Why do I need an S and what year
 

I want a used Boxster and am on a limited budget. I would like to spend around $20,000.

I was told to absolutely get the S for the performance and absolutely get a 2003 or later. What do you experienced owners think? Are these important? I do like as much performance I can get from a stock car. But does the S matter that much and why a 2003?
Steve

Steve, never buy a Porsche on a "budget". It's a toy. No one needs a Porsche. Pay cash, and don't finance your purchase.

At the very most you only have about $18K to spend, more like $15K if you are conservative. Why? Because you need to keep back about $2-5K for sorting out your new purchase. Things like tires, updating maintenance, insurance, catching the mod bug. You don't want to become Porsche rich and cash poor. A quality PPI will catch a lot of stuff.....but not everything. You don't want buyers remorse.

Why an "S"? Lots of reasons. Sure more HP. And if you buy a base, and then want more HP's, they are very expen$ive to "add on" and suspect at best.

What do you plan to do with the car? Daily driver? First Porsche? What is your prior sports car experience? Do you do your own maintenance? Is your 401K fully funded? Are your children's college funds fully funded?

Have your house in order, and have fun on your planned purchase.:)

Why an "S" ?
 

Well said, Flavor987S .. these words of wisdom hopefully will guide Stephan to make a responsible decision on his desire to own one of the best sports car in the planet.
An "S" aside from the added horsepower and torque, especially 03' and up comes with the rear glass instead of the previous plastic.
So if the house is in order, go for the hunt and make sure you buy the best condition/optioned/history of maintenance, and make sure you set aside $$fund for maintenance and repairs... like Flavor 987S said, if you are in a tight budget, this car is not for you... but if you can afford one, you would'nt regret owning and driving one...
Good luck..
thank you,
t2

I absolutely agree with all of what Flavor 987S has to say with one exception. Financing isn't all bad, provided that you find a car below market value that you can sell for what you owe throughout the loan, and that you plan to keep the car long after the loan is paid.
As to the "S" question, I've never heard an "S" owner wishing he/she had a base, but there are plenty of folks with the base who wish they had thrown out a bit more for the "S".
As to year, Porsche certainly made each successive year a bit improved over the previous, but in the 986 series, the differences from 2000 - 20004 are not staggering.
One of the best suggestions out there is to find a car with at least 60,000 miles and good documentation of the service. Oil changes should be every 5000 miles!!
The most important question is probably how you are going to use the car. If it's just for top down, pleasure driving, PCA tours, fun rides with the spouse/SO, a well optioned base Boxster would be fine, and probably a bit cheaper primarily because of the tire sizing.
...but, if you have track, DE, autocross, spirited-driving-beyond-the-legal-limits aspirations, or the modification bug, you'll end up with "base-buyer's remorse"

Why I want Porsche and answers to questions
 

Thanks to everyone for their advice and suggestions. I have had 44 cars, not many next to some folks. 3 MINI Cooper S's, one John Cooper Works, a Lotus 7 variant, a modified Miata, and my current daily driver is a 2001 M3. I am just looking for a traditional sports car feel close to the ground, for weekend driving and some short trips. Maybe I'd track it once or twice just to push the limits up to where I am nervous. I am 68 and don't have the vision or reflexes I had as a kid so I would just take the driver's course and enjoy the track for the thrill very rarely. Mostly a weekend car. I have the M3 daily except for snow and ice. Its mostly the low to the ground feel and handling I guess. I have absolutely no mechanical skills and that can be a problem and expensive. That's what happened on the Lotus 7, which always require tinkering. You have to be an engineer or mechanic to own one of those. The Miata was perfect and perfectly reliable, economical, and boring. The MINI convertibles had very poor rear visibility and my wife hated that. I am perfectly content with the M3, so it isn't just performance I want but the Boxster class of car. I have never owned a Porsche. My brother has a 2001 all wheel drive twin turbo 911 and is urging me to try a Porsche. I am also comparing to a Honda S2000.
Short story long. steve

Hi Steve!

