"how to drive a stick" question
 

It's been almost a year since I got my new baby and I still have a feeling that I'm not driving it right..
Last time I drove a stick was 15 years ago and it was my dad's car and it was 15yo at that time:)

Do you guys press clutch when braking?
Do you put the car in neutral when going downhill?

It seems that I can never match the speed when shifting in 1st or 2nd from neutral.
It's pretty smooth when I got from one gear to another, but if I put it in neutral when going downhill and the try to shift in lower gear (1,2,3) I always get that pinch.. it's never smooth.

Any tips for "how to drive a stick" ?

Thanks
Sasha

I hope you're joking about putting the car in neutral when you go downhill and then trying to put it back in gear. Because, you should never, ever, never do that. And, again, if you're not joking, you do not push the clutch every time you brake. Only push the clutch when coming to a complete stop, or when shifting.
My suggestion is to get with someone who drives a stick every day and let them ride with you and give you some instructions.

I'm not joking.. that's how I was tought to drive a stick back then.. it was the right thing to do for the car I was driving back home..
It feels wrong on boxster... that's why I'm asking.

Thanks
Sasha

PS: It seems that here in US not many people are driving stick... from all the people I know here, I'm the only one that drives a stick.

Sasha you should just go out and drive when you have nowhere to go or no place to be. Focus your attention on how the car feels, sounds and responds to different things that you try in it. In a manual car you have to think about what the car is doing to determine what gear you need to be in. There is nothing wrong with putting the car in nuetral on a down hill but if you are going 70 mph at the end of the hill than you should put the car back into the appropriate gear. In a boxster five speed that would be fifth gear at 70. You also need to rev-match the engine. As you have been rolling along on the downhill in nuetral your cars engine has slowed to idle speed. So if you go from nuetral to 5th gear at 70 when you release the clutch the engine will not be turning at the same speed as the gears in the transmission thus you would get the "pinch" or jerk you are talking about. But if you bring the engine speed up as you let out on the clutch than the transition will be smooth. Practice makes perfect.

Never try to put the car into to low of a gear without rev-matching the engine to the cars speed. doing so is hard on your car and can in some cases cause a spin.

Did you learn to drive on a Trabant or a Skoda? Probably the only cars you will find in the US with a manual transmission will be sports cars. And, many of those are going to automatics. When I lived in Germany and bought my first Porsche in 1981 you could not get a 911 with an automatic.

Stick with it Sasha. It is worth the effort. The joy of driving a manual car is something to behold, most certainly in a Boxster! Both of my boys had to learn to drive in a manual. I would not let them drive an automatic until they were proficient at driving a stick. I wanted it to "stick" with them; to be their first memory of driving. Thomas is learning right now and he is practicing at night when he cannot see his feet. Keeps him from looking down at the pedals. But then I can't see his feet either. He has yet to kill the car when comming to a stop. Last night I figured out why when he told me he was pushing in the clutch everytime he used the brake. He now knows that he only needs to use the clutch when shifting not when braking.

If you're jerking the car (no pun intended) then that means you're not shifting properly.

You need to rev match when downshifting or shift into gear from neutral at speed.

Search on youtube on "double clutching" and "heel and toe".

The only time that you would press both the clutch and brake pedals are when you're doing an emergency stop.

Yeah you're not driving if you have an auto. I learn that when I got this car.

It wasn't a skoda.. it was a Lada:)

I love stick.. (that didn't sound right..)
I started driving stick when I was 13.. at 26 I moved to US, and bought a auto (I actually never saw automatic transmission car before moving to US)

I'll look into heel&toe videos.
I tried different styles of driving but it's hard to break old habbits.
Back home it was a rule to put it in neutral when going downhill.. I actually stopped the engine if the hill was longer to save gas. and when braking I always push clutch first.. it's an instinct.

Thanks
Sasha

The whole putting car in neutral to save gas thing no longer applies when electronic fuel injection engines became popular.

Just watched the videos of "heel toe" and double clutching..

Double clutching feels like an overkill can't I rev a bit angine while I press clutch the first time?
"Heel toe" technique should be a sticky page in here.. it's priceless

Sasha

The only time that you should heel-toe is when you are driving the car at it's full potential. Race car drivers and people who drive HSTs heel-toe because they wait until the last second to brake for a turn. They never coast. It is gas or brake. And when you are trying to get into a corner fast while braking and shifting you need an extra leg for the accelorator pedal to rev match. So you use your heel. This is an advanced driving technique and should not be used on the street, in most cases. :p

I don't think that's true. You can slow down with your foot on the brake before doing heel and toe.

