I know for safety concerns it's not good to coast down hills, but I'm curious, how is it bad for the gearbox?
Thanks.

Huh? Teaching a new driver should include giving them as few unnecessary distractions as possible. Fiddling with gas and clutch while trying to deal with traffic, lights, etc is not going to get a newby confident and safe as quickly as possible. Sure, once they're comfortable on the road, if you feel the need to take a chance on damaging your manual car during the learning process, go for it.

Please tell us how they did this before there is automatic transmission? My god think of the children.

While coasting downhill is something I don't do very often, in my mind it's not necessarily a cardinal sin per se. When you're in gear, you have a little better feel for what the car's gonna do: push the accelerator, it's going to speed up; let off the accelerator, you're going to get a little engine braking, slowing you a bit (or at least decreasing your gravity-driven acceleration, depending on what gear you are in and how steep the hill is).

I guess you could make the argument that you might "lose valuable seconds" getting back in gear if something unexpected occurs but, in my experience, that's almost never a factor when evading a problem. When such a 'surprise' happens, my first impulse is to either steer around it or utilize the brakes, often a combo of the two. Occasionally I'll accelerate to remedy such a condition, but that's pretty unusual. And when it does occur, it tends be in situations where you have those few seconds in which to get the car back in gear and then react. In my experience, it's rarely (if ever) a split-second emergency where instant ability to accelerate is required.

If I am coasting and then need to get the car back into gear, I'll do the rev-match thing when going from neutral to whatever gear I'm going into, and then again as I release the clutch so I don't get that 'chirp' at the wheels and overly jolt the drivetrain. That does take some practice.

The problem with coasting downhill, especially steep hills, is that you're in kind of a "freefall" mode, and you may well end up traveling faster than you want to be going for conditions. Unless, of course, you're riding the brakes, which is also not ideal. Like I said, I don't do it very often. But I will occasionally, normally in those situations where I see that I'm going to need to stop not too far down the road and that it's extremely unlikely I'll need to get it back into any gear other than first once I've come to a stop. An example is if I'm at a fairly slow speed and I'm coming to a red light on a gentle downhill slope. No big deal.

My god how did we drive our Pcars before the wheel was invented?

Clickman Please don't take this wrong but...Oh my goodness did you think at all before writing this. You talk like I put my kid in the car in downtown rush hour traffic and said "Go for it kid" They both started in a big empty parking lot learning to be semi-proficient with their start and stoping skills. Than I take them into a commerical area where they can practice on streets with no traffic. This way they are as safe as possible while gaining confidence. And how in the world are they going to damage my car learning to drive it. I drive the piss out of my car and have over 200,000 miles on it. I'm sure all those thousands of hours of driving plus all the autocrossing and track time I have put on my car have been alot more punishing on the mechanicals than the few short weeks it takes my two boys to learn. This whole time I am riding with them ready to give them any advice they may need when they need it. I love spending this time with my kids and it is something I hope they remember just as I remember learning to drive in a 68 beetle as a 14 year old way back in good old 1979. Although my mom was the one teaching because my dad just did not have the patience. Peace dude.

If you can't heel and toe, then you can't execute a smooth downshift and brake at the same time. This is a simple fact.

If you are changing down off the brakes / coasting, you'll still need an accurate throttle blip. In fact, I reckon that's the best way to begin learning heel and toe - get completely comfortable with blipping the throttle to match revs on a coastdown change or when changing down for an overtake.

Coasting
 

It is illegal to coast in neutral downhill in Seattle also.

Seattle Municiple Traffic Code 11.58.010
(1) The driver of any motor vehicle when traveling upon a down grade shall not coast with the gears of such vehicle in neutral.

Yeah, but how often you suppose THAT gets enforced?? (Right up there with prohibitions against jaywalking and expectorating in public.) :rolleyes:

Lotsa pointless, often silly, laws on the books that have been LONG ago forgotten and virtually never enforced.

Only when Sasha innocently says to the officer, "I was coasting down the hill and he / she backed out and hit me." Then it gets enforced and Sasha's responsiblity ratchets up because of the citation.


Gosh, I just didn't realize all my downshifts for the last 36 yrs were bad. :eek:

Vijen6,
My only thoughts about getting into 1st easier is to brings the RPM up a little before trying to put it back in gear. 1st is the hardest gear to rev.-match, because the RPM changes so quickly with road speed.

Sasha,
You can heel & toe with a single clutch motion, instead of a double-clutch. The RPM blip while the clutch is in just has to be slightly higher. I use both techniques, but the double-clutch is generally smoother, especially when changing down to 2nd or 1st gear, for the reasons mentioned above.

Hunker,
How do you downshift w/o H&T ? I assume you just release the clutch slowly and let the tires/drivetrain "pull" the engine up to the required RPM?

Steve

Sorry, don't buy it. It's experience in the action of traffic that counts, not in a parking lot or empty streets.
BTW you have an interesting way of seeking "peace" (dude), by asking someone if they think at all before writing. I can't think of a much more insulting comment to make to someone that participates in a forum.

I have no idea how you could drive on the street or track without rev-matching your downshifts...it's all second nature and I don't even think about it. When I drive with someone who doesn't understand rev-matching, it's always "herky-jerky" and never smooth...just think what the drive train is experiencing?

Quote: Only when Sasha innocently says to the officer, "I was coasting down the hill and he / she backed out and hit me." Then it gets enforced and Sasha's responsiblity ratchets up because of the citation.

Originally posted by husker boxster

Don't listen to him Sasha, just use some common sense. First off, when someone backs onto a road with traffic and hits a vehicle already traveling on that road, the responding cop is going to be pretty busy writing up the failure to yield ticket for the person who was clearly at fault in causing the accident (ie the backer). Secondly, when involved in an accident, you never offer unnecessary info, only the very basics---especially self-exculpatory stuff. Not "I was coasting down the hill when this guy backed into me" but "I was driving down the hill when this guy backed into me." It's a truthful statement but doesn't cloud the issues with superfluous (and irrelevant) details.

I suspect, unless he's a jerk or you bad-mouth him, most law enforcement officers wouldn't even write you up for "coasting", even if you were to offer up such information. It's just so obvious that THAT had NOTHING to do with a collision with somebody negligently backing into traffic.