Looks like a non S Boxster is just fine. People always say you'd look at more power after a while etc etc etc but the base Boxster is a fine vehicle as is. I drove several of those and the fun part is not diminished by "less power". Remember to drive a "slow" car fast can be more fun than driving a fast car slow.
Now, I have an S but that just happened, my car fell into my lap so-to-say and I am very happy. I also do track days all the time and I also mod it and tinker with it, perfect! But that's just me....

For 20 you'll get a really nice Boxster, no question, good luck hunting and do a PPI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Later,
Andy

Steve, get in an 03+ model and operate the top a couple of times. Then get in an older boxster and operate the top, being sure to get out, chop the plastic top so it doesn't crack, and get back in the car to complete the top down cycle. Now think about doing this every single time you want to drop the top.

BTW, if it's cooler than 40 degrees outside, forget about raising or lowering the top on an older model with a plastic window until it warms up or you put the car in a heated garage for a number of hours.

That's why you want an 03 or younger car. That glass window is really valuable. The plastic window WILL crack eventually if you don't chop it and keep it maintained with Plexus ... and it will cost your hundreds to replace the window or a grand or more to replace the top.

Of course, you can retrofit older cars with a tiny glass window top that hinders full engine access, but most find this something they do because they've already made their boxster purchase and can't afford to or do not want to trade up to a newer model for this reason alone.

The S motor HP bump in your situation seems like a no brainer considering you've driven an M3. The base model will just feel totally underpowered to you unless you're in an 2010 based model boxster, and even then it might feel underpowered.

Drive a base and S and you'll see what we mean. I sure wish I'd waited to buy an 03S. It would have been sooooo worth the delay.

I know I'm late to the thread, but I would go for an S variant because the '00 to '04's basically have all the 911 goodies of the era installed minus the larger 3.4 or 3.6 engines.

Porsche specifically left the larger displacement engines out of the boxster platform due to it becoming a 911 killer. The 3.2 is no slouch in stock format and if you did put some tasteful mods on it like I have, I promise you will love it even more.

I do not mind my plastic back window on my '01 at all. Sure it can be a little bit of a pain to lower the top when the car is a bit cold in the spring or late fall, but once the plastic has become warm after sitting in the sun, I have no worries allowing the top to drop without the infamous "chop" routine...A while ago, I purchased a Smartop device and it was one of the best purchases ever. This allows you to "one touch" the button and the top drops or raises without having to keep the button depressed manually the whole time. Buy a can of Plexus and your golden for keeping the plastic virtually new.

As far as good cars out there, I wouldn't go for a car with high mileage at all....Why, you just don't know how the car's been treated and you face a much more worn out interior / exterior parts.

Call me crazy, but I like pristine models that are as close to perfect as can be with low mileage and not much wear. Mine has just over 20k on it now and I can attest that if I ever sold it, the next Owner would get one hell of a deal.

One discussion on this site you will see over and over is the dreaded engine failure issue known as the IMS. For under 4000, you can have this completely remedied or you can take your chances like me.

My car is a 3rd car toy and only driven on awesome days / nights. If my engine blows, I will put in a larger displacement engine from one of the site sponsors down in Georgia. It's an expensive proposition at around 20k, but I plan on keeping the car for a long time unless some great deal falls in my lap on a new one....and then I still may keep my S due to shear fun factor..

Honestly, I look at my car everyday and even though it's basically 10 years old, its lines still are fresh and appealing. I think the 986 models are extremely clean looking and super agile on the road. Who knows what values they may bring in the long term, but whether it's zero or not, I have more fun on back country roads in this car than I have in any other machine I've driven...And I've driven alot of them.

And by the way....an S model has alot more room than an S2000 Honda, plus it will walk all over it!

Owned both a '99 base and an '01S
 

And had as much fun in the base as in the S. I'm 67 and my reflexes are only marginal.

I distilled what I learned buying both cars and reading the forums for others good ideas into a series of articles on buying a Boxster. You'll learn the good and the bad, model year differences, etc http://sites.google.com/site/mikefocke2/mikesporscheboxsterwebpages

I bought the S only because I totaled my '99 and the insurance settlement combined with the right time of year gave me the cash to buy the '01S. Both cars have been wonderfully reliable.

