IMS Upgrade - Should I have it done

[Jim Miller]

Originally Posted by Jake Raby

Sounds like a classisc victim... Low mileage, clean, probably hasn't been driven enough to see short interval oil services, etc, etc.

Read this and the links that you'll find inside the article
http://www.flat6innovations.com/services/intermediate-shaft-retrofit

If you have the opportunity to ask the question that you have posted here, then yes you should have the IMS bearing retrofitted.

Thus far this week we have saved one engine from IMS bearing failure (just today) and have had 3 IMS failure calls come in from various parts of the country. One of those that failed did so at 27K miles.

Low mileage, clean cars that haven't been serviced frequently enough and haven't been driven hard enough are what we see fail most.. The other day someone asked me how he should drive his car to help avoid a failure... My answer??? "You can't drive it hard enough".

Jake

How long does it take to do the work and approximate cost? Would it be possible to arrange a time were I drive it down, I have you guys do the work and I drive back.

[eightsandaces]

With all due respect, I have a 1998 that just crossed 32,000 it runs better than any car I've ever owned and revs freely right to the yellow line. I'm just tired of the urban legends about 986's and which ones are going to break. It's about as accurate as predicting the stock market.

[Jake Raby]

Originally Posted by Jim Miller

Jake

How long does it take to do the work and approximate cost? Would it be possible to arrange a time were I drive it down, I have you guys do the work and I drive back.

Sir,
please read the link I provided.. It's 8000 words all about our IMSR procedure, exact cost and turnaround if you ship the car down or choose drive it down and wait on the work to be done. In my link I explain the difference between and IMSR and a full blown IMS upgrade that requires complete engine disassembly.

We work from a well organized schedule so after reading my link on the Flat 6IMS procedure a quick email or call to my Office could answer the rest of the questions you have. My assistant, Dean can also set you up with a phone chat with me.

We do lots of out of state IMSR procedures and others here can share their experiences with my company and procedures. I am in the middle of a procedure for an ou of state client now, he thought he had a full blown failure when the car arrived, but he didn't so I made a simple AOS repair and then he decided to do an IMSR while the car was here. That owner is a member here and I have been posting the info to a thread he started here when his engine supposedly failed. Today I'll be posting the IMSR procedure pics to that thread, you'll learn a lot from that thread.

BTW a lot can be learned from poster mts as he was basically in waiting for an upgraded engine from us or an IMSR procedure when he had a bearing failure.

[Jim Miller]

Wow, now my head is all messed up. I really want this Boxster I have lined up to buy Sunday but buying it and having to spend 2K+ on an upgrade right out of the box ...

The big question is do I give up my 330i zhp (2004, 49K miles) mint cond which I have all the confidence in the world will go 200K for a 99 986 with 30K garage kept well maintained, never driven in bad weather? Disadvantage of getting older, the practical / responsible side of you starts kicking in.

I'm looking for the thrill of owning / driving like I had with my 71 911T, will I get that from the Boxster?

[Jake Raby]

Originally Posted by Jim Miller

Wow, now my head is all messed up. I really want this Boxster I have lined up to buy Sunday but buying it and having to spend 2K+ on an upgrade right out of the box ...

The big question is do I give up my 330i zhp (2004, 49K miles) mint cond which I have all the confidence in the world will go 200K for a 99 986 with 30K garage kept well maintained, never driven in bad weather? Disadvantage of getting older, the practical / responsible side of you starts kicking in.

I'm looking for the thrill of owning / driving like I had with my 71 911T, will I get that from the Boxster?

The choice is yours.. Is the thrill of owning the car worth the investment? Know that if you don't do the upgrade that a failure can occur and if it does happen the repair will cost more than the price of the car.

At least you know this now.. Many others don't find out until after the purchase is made or when a failure occurs. Two people I am working with now have experienced failures with cars they haven't even made the first payment on yet... Talking about being disgusted! The worst is the guy with the 996 that had it fail while being transported to him from the buyer.

With the proper necessary upgrades the cars are very good and reliable... Low mileage cars worry me because we see so many low mileage failures.. People think they can drive the car 2000 miles a year and never have to change the oil.. All that time the oil is saturating the outer IMS bearing seal.. It's not the mileage between oil services that matters most, it's the time the oil is in service.

Though you may be gun-shy it is better to be informed than being flanked by a full on failure out of the blue. People have called us in tears before, literally.

[yelojkt]

Originally Posted by postitagain

With the proper necessary upgrades the cars are very good and reliable... Low mileage cars worry me because we see so many low mileage failures.. People think they can drive the car 2000 miles a year and never have to change the oil.. All that time the oil is saturating the outer IMS bearing seal.. It's not the mileage between oil services that matters most, it's the time the oil is in service

My Car:

I have changed the oil once in 7 years. My car has 12k on it. It still smells like new!

I don't worry - life is to short!

Good grief you need to go drive that car. 12K an 7 years that is sad.

