So Long, Fare Well, auf Wiedersehen, Adieu…
 

Yes… I’ve gone and done it now…

I’ve crossed over to the Dark Side.

Today, I became the proud owner of a 1990 Porsche 964 Carrera 4 Cabriolet.

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I know… I know… But an air-cooled classic has always been on my ‘Bucket List’ and this one popped up a few months ago.

It is a one-owner car w/ complete Dealer service history and 20,736 actual documented miles.

And tell me that Fate didn't play a role... the car's Build Date in 1990 was my birthday! This was destined to be MY car!

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Champion Porsche in Pompano Beach (World’s Largest Porsche Dealer) did the PPI on this car for me yesterday and passed it with Flying Colors. In fact, the Service Manager and the Tech who did the inspection got on the phone together with me and said it’s: “The cleanest, most Original example we’ve ever seen”

The only noted deficiencies were a bent wiper arm and a bad battery (it was the original Porsche Factory Battery from 1990).

The Service Manager said: “You definitely have to buy this car! The interior shows no wear at all, everything works, and there has been absolutely no collision or paintwork done to this car. It has all the proper stickers (even the original purchase sticker), Owners Manual, Maintenance Manual (with all Dealer stamps), and Radio Manual w/ Code Card. The Toolkit is intact, including the air compressor, and the spare has never seen the road. There is no curb rash on any of the wheels. It drives beautifully and it still smells like a new car!”

In addition, the car comes with a Bra, the Tonneau Cover and a Porsche all-weather car cover.

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The Tech said the engine is intact, no leaks or noises. Compression, Fuel flow, Oil flow, Engine Electrics are all 100% within specification. Brakes are within spec and all tires are at 7/32” tread depth or greater.

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And they have no vested interest whatsoever. This is a Private Party Sale and they have never seen or serviced the car before. It has lived in West Palm Beach and had all it’s service done at Braman Porsche in West Palm. Braman does not do PPI’s, so the owner, at my request, had to drive 30 min. to Pompano Beach to have Champion do it.

The negotiating was difficult as this was a Forced Sale. The Private Party was down on his luck (like many in South Florida) – 2006: Net Worth=$14M, 2010: Net Worth = $0. The negotiations were full of Drama and Emotion; clearly he did not want to sell the car.

The car had been for sale since March in an obscure location. I watched it over the months and even suggested it to a couple friends a month ago, but nobody bit on it, so I decided to chase it. The owner did not get his asking price, but it did sell near the top of the market as it is a special car. I got it for slightly less than the avg. market price of an ’03 Boxster S w/ similar mileage.

The 964 is not the last of the air-cooled Porsches, that was the 993. But it is the last of the original body 911’s and so it is bound to appreciate with time, hopefully as hot as the 356, 914-6 or the 911 T. But who knows, if it appreciates, great, but I bought it to enjoy it and I’m sure I will.

I’ll be flying down to West Palm or Lauderdale (then West Palm by train) next week to pick-up the car and then will bring it North over the next 7 days. Haven’t decided if I’m heading straight North, or going along the Gulf and turn right at Dallas. I may go through the Smokies, or up the Seaboard. Might even give the ‘Dragon’ another go. ;)

That means I will be selling my 1999 Boxster. It will not be an easy parting, because it’s been a tremendous car and a joy to drive.

This is a virtually perfect car with all the ‘right’ accessories. The only issue may be that it’s a Tiptronic S. It has 27,8XX mi. on the clock. Everything works, Interior/Exterior virtually perfect. I have my wife’s boss interested in it and it will probably go to him.

But, in the event it doesn’t, I will offer it for sale. I have a fact sheet w/ pics available if you, or someone you know, may be interested. If you want one, email me at 98699@live.com. I am asking $16.5, which I realize is high, but this car warrants it. It is a no-stories car with no known deficiencies and will stand up to any PPI. Of course $16.5 is my asking price, the actual purchase price is still TBD.

All this means that I will become a less frequent visitor to this site, though I promise to lurk occasionally. I want to thank Brucelee, Randall, and too many others to mention, for all your assistance and encouragement through the years. My parting is just another confirmation that the Universe is indeed in Flux and all of us along with it.