The one advantage the base has is fewer gears (5 versus the 6 of the S). That and you can put your foot into it longer and harder than you can the S which is a bigger displacement.

Yes every year had improvements, but how important are they going to be in a toy car versus a daily driver. Especially if you are going to be making compromises in your budget for the car. I can see you getting a '01S for $16.5 and a '01 base for $14 if bought right. Add in the best tires at $1.2k or slightly less at $.8k and you have a reserve for anything that can come up. Since you aren't doing work yourself (I do some, farm out others and visit the dealer when only their tools and expertise will do) it is important to have a reserve..these are older cars...even an '03 will be 8-9 years from build.

My '01 cost me an oil change ($120) and tires ($1100) this year. It is in need of a brake fluid flush and a water pump replacement just because of age. The prior year it cost me nothing but gas. Over 5 years, more reliable than my Honda or Acura...better mileage too!

After 5+ years, the way I feel about mine is exemplified in the way I love to go to the grocery store for my wife. She knows it will take a long time because I'm bound to be going to the one on the far side of town and taking the way that winds through rural roads. Got the car out yesterday when the temperatures climbed to 42.

What to ask for to avoid big expenses.
 

I've looked at the numerous threads and I guess I am worried about the price of an engine and other major components if a used car fails. Anything special to look for in service records or visually to avoid major fatal costs after initial purchase?

Drive a few and see what you think. I currently drive a mostly stock first gen. 2.5L Boxster and still love the car after 5 years of ownership. All variants have pluses and minuses. With 92k miles my car still runs like new and drives great. I think the 2.5 has the sweetest exhaust note, the best gear ratios and I dislike the plastic rear window. I have driven it pretty fast (135mph at the track ) and really have no need to go faster in a street car.

If my car was totaled today I would shop for another one. I would be pressed between trying an 03-04 Box S or a newer Cay S PDK. I don't really need more power but life is short. So many cars, so little time.

Updated IMS bearing retrofit, and regular oil changes every 5k miles are a biggie. I tend to prefer 1 owner cars that were driven and serviced regularly rather than garage queens.

I love my 00 S and have no problem being Porsche rich and cash poor. I love cars and decided I wanted to own something nice while being young so I pulled the trigger on one last year. Financially it wasnt the smartest thing to do but, I'm not worried about it.

Look at it this way...if it looks like it's been coursed or hot dogged, walk away. Look for one with no more than 60K miles on it if it's your toy. A daily driver would have 20-30K on it with no mods. A one owner with a service history is a big positive but does not guarantee any future problems. I personally like the TIP which translate in less money being spent on clutch, RMS or IMS. TIP owners seem to have less expenses on their ownership over, say 5 years. Mine, pictured here in this email had 62k on it, one owner, absolutely well taken care of and the previous owner was a PCA member. I new I would spend a least $2K on it to do the things a 60K P-car needed and it has only cost me $1500 to take care of the maintenance with $800 being spent on new tires. Do not buy because it's cheap...to me that means this one is costing the owner a lot of money or a lot needs to be spent on it. Buyer beware, always. :cheers:

Let us know how this plays out for you in about another 20-30 years! :)

I'm in the same position as you and I am shopping for Boxster #4. I can speak first hand of S envy when I bought my first one, a 99 base. Although I do not push the car to it's limits, I just like knowing I have the S version. I'm not terribly concerned with resale or 0-60 times but when I had the base I was always thinking of getting an S. Once I got my 01 S I never really thought about "upgrading." I really enjoyed the car, had zero issues and drove it as much as possible. Right now I am searching for the best bang for the buck and find myself looking at 986 cars. For me, I am looking 02-04. I Find the 04's too much $$ and only one year before the model change to 987. I like the 987's but can't justify the price difference between a 986 and 987 for how I am going to use the car. If I get a 986, 02/03 S and want to "upgrade" it will be next summer and the 987's will be a bit less money at that point. Sure I would love an 09 S but $46K doesn't work for me right now. I have a feeling an 02/03 S is where I will land. It'll be blk/blk or blk/tan and a 6sp manual. Options.....xenon, Bose and heated seats. Anything extra will be a bonus. I am hoping a 40K mile or less car can be had for $17000-18,500.