[Perfectlap]

Given the inventory of Porsches in general, you should look for a newer, in terms of engine design, Boxster. At this particular weight, those extra ponies really hit the sweet spot when you are exiting out of corners. It also helps in merging on highways and overtaking soccer mom vans. When I first drove a Honda S2000 on 240 HP (albeit with less torque) and came out of braking I instantly had an 'a ha" momment. Although the S2000 has its engine weight before the front shocks, the principle was similarish to a mid-engine two seater like the Boxster: At 240-260 HP(3.2 Boxster engines), this variety of roadster "comes alive".
280 - 300 (3.4 Boxster engines) give more oomph but the power starts to make more of a difference than the driver. Below 240 (2.7, 2.5 Boxster engines) its all driver.
I think 240-260 is the happy medium. Although if you offered me a Boxster Spyder I wouldn't turn you down.

There are also engine improvements in term of reliablity that come with each step forward in the design evloution. 2.5---->2.7, ----> 3.2,-----> 3.4

p.s.
My Porsche specialists did my IMS and clutch for ~$1800.
This should be the first thing you upgrade on the car in my opinion, even if your clutch is still "50%" so to speak. No point in passing up potential $10+K savings from an engine that didn't grenade just to save $300 (1/2 the cost of clutch).

[yelojkt]

Originally Posted by Perfectlap

Given the inventory of Porsches in general, you should look for a newer, in terms of engine design, Boxster. At this particular weight, those extra ponies really hit the sweet spot when you are exiting out of corners. It also helps in merging on highways and overtaking soccer mom vans. When I first drove a Honda S2000 on 240 HP (albeit with less torque) and came out of braking I instantly had an 'a ha" momment. Although the S2000 has its engine weight before the front shocks, the principle was similarish to a mid-engine two seater like the Boxster: At 240-260 HP(3.2 Boxster engines), this variety of roadster "comes alive".

I was thinking this same thing after reading the 911 comment. But then I also know how appealing a pristine interior can be.

[jwade]

S2000's are fun cars to drive, but a 986S will walk all over one....and the honda is very cramped for interior space too.

[Jim Miller]

Originally Posted by Jake Raby

The choice is yours.. Is the thrill of owning the car worth the investment? Know that if you don't do the upgrade that a failure can occur and if it does happen the repair will cost more than the price of the car.

At least you know this now.. Many others don't find out until after the purchase is made or when a failure occurs. Two people I am working with now have experienced failures with cars they haven't even made the first payment on yet... Talking about being disgusted! The worst is the guy with the 996 that had it fail while being transported to him from the buyer.

With the proper necessary upgrades the cars are very good and reliable... Low mileage cars worry me because we see so many low mileage failures.. People think they can drive the car 2000 miles a year and never have to change the oil.. All that time the oil is saturating the outer IMS bearing seal.. It's not the mileage between oil services that matters most, it's the time the oil is in service.

Though you may be gun-shy it is better to be informed than being flanked by a full on failure out of the blue. People have called us in tears before, literally.

All this discussion is disturbing but good. I will be test driving this car Sunday to potentially buy knowing that I need to add $2000 to the price. I decided, if I experience some of the fun I had driving my old 911T I will probably go for it.

I sold my 911T because of the noise level in the cabin. I recorded 105 db at 70 mph. Hearing protection would be required where I work. Im hopping the boxster is significantly improved.

[yelojkt]

Originally Posted by Jim Miller

I sold my 911T because of the noise level in the cabin. I recorded 105 db at 70 mph. Hearing protection would be required where I work. Im hopping the boxster is significantly improved.

I find this very interesting. I wonder what the noise level is in yelojkt at 70. What made you decide to take a reading in your 911T?

[eightsandaces]

My brother had a 991 T, very nice car, the Boxster is far more gratifying in every way. AC? no contest, chassis? no contest, engine placement and weight distribution....same

[Jim Miller]

I work at a chemical company where we are constanly evaluating process noise and the need for hearing protection. Noise levels above 86 db long term can be damaging.

I took someone for a ride in my car and he commented on the high noise level, rained on my parade. I then took the comany noise metter and started testing and found it was quite high. It was close to 86 at idle. I was able to reduce the level by applying Dynamat material under the rear seat and engin wall, reduced the level to 96 from over 100. One major contributer was installation of stainless steal heat exchangers, should of replace with normal steal.

For a long time I wore foam ear plugs, but eventually got rid of the car primarily because of that. Loved that car, hoping the Boxster will give me similar enjoyment.

[yelojkt]

Originally Posted by Jim Miller

Wow, now my head is all messed up. I really want this Boxster I have lined up to buy Sunday but buying it and having to spend 2K+ on an upgrade right out of the box ...

The big question is do I give up my 330i zhp (2004, 49K miles) mint cond which I have all the confidence in the world will go 200K for a 99 986 with 30K garage kept well maintained, never driven in bad weather? Disadvantage of getting older, the practical / responsible side of you starts kicking in.

I'm looking for the thrill of owning / driving like I had with my 71 911T, will I get that from the Boxster?

Have you not read of "permagrin" yet? I have driven a few boxsters on the street and have rode in one that was driven badly when the owner was auto-Xing it for a day and that was a blast. I have to say that you will love it. I don't know if it will touch the flickability that you had with a 71 911 (has to be much lighter) but I do not know anyone who has driven a boxster for any amount of time and not loved it.