Wishing you all Free-breathing MAFs, leak-proof RMS’s and Robust IMS’s! Keep promoting the dream of Boxster Ownership and keep the shiny side to the Sun!

Cheers!

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Wow! Very nice!

I wish I had money, there are some good deals on nice cars.

That's a nice unit Lil B, good for you! Enjoy it!

Awesome. Great color combination. Have fun!

Very nice, congrats and remember, don't let off on a corner! ;)
:cheers:
Chris

Man, what a great car...


There's WAY too many deals to be found in Florida right now.... cars, watches, everything...

Sweet! I have salivated over a few 964s also but none so pristine, enjoy.

Congrats LB...I've always been a 911 guy, having owned countless examples and variations. 964s have been somewhat unloved, but they are great cars to drive, though the C4s can have their issues (what Porsche doesn't?)

You probably know already, but the car doesn't appear to have the vent hose update kit on the dual distributor; a known weak point on the early cars. The drive belt can break causing the second unit to freeze in one position causing spark havoc with the second set of plugs.

You've found a magnificent example, though at the expense of someone whom was a great caretaker.

You'll enjoy the car, the 3.6 power and continue with top down driving pleasure!

Let me know when you are ready to sell
 

I will start saving now.
:)

Definitely a nice ride, I'd take that over the '99 986 too, good choice. But oh the difficulty of letting a loved car go.

I pulled mine out of Florida, IMO it would have fetched another $3k or more in various other locations across the US.

Wow, incredible opportunity to own such a nice example. Excellent find!

He...He... But, that's actually one of the advantages to the Carrera 4. The AWD helps mitigate the tendency to snap oversteer. But I admit that if you're not careful it'd be like riding a Tiger. I plan on doing a local PCA chapter DE to better learn the car and it's quirkiness.

Cheers!

Lil B

That is a sweet car for sure. Glad to see its going to somebody who will enjoy it. Keep us updated on your drive home and be safe.

Thanks. Yes, I've read about the tendency for Ozone to buildup in the dizzy and destroy the rubber drive belt to the 2nd distributor, and that the fix was a simple vent kit to vent the ozone away, but didn't realize you could visually detect it in photos - thanks for that... any source for the kit?

Also, the AWD is actually pretty robust, it's known weak link is the front diff input shaft seal sorta the 964 equivalent of RMS (what is it with Porsche and shaft seals? The Rest of the World doesn't seem to have trouble with them!), but the front diff on this car is dry. Also, reputably, the AC system isn't the best in the world - bad hose seals, etc.

I have the full 964 Factory Manuals, which have been my bedtime reading the past couple weeks. My wife remarked:"You're such a sexy man!" (of course she's right about that... though I'm pretty sure she meant it facetiously).

You seem to know these cars pretty well, any other pearls you'd like to share? TIA!

Cheers!

It'll be good if you can keep your head in 986forum. I'd miss your common sense, intelligent commentary.

Good luck with the new love...

well any unpainted, pristine-like Porsche is a find. The year in question is interesting since that's when Porsche was close to falling off the cliff. I remember seeing the PCNA Chief on TV talking about how they barely sold any cars, like barely any at all.
The AWD seems a little weird on a garage queen. I doubt you'll endanger that by putting it near SUV's on snowy roads. Excellence had a nice RS clone in AWD a while back. Congrats but I think you'll be back in the Boxster fold at some point, well if you're a roadster guy at heart.

Hey, it's a Porsche, who cares what number it is....desserter. :D

Ha...Ha! I know you're kidding, but for me it's a sickness, an OCD if you will.

There are so many great cars out there and so little time. I want to experience them all.

Given my limited means, I have to keep the 'stable' in constant rotation.

This 911 will be the 49th 'fun' car I've owned in my life and with very few exceptions, they've all been great to drive and a pleasure to own.

Face it, we never really own the classics, we're simply their current caretakers and will, someday, pass them on to someone else.

And, in a sense, you never really sell a car. They're all still locked into the 'ol memory banks. I remember how my Datsun 'Z' would toss it's back end around, or how my AH Bugeye would grunch in 2nd gear (no matter what you did to it), or how the my XJ 120 would fry your feet through the floorboards, and on and on.
The Boxster will be archived the same way. Someday, the 964 will too.