Good luck in the search.

John

No worries here. What fun would life be if we only did what we were supposed to do? I applaud young Jake for pulling the trigger on a Porsche. I waited until I was 50 before I got mine. And it's 100% financed, along with my 100% financed Harley Softail and Kawasaki Ninja. Nope, not the smartest thing to do and perhaps a bit foolish, but I wasn't getting any younger.

Up here in Seattle, the season for these toys is over, but I get a big grin when I open the garage and say good night to them every night.


Oh, and back to the OP. Mine's an '03 base (got the '03 for the glass window) but I wish I would have got the S. If you're gonna have a sports car, it might as well perform like a sports car. JMHO

I've been eye balling this Carrera 2008 S.....http://orlando.craigslist.org/ctd/2100411403.html

**************** if I live that long spending 16gs on a Porsche will be the least of my worries. Everyone thinks because its a Porsche it means its super expensive..... especially girls. I find it best to just take them for rides and not to correct them or tell them how much I paid for it...

Since you won't be doing the regular maintenance yourself, you may want to look into Porsche clubs in your area to see if anyone would be willing to help you out. Oil changes, replacing brakes, and air filters are pretty easy on this car and not outrageous cost wise.

There's a whole tread that's given to engine failure but my '01 Box (not an S) hasn't seen one day in the mechanics shop since I've done all the regularly scheduled maintenance myself. I LOVE how reliable this car is and it's my daily driver.

Good luck in your search!

One more thing...
Now that the economy is in the pits, people are more willing to let go of their "toys/Boxsters" for much less than blue book. I'm sure good deals are out there to be had.

Isn't it odd that Jake says a TIP is both more likely to have an IMS problem and is more expensive to have an IMSR. (Yes, I own a TIP>)

I would say at least 9 out of 10 IMS failures where with standards than autos on this forum......?????

If I were buying now, I'd hit the Porsche dealerships to see the inventory of CPO Boxsters. I paid $25K for my '03 - with just 22K miles - in September of 08, and I suspect there are more deals today than a couple of years ago.

You'll pay more for CPO with a warranty than you would private-party. Mine cost about $3K more than a comparable private party car. Peace of mind for $1,500 a year... I was willing to pay it.

Other Factors You May Not Have Considered
 

++++++

1) If you are mostly driving to the mall on city streets and at semi-legal speeds on the interstate, or if you're out in the twisties behind an old pickup truck driving 45 mph, the base model is just as fast as an "S." In fact, an old Toyota Corolla is nearly as fast, costs less, and probably is more reliable.

2) If your wife insists on riding with you and then gets after you to slow down all the time, the base model is a better choice ... unless of course you are actively seeking divorce.

3) The dude in the next lane in the Corvette at the stop light is still going to outrace you when the light turns green, no matter which model you buy -- unless you are committed to spending several thousand dollars more to buy a bunch of speed equipment, that will void your warranty and probably make your car blow up.

4) The general public doesn't know the difference between an "S" and a base model. The base model lets you have the prestige of driving a "Porsh" for a much lower cost. Within this community, the base is the Rodney Dangerfield of Porsches.

5) If you never drive an "S," you can't miss what you never had. Ignorance is bliss.

Judging from the list of cars you have owned and your statement that the Miata was perfect just boring (which to me says underpowered) than you should go with an S. You could not mod a base to the level of an S for anywhere near the extra couple thousand you would have to pay to get an S over a base. More HP, better suspension, better brakes and more tire.

Over here, if you're caught speeding 50km/h (31mph) over the speed limit the police can tow your vehicle on the spot and suspend your license for 7 days.

Mind you also the 6 speed have weak second gear synchros. That's actually more likely to fail down the line than getting IMS failure.

http://www.986forum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20078

very well said

For some people the extra HP with the "S" is important (although mostly psychological). I've driven both and for normal daily driving either would be fine. It's just not that big of a difference in most driving cases. IMO the biggie is to find a car with a good service history and about 50k to 60k miles or so. Whether "S" or base I wouldn't care but it needs to have a history of responsible ownership. At my age collecting horsepower isn't as much a priority as it had been 20 years ago.

As for years to look at, I personally like the looks of the 986 better than 987 but that's me. I would stay away from the 99's and older. They seem to have more problems.

Steve

I did a car swap with one of my friends and here what I felt:
Cars: Mine is 2000 Base, 70K, has 18" wheels and 997 shifter
Friends car: 2001 S 55K, has a factory package with PSE (not sure what it includes) 18" wheels

We swapped cars for 2 days, both cars are daily drivers, no performance upgrades.
My impressions:
First day I was impressed! S has more low end torque (under 3k rpm) and is getting speed faster, It's noticeable stiffer which was really nice on Highway ramps, 1st gear is shorter so I didn't have to downshift to 1st when traffic was slowing down to 10mph. (with 5 speed 10mph is about 1.2Krpm which is bad for IMS:))

The not so good:
- S is stiffer and it get's annoying after 1st day especially with "smooth" seattle roads.
- Maybe I'm used to 5 speed but it seems that I had to shift a lot between 2-3-4th gears it's easier with 5 speed
- S still "feels like a porsche" only after 3.5-4K RPMs, and after 4K RPMs base feels just the same (I didn't feel any difference)
- S is speeding faster and I missed that "I'm accelerating" feeling
- PSE is LOUD, and S in general is feeling louder (even tire noise)
- 997 shifter is a MUST!
- starting from a green light is kinda the same unless you rev the engine, which is fun but you cann't do it every time, clutch costs a lot.
- White gauges are very distracting:)

Again it's my daily driver, I don't track it so after driving S for 2 days I'm over "should've bought ans S" feeling.
My friend paid almost twice the price for his car (mine was 9k, his 17k)
Would I buy an "S" if I had the chance? YES because I'm still young and I want anything faster bigger better... would I pay more then a couple of grands for it.. definetely NO

Funny thing: my friend told me that he hates how stiff his car is after driving my base:)

Thanks
Sasha

Thanks sasha very well stated. You have now solidified that I will get an S. I will live with days on end of getting bounced around on city streets to enjoy the performance of the stiffer suspension on the open road, on-ramps and the track.

According to Mikefocke's website...

Under 2003 changes:
Base model gets same suspension as 2002 S model.

Regarding suspension "harshness", I found that tyre type and pressure are critical to comfort & roadholding - more so than the technical differences between base & S suspension.
Top quality tyres like Michelin Pilot PP2's with relatively soft sidewalls ride far superior on a Boxster compared to cheaper stiffer walled tyres like Khumo or Goodyear.
On the technical side of the S equation, don't rule out the value of the bigger brakes (Brembo monoblocks) and cross drilled rotors, coupled with an extra coolant radiator in the nose plus a bigger water/oil heat exchanger.
These mods alone are worth a lot of kudus & smack of upgraded "sports car" type performance above the base model......

S downsides....
 

I'm surprised someone hasn't mentioned some:

cost of tires on larger diameter wheels

frequency of CV joint boot failures on 6 speed cars (versus 5-speed or TIP)

Why do 6 speeds have a higher CVJ boot failure?

my previous car was a Miata. I changed the shocks/springs twice (KYBs were awesome for that car, Tokis not so much), shock mounts in the rear for more travel, BBS wheels, exhaust, ceramic headers, intake, full aero package, low profile headlights, glass top, MP3 CD player (a big deal in 1998) and a prsitine hard top.
Selling that car was a dumb move but having two roadsters seemed excessive. I should have kept it as an autocrosser. At any rate that car had the shifter kart for the road feel about it that the Boxster does not have. The Boxster feels more like a full sized sports car, that sits higher and dupes you into thinking you aren't really going so fast. The Miata really let you know how fast you were going because it was a tin can. I'm sure the Lotus has a similar feel. To tell you the truth I had a lot more fun driving one of the newer Mini Coopers than the Boxster S.
You just don't interact with the gear box in the same way with the Porsche.
But for power over 200 HP and real world practicality the Boxster still sets the bar amongst roadsters. The S2000 was a most excellent car as well but looked a little generic to me and seat position was kinda awkward for me. I knew a guy who raced in some junior formulas against one of the big F1 stars and when I arrived with the Boxster S he was more excited than I was. He said this car does everything perfectly and would have been his first choice but settled on an S2000 instead because he feared the upkeep of a car that would be tracked/autox'd.

I'd wait for the 3.4 Boxsters to come down in price. Which given the way this economy is moving shouldn't be that long. I'm not crazy about 987 styling but there is no debating the egineering and reliability improvements. If I could retrofit real retractcable soft top (minust the motor) using ball bearings and a manual pull to a Boxster Spyder I'd be all over that.

I believe the drive shafts are mounted at a more acute angle on the six speeder compared with the 5 speed.
Mine had to be replaced at 40,000 miles because 2 were already split and 2 had started de-laminating.

Thanks Steve, that's interesting. I've had to replace two of mine at around 40k miles also. I never considered the 6-spd transaxle would put the axles at a different angle than others.

Back to what I think is the crux of the matter - S versus Non-S on a tight budget - I'd still go with a CPO non-S instead of a private-party S.

If you're going to take your Boxster to the drag strip, it won't matter anyway. If you're going to take it to the autocross, buy the S (it'll be faster and you'll be voiding your warranty anyway if the dealer finds out the car was tracked). If you want an awesome car with the peace of mind that you won't be on the hook for 12 grand if your motor grenades 6 months from now, buy the CPO non-S.

My other coupe is a 96 C4 with an LT1. My Corvette Jedi mechanic and I have tinkered to the point where it's now making 350+ HP at the wheels, I've gutted some weight out of it to bring it close to the 986's weight, and with the Dana 44 3.73 rear end, it is a rocket. At the drag strip, hooking up is a challenge, and if I don't back off on the 1-2 shift, I'll waste a second or two doing a second burnout. But the Boxster, even with roughly half the WHP, is a much more fun car, and I drive it more agressively than I do the Vette because it is more capable and predictable.

So anyway, I ramble. You won't want to kill yourself 6 months from now if you buy a non-S instead of an S, but if you are the proud owner of a rolling chassis six months from now because you bought Tom Slick's ragged-out S... well... :ah:

by the way to the OP,
if you decide on a 986S or a 987 with the 3.2 or 3.4...just my opinion, but a car at this curb weight needs at least 240 HP. But it this way, at under 240 it's all driver. At 240'ish it's a even mix of driver and engine. At over 300 its most the car doing the work. Coming out of turns under braking the mid egine set up "comes alive" if you will with 240 HP. Even the S2000 despite their torque issues, well the early ones at least, and their engines sitting just behind the front shock mounts, still benefited greatly from this amount of power. I'm sure the engineers at Honda tinkered with different outputs to arrive at this sweet spot on power. If you recall that car was well received right out of the box while many had some issues with the original Boxster coming in under 240 HP at first.

In terms of real world practicality, having 240 HP (or whatever that translates at the wheels) is very useful in merging on highways and overtaking some of these minivans and cross overs with surprisingly big engines that always seem to be in the way or doing parallels with each other on the highway.

Finally bought a Boxster S
 

After much study I just bought a 2002 Boxster S in Speed Yellow with manual transmission and 50K miles for $17,000.00. The was first checked out for me by a Porsche only mechanic. There aren't many options on this one but I don't care. Sorry no PSM but I'm a conservative driver anyway. Tires are new, top is fine, clutch is new, rear shaft seal has been fixed, etc. Pretty much not a scratch on the exterior. Seats are perfect.

Love the car. Really enjoying it.

Would like a stereo that has bluetooth and iphone /ipod connection.

Also would like to pull out the cd trays and put a cubby in there.

Any ideas?