Octane boost

[Lobo1186]

Originally Posted by Cloudsurfer

Glad to know we're on the same page with this

To continue the "is it safe" discussion, consider that at 20% concentration (enough to actually make a difference, toluene or xylene, as solvents, offer zero lubrication, and significantly degrade the lubricity of the remaining gasoline. This has obviously negative effects on things like fuel pumps, but is also particularly bad for the upper cylinder area, which relies partly on the fuel to lubricate the rings, and the rest on oil. They will also eat away at the fuel system. Adding a strong solvent to the mix washes the oil film from the cylinder walls, and you will experience increased cylinder bore and ring wear. Whatever small amount that makes it past the rings will degrade the oil, and cause increased bearing wear, also necessitating more frequent oil changes to try to combat this effect (added cost).

Both of these chemicals are also incredibly toxic to handle, and dispose of their containers.

Some will point out that, yes, Formula 1 cars used to run almost straight toluene, and that's true. Their motors also only had to last one race, and it was human health concerns that caused F1 to ban the fuel.

Lobo, I'm not sure where you're getting your information, but substituting solvent for fuel on a street car that doesn't get its engine rebuilt every few races is not a good idea, nor is handling this stuff on a regular basis.

To put this into practicality, last time I saw toluene at Home Depot, it was about $10/ gallon. Substituting 20% toluene (at $10/gal) with 80% premium unleaded (call it $3/gal) yields an overall fuel cost of $4.40/ gal. You can buy 100 octane race fuel for that price, and that is a high quality, safe fuel (both for your health and the health of your motor).

seeing is it is already a commercial fuel additive at the pump it can be used within limits. ive read that it is somewhere around 45% is within limits in the US to be classified as gasoline.

as far as health concerns... life is dangerous ive never let it stop me from living it.

[eightsandaces]

Haha on toxic to handle, look at a lot of hair products, I've seen tolunene in many.

[Lil bastard]

Toluene is particularly toxic to the respiratory system.

Toluene was used in F1, but only so the timing could be advanced radically on a motor with Forced induction - these were 1.5 Ltr. Turbocharged motors running in excess of 20PSI boost pressures to produce upwards of 700BHP.

The Boxster motor is hardly that, and the timing is essentially non-adjustable (outside of developing and programming new timing/fuel maps into the DME). So you wouldn't be able to take advantage of it all anyway.

Toluene, while approved by the EPA as a fuel additive, was only approved in an attempt to eliminate MBTE, a much bigger offender.

Just because F1 used it means nothing to a street engine.

In the '70's, BMW used to season it's F1 engine blocks by throwing them into snow banks in winter and pissing on them - that's right, the engineers used to go outside and pee in the blocks! Urine contains significant amounts of Nitrogen and this nitrification technique caused nitrogen to bond with the surface of the blocks making them stronger.

Are you advocating that we do this too???

Cheers!

[Lobo1186]

ive used toluene and xylene as a solvent for cleaning many times. its not a big deal. with anything else take care