From the experts at NPR's Car Talk.
http://www.cartalk.com/content/stick-shift/index.html

Your'e right Ekam I heel-toe on the street to practice muscle memory you just really need to be aware of your driving style while doing it and don't let it get to aggresssive. You can really freak people out when you come off an intersection turn at speed into the lane beside them. Going the same speed they are going in a straight line.

Nonsense. Heel and toe is a perfectly legitimate way to drive on the street. In fact, it's the only way to drive if you want to drive smoothly and in full control. You certainly don't need to be anywhere near the limit to do it or to benefit from it. Heel and toe is not actually about getting into corners fast, it's about matching road speed and engine speed. It also just happens to reduce wear on the clutch.

As stated earlier, never, ever coast down a hill in neutral. If an emergency presents itself, you'll lose valuable seconds fumbling to get it back in the proper gear. By that time you could be fender deep in an accident. You always need to drive defensively, and coasting is not defensive driving.

You can also smoothly downshift without H-T, it just takes practice. The good news is you get to practice while driving a Box. Have fun.

Slightly off topic, 1 constant issue I have is when I'm coasting to a stop in traffic, and the traffic picks up again. I'm at 4-6 mph in neutral. I cant get the gear to first and its too slow for second. This only happen for first gear. I never have this issue when coasting at 12 or 15 and needing to grab 2nd.

Any ideas guys ?

Is it my car or my driving ?

It's not too slow for 2nd... just slowly let the clutch out while gently giving it gas.

No coasting allowed :)
 

In Pennsylvania it is against the law to coast with your car in neutral. You don't have it 'under control'. I'm sure that this applies in many other states too.

For our sake in case we meet you coming the other way downhilll... and for the sake of your gearbox don't do it.

Glad you asked the question but sorry you were given bad information on how to handle a manual gearbox.

Cheers

J T

Sasha,
You may also want to look into the Porsche club's "skills day" that they hold out in bremmerton. Its a great way to spend the day learning the limits of your Boxster. The instructors are good and its generally a lot of fun. My ex. GF took mine to one of those and quickly outgrew the challenges. But felt far more comfortable driving the car in general.

I agree more people in the US should drive stick, it would help to get cell phones unglued from people ears.

-Greg

I know for safety concerns it's not good to coast down hills, but I'm curious, how is it bad for the gearbox?
Thanks.

Huh? Teaching a new driver should include giving them as few unnecessary distractions as possible. Fiddling with gas and clutch while trying to deal with traffic, lights, etc is not going to get a newby confident and safe as quickly as possible. Sure, once they're comfortable on the road, if you feel the need to take a chance on damaging your manual car during the learning process, go for it.

Please tell us how they did this before there is automatic transmission? My god think of the children.

While coasting downhill is something I don't do very often, in my mind it's not necessarily a cardinal sin per se. When you're in gear, you have a little better feel for what the car's gonna do: push the accelerator, it's going to speed up; let off the accelerator, you're going to get a little engine braking, slowing you a bit (or at least decreasing your gravity-driven acceleration, depending on what gear you are in and how steep the hill is).

I guess you could make the argument that you might "lose valuable seconds" getting back in gear if something unexpected occurs but, in my experience, that's almost never a factor when evading a problem. When such a 'surprise' happens, my first impulse is to either steer around it or utilize the brakes, often a combo of the two. Occasionally I'll accelerate to remedy such a condition, but that's pretty unusual. And when it does occur, it tends be in situations where you have those few seconds in which to get the car back in gear and then react. In my experience, it's rarely (if ever) a split-second emergency where instant ability to accelerate is required.

If I am coasting and then need to get the car back into gear, I'll do the rev-match thing when going from neutral to whatever gear I'm going into, and then again as I release the clutch so I don't get that 'chirp' at the wheels and overly jolt the drivetrain. That does take some practice.

The problem with coasting downhill, especially steep hills, is that you're in kind of a "freefall" mode, and you may well end up traveling faster than you want to be going for conditions. Unless, of course, you're riding the brakes, which is also not ideal. Like I said, I don't do it very often. But I will occasionally, normally in those situations where I see that I'm going to need to stop not too far down the road and that it's extremely unlikely I'll need to get it back into any gear other than first once I've come to a stop. An example is if I'm at a fairly slow speed and I'm coming to a red light on a gentle downhill slope. No big deal.