Cheers!

Congrats!!!!!! Nice ride! That's no reason to leave though. We'll talk about your ass-engined Nazi slot car too.

I've thought about a 964 many times. I'd love to hear a full comparison with the boxster. I believe they are almost exactly the same speed.

I test drove a 964 before buying the 986. I tend to be very rational, practical and unemotional. Performance is a driving factor for me. I saw no benefit to owning the 964 vs the 986, other than it was a coupe (personal preference). The 986 is just as fast in a straight line (I think), handles better, has more modern design and functionality, is more reliable, has a higher fun factor, is more ergonomic, etc. The only benefit I saw to the 964 is the "moxy." Air-cooled, 911, "classic" status, etc. Those don't mean much to me. My decision was easy.

You seem to know these cars pretty well, any other pearls you'd like to share?

The 964s have been very reliable for the most part. The updated coilover suspension was a huge upgrade for the 911 and this was the first twin plug "production" model. I'm sure you're aware of the head gasket (or lack of them) issue, though this car likely falls within the range. The 964 was also the first 911 to sport ABS and power steering.; the shift mechanism is also vastly improved from the prior series. My last 964 was an RS America, which was modified for track use, but looked fairly stock from the exterior. They are still a popular track car due to the modern suspension and decent power.

Enjoy and let us know your thoughts after your fun drive!

Hey LB...don't be a stranger...you're still drivin' a Porsche after all.

Your input into the forum, and to my PMs, has been invaluable to me and lots of other folks as well. Sooo...like I said, Don't be a stranger! :)

That RS is TEH SEX. Absolutely gorgeous.

Whoa... no one said one is better than the other, they're both good cars, just different. It's not a contest.

Just want to experience them both and I'm 50% there.

Cheers!

Maybe I wasn't clear enough. I don't think I said one is absolutely better than the other. I specifically stated my priorities, then told how the 986 fits them better than the 964, other than the coupe/roadster issue. I can see how that could be perceived as "the 964 is inferior" though.

The air cooled cars are sooo much more tactile than the 986/996 and newer. The new cars have higher limits, but that's useless on a street driven car.

I'd have chosen an even older model, like an SC, no power steering and about 300 pounds lighter, but I love to drive any of the older models. Oh that engine music.

The air cooled cars also have that really solid build construction that Porsche built their reputation on. Look at the difference between closing the door on an older 911 to a newer one and you'll know what I mean. Not to say they were flawless, but they were built with less of a concern for cost.

I understand that the 964 AWD system tends to understeer more than most people preferred, but I've driven through the mountains briskly following a 964 C4 and although I could gain a little here and there, I'd say he wasn't struggling with excessive understeer.

Yes, build quality on the older cars I think is better. Good point.

^ just make sure your garage floor is isn't stained easily. :)
and be sure to have a deep rainy day fund for unexpected engine issues.
Those aren't exactly plug and play labor rates like the new ones.

Well, understeer is somewhat subjective. The main advantage to the AWD is it's ability to mitigate the snap oversteer these cars have a tendency to experience and of course it does this through some increased understeer. But the difference is mostly one of getting used to it, sort of like driving a car with a higher steering gear ratio, you learn to adapt.

The disadvantages are reduced Range (MPG) driving 2 sets of wheels instead of 1. There's a weight penalty of a few hundred pounds. There's more to go wrong and more to service. But, bye-in-large it's a pretty robust system.

The biggest issues with the 964 tend to be the plastic valve covers, which warp and then leak perrenially (there are aftermarket alloy billet CNC valve covers which cure this, but it's a $1,000 solution), the dual ignition system will degrade unless you add the vent kit to eliminate ozone buildup in the #2 dizzy, teh M64 motor was built without head gaskets and any warpage can cause loss of oil and eventually compression (headgaskets can be installed and fix the problem) and all parts are EXPENSIVE! They make the Boxster look cheap to maintain by comparison.

This is why I chose the one I did. It's pristine condition and low mileage should, at least for a while, make the ownership costs bearable.

I already have the Factory Repair Manuals and in many cases, servicing the car looks to be easier (though in some cases, not by much) than the Boxster.

Anyway, nothing says it has to be forever. If I end up disenchanted with it, I'll just start to look for the next one down the list.

But, for now, I'm looking forward to the experience of owning and driving this car.

Cheers!

WOW!! Congrats, LB!
I can tell it was love at first bite!
I drove 911's for years and as long as you're aware of their bite you'll be fine.
Air cooled/water cooled, they both have their ups and downs, it's all about what YOU want and what YOU are willing to deal with.
I'm a mid-engine man and to tell the truth, if NSX's hadn't gone ridiculous, I'd probably be typing on their forum right now!
If you run into any trouble on your trip back north, I'm in Jacksonville and best bud has a Porsche shop in Macon. PM me if you want numbers, just in case.
Best of luck and don't become a stranger!

Did you do leakdown? If so, what were your numbers?

You let Champion do a PPI on an air-cooled car? They know very little about these machines. An indy shop would have been much more knowledgeable.

A leakdown would add about 4 hours to the PPI process. Have the plugs changed too "while you are in there".

You are going to wish you purchased a turbo. And not a cab. The cabs have far less collective value.

I appreciate the insights.

Champion did a very good PPI and I am satisfied with the detail and intensiveness of it - they have a 30 yr. Porsche Factory trained Tech who they specifically assign to the air-cooled cars. And, I did quite a lot of research prior to chasing this car and directed them to specifically look closely at areas I learned should be of concern.

They did not do a leakdown, but did do compression - all 6 cylinders measured within 3% of each other (this is a 20k mi. car, I wouldn't expect anything different).

Maintenance, such as oil and plug changes, was not possible as this was not yet my car - we hadn't yet negotiated a purchase price, the last thing I was going to do was maintenance on His car.

I will not ever wish I'd gotten a Turbo. I've owned many turbo cars in my lifetime and probably because of this have come to appreciate the smoothness and linear power delivery of naturally aspirated vehicles. IMHO, Turbos are like the girl you don't bring home to meet Mom - great fun for a night,... but not for a lifetime.

Again, I definitely wanted a Cab, it's the primary reason I chose this car. If I want to light my hair on fire, I have a couple other toys that'll do that quite nicely. It's not what I'm looking for in this car.

Cheers!

A quality PPI on an air cooled Porsche is about $1,200-$1,500. By skipping the leakdown testing, you may have made a huge mistake. You don't know the true health of the engine.

The PPI you did at Champion amounts to a simple used car check-list that they charged you about $270 for.

My comment regarding the spark plug change has nothing to do about providing "free maintenance" to the prior owner. During a leakdown test the plugs are already out, if the numbers are good (on your specific car I would expect values in the 2% range +/- 1% and within a very tight range of each other...<5%) and you plan to keep the car, put new plugs in for a few dollars more. No brainer. Plugs are cheap. Labor to get to the plugs is not.

My comment "wishing you purchased a turbo" is becuase the 964 will feel very-very slow compared to your Boxster. When I was adding to my collection last year, and in search for an air cooled Porsche (which took me 21 months and 4 PPI's to find the "right car for me") the 993 C2's and C4's did not offer me any performance above my current 2006 987S. In fact they have the same HP. 280/282 and the 993 weights more...about 250 pounds. That's why it took me so long to find the right air cooled Porsche. A 1997 993 Turbo (less than 500 are in the USA).

Doing the proper $1,200 PPI on my specific Porsche protected me from buying a Porsche that would require a +$12,000 top-end rebuild. Granted, it will require one some day....just not for 40-60,000 miles from now!

You are right about the linear power delivery regarding a Turbo. But the 993 Turbo is a twin turbo with very-very minimal lag. The 964 is a single turbo, and has significant lag. With the 997.2TT turbo lag is non existent.

Enjoy your new car.

Compared to a 2.5 tip Boxster, a 240Z, and a 70s Esprit, the NA 964 is going to be a rocket. Although I wouldn't describe the torque curve of the air cooled engines linear, it is extremely entertaining.

OK... Day#1. Got up at 3am for a 5am flight to Palm Beach. Picked up by the owner and drove the car to the Lawyer handling the sale. The Owner tried to renegotiate the deal! I called a cab to go back to the airport, and he finally signed the papers. Felt sorry for the guy, but that's all I could do... feel sorry for him. He did not have to sell me the car.

Anyway, all the drama extended my time on the ground, so I only made 500 miles before calling it a day.

The car is fanatastic. It's so tight, it's hard to believe it's 20 yrs. old. The power is amazing and I got better than 28 MPG and I was at 80 or above the whole day.

Leaving tomorrow @ 5am for a quick stop in Macon and then northward. If the car and I feel up to it, I may marathon it to get home, but most likely will make another stop and take it easy the rest of the way.

It is so much improved from the SC. Yes, it's heavier and less tactile, but not by much. It's advantages, esp. the suspension more than make up for them IMHO.

Hope tomorrow's cool enough to actually do some top-down driving, today was near 100 and I did AC all the way.

Cheers!

His 98 2.5 986 was a Tip, so anything he buys to replace it will be faster! ;) Don't let anyone stop you from fully enjoying your new purchase. Congrats on the purchase and drive it in good health, Lil!

OK... made it home tonight.

Car ran great the whole way, just a blast (at least as much a blast as you can have on cruise control and 5th gear for hrs. on end.

Special Shout to QuicKurt! I went to Autoworks in Macon GA to have the fluids changed. Met Randy and his mechanic. Great guys and they were amazed at the car and it's condition.

Despite knowing you (and he does say you truly are 'Quick' btw and warned me away from your political Blog... lol), he could not have been more accommodating. Ran the car up on a lift and inspected everything. Did the oil swap and was very reasonable. Wish I lived closer, because he'd definitely be my guy!

Thanks foir the recommendation. Even though I PM'd you and asked for his name/number and you did not reply (understandable, we're all busy), I picked the Porsche Mechanic from Google Search (3 came up) which I thought might best describe him.

I had my wife call ahead and something got messed up in translation. I walked into the shop the next day and asked for Randy. He said he thought I was going to another shop. I said no, I intended to come here, but he seemed somewhat reluctant to assist me.

I then asked if he knew Kurt from Jacksonville and all of a sudden we were 'Brothers of Another Mother', he got right to it, said I could pay by check to preserve my 'Road Cash'. Really did a nice job and again, confirmed what I'd been told and saw myself that this car is a true time-capsule. Had me on my way within 2 hrs.

Anyone in the Atlanta/Macon area would be well served by going to see Randy at Autoworks in Macon!

Thanks again Kurt for your recommendation!

Cheers!

Randy and Eric were on their second day of trying to replace a rear window and regulator on a VW "new" beetle when you walked in.
He called right after you left and said he was sorry he was a bit short when you walked in. He's been known to lose his temper when working on cars that are ridiculously hard to work on.
High performance cars are one thing, they are small, light and tight and you expect them to be tough work, but the rear window in a VW Beetle??

Sorry I missed your PM, it would have smoothed the meeting, had I been able to call ahead for you. I've been up to my ears in a new project and procedure for my shop.

Glad the rest of your trip went well and you're tickled with your new toy.
Drift it thru a fast turn for me! :cheers:

Yea, Randy showed me all that swapping that window regulator entailed. You practically had to remove everything aft of the front seats to access it. Add to this that the part alone was $700 and Randy had the cheerful task of informing the customer.

I didn't think he was short at all. Seems there had been some miscommunication between Randy and my wife who called ahead for me to try and set an appointment (i'm amongst the 1% of the population who doesn't own a cell phone), so Randy was not expecting me.

But, I really enjoyed my time with him and he went way beyond a mere oil change. He did a fairly thorough inspection of the car, more out of curiosity at it's pristine condition than anything else. But, he took pains to explain everything to me and gave me a better understanding of the 964 than I had walking in.

The trip was great fun, though there were only a few highlights as there isn't a lot to say about hour upon hour of cruising the interstates with the cruise on and in 5th gear.

Anyway... super nice guys. Thanks for the recommendation!

Cheers!

What oil did you elect to run in your air cooled engine?