02-27-2011, 12:28 PM
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#1
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: San Carlos, CA 94070
Posts: 1,450
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jake Raby
Track related M96 engine failures are not entirely dependent upon high speed cornering and the associated G forces.
Oil that cannot take exceptionally high temperatures without losing its ability to maintain pressure is the single biggest element that we have seen. Oil temperatures of m96 engines can exceed 250F and at that point off the shelf oils lose their ability to maintain pressure. In this scenario the G forces further aggrevate the pressure issues and appear to be the culprint, when they are really just a part of it.
All the issues we have experienced with the M96 failing on the track due to oil pressure issues have been experienced at the end of sessions when the oil is heated exceptionally. I haven't talked to a single person who experienced a failure in the early laps of a DE or track event, only after the oil is heat soaked and thin. In my personal 996 equipped with an accusump I noted this with my data acquisition system on track at Road Atlanta where turn 1 and turn 7 were the worst for oil pressure, but only after the oil temps were eleveated and the session was 3/4 over. That was with coilovers all around and sticky tires.
Just something to consider.. The accu-sump does help a lot. We do not have on- track issues these days, even without an X 51 pan and other measures that are commonly applied to overcome what appears to be the root of the issue.
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Thank you VERY MUCH for this explanation
So for people like me who track their cars regularly what oil and probably more important what oil weight would you reccomend
Especially for people who live in hot climates in the summer and don't have to worry about cold temperatures (I am happy to put in a different oil during the off-track (cold) season)
__________________
I still wave at Boxsters, but they no longer wave back :-(
2002 Boxster S "Violet" (sold but not forgotten)
2009 Carrera 4S "Kelsey" (current ride)
2015 FIAT 500e "Nikki" my commuter car
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02-27-2011, 05:07 PM
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#2
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Engine Surgeon
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Cleveland GA USA
Posts: 2,425
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The only oil we have experienced that will stay alive at these temperatures has an additive package thats depleted after only 750 miles of service.. It has to be changed every 750 miles, or generally after just one track weekend.
Thats the problem.. True race oils are exactly that, they have no lifespan.
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Jake Raby/www.flat6innovations.com
IMS Solution/ Faultless Tool Inventor
US Patent 8,992,089 &
US Patent 9,416,697
Developer of The IMS Retrofit Procedure- M96/ M97 Specialist
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02-27-2011, 08:32 PM
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#3
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: San Carlos, CA 94070
Posts: 1,450
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jake Raby
The only oil we have experienced that will stay alive at these temperatures has an additive package thats depleted after only 750 miles of service.. It has to be changed every 750 miles, or generally after just one track weekend.
Thats the problem.. True race oils are exactly that, they have no lifespan.
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OK, so I'll add an oil change to the list of things (bleed brakes, change pads, install rollbar, etc.) to the list of things before a track day - I can live with that
What oil is it?
__________________
I still wave at Boxsters, but they no longer wave back :-(
2002 Boxster S "Violet" (sold but not forgotten)
2009 Carrera 4S "Kelsey" (current ride)
2015 FIAT 500e "Nikki" my commuter car
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02-28-2011, 10:24 AM
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#4
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: toronto
Posts: 2,668
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jake Raby
The only oil we have experienced that will stay alive at these temperatures has an additive package thats depleted after only 750 miles of service.. It has to be changed every 750 miles, or generally after just one track weekend.
Thats the problem.. True race oils are exactly that, they have no lifespan.
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Jake. Very interseting stuff. Is there a theory as to what exact mechanism is causing the loss of oil pressure at elevated temperatures? It is not entirely clear me unless it has to do with oil pump efficiencies/effectiveness under less viscous conditions. Would your transducer placement potentially play a role in the trends you see ?'
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986 00S
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03-06-2011, 08:29 AM
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#5
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 1,820
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quick update:
byron blew his motor at barber yesterday.......three laps in.
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03-06-2011, 08:40 AM
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#6
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Chicago suburbs
Posts: 1,675
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Guess the accusump didn't help much...
Sorry to hear another died.
__________________
JGM
2002 Boxster S
1973 911 Green FrankenMeanie
PCA DE Instructor circa '95
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03-06-2011, 08:49 AM
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#7
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: San Carlos, CA 94070
Posts: 1,450
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by insite
quick update:
byron blew his motor at barber yesterday.......three laps in.
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SERIOUSLY? 
__________________
I still wave at Boxsters, but they no longer wave back :-(
2002 Boxster S "Violet" (sold but not forgotten)
2009 Carrera 4S "Kelsey" (current ride)
2015 FIAT 500e "Nikki" my commuter car
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03-06-2011, 12:50 PM
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#8
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Carnut
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Utah
Posts: 775
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by ChrisZang
SERIOUSLY? |
Say WHAT??!!
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'14 Boxster
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03-06-2011, 05:49 PM
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#9
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 1,820
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seriously. it still turns over & will run, but it bangs & clatters. weird that it happened right off the bat.
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