My god how did we drive our Pcars before the wheel was invented?

Clickman Please don't take this wrong but...Oh my goodness did you think at all before writing this. You talk like I put my kid in the car in downtown rush hour traffic and said "Go for it kid" They both started in a big empty parking lot learning to be semi-proficient with their start and stoping skills. Than I take them into a commerical area where they can practice on streets with no traffic. This way they are as safe as possible while gaining confidence. And how in the world are they going to damage my car learning to drive it. I drive the piss out of my car and have over 200,000 miles on it. I'm sure all those thousands of hours of driving plus all the autocrossing and track time I have put on my car have been alot more punishing on the mechanicals than the few short weeks it takes my two boys to learn. This whole time I am riding with them ready to give them any advice they may need when they need it. I love spending this time with my kids and it is something I hope they remember just as I remember learning to drive in a 68 beetle as a 14 year old way back in good old 1979. Although my mom was the one teaching because my dad just did not have the patience. Peace dude.

If you can't heel and toe, then you can't execute a smooth downshift and brake at the same time. This is a simple fact.

If you are changing down off the brakes / coasting, you'll still need an accurate throttle blip. In fact, I reckon that's the best way to begin learning heel and toe - get completely comfortable with blipping the throttle to match revs on a coastdown change or when changing down for an overtake.

Coasting
 

It is illegal to coast in neutral downhill in Seattle also.

Seattle Municiple Traffic Code 11.58.010
(1) The driver of any motor vehicle when traveling upon a down grade shall not coast with the gears of such vehicle in neutral.

Yeah, but how often you suppose THAT gets enforced?? (Right up there with prohibitions against jaywalking and expectorating in public.) :rolleyes:

Lotsa pointless, often silly, laws on the books that have been LONG ago forgotten and virtually never enforced.

Only when Sasha innocently says to the officer, "I was coasting down the hill and he / she backed out and hit me." Then it gets enforced and Sasha's responsiblity ratchets up because of the citation.


Gosh, I just didn't realize all my downshifts for the last 36 yrs were bad. :eek:

Vijen6,
My only thoughts about getting into 1st easier is to brings the RPM up a little before trying to put it back in gear. 1st is the hardest gear to rev.-match, because the RPM changes so quickly with road speed.

Sasha,
You can heel & toe with a single clutch motion, instead of a double-clutch. The RPM blip while the clutch is in just has to be slightly higher. I use both techniques, but the double-clutch is generally smoother, especially when changing down to 2nd or 1st gear, for the reasons mentioned above.

Hunker,
How do you downshift w/o H&T ? I assume you just release the clutch slowly and let the tires/drivetrain "pull" the engine up to the required RPM?

Steve

Sorry, don't buy it. It's experience in the action of traffic that counts, not in a parking lot or empty streets.
BTW you have an interesting way of seeking "peace" (dude), by asking someone if they think at all before writing. I can't think of a much more insulting comment to make to someone that participates in a forum.

I have no idea how you could drive on the street or track without rev-matching your downshifts...it's all second nature and I don't even think about it. When I drive with someone who doesn't understand rev-matching, it's always "herky-jerky" and never smooth...just think what the drive train is experiencing?

Quote: Only when Sasha innocently says to the officer, "I was coasting down the hill and he / she backed out and hit me." Then it gets enforced and Sasha's responsiblity ratchets up because of the citation.

Originally posted by husker boxster

Don't listen to him Sasha, just use some common sense. First off, when someone backs onto a road with traffic and hits a vehicle already traveling on that road, the responding cop is going to be pretty busy writing up the failure to yield ticket for the person who was clearly at fault in causing the accident (ie the backer). Secondly, when involved in an accident, you never offer unnecessary info, only the very basics---especially self-exculpatory stuff. Not "I was coasting down the hill when this guy backed into me" but "I was driving down the hill when this guy backed into me." It's a truthful statement but doesn't cloud the issues with superfluous (and irrelevant) details.

I suspect, unless he's a jerk or you bad-mouth him, most law enforcement officers wouldn't even write you up for "coasting", even if you were to offer up such information. It's just so obvious that THAT had NOTHING to do with a collision with somebody negligently backing into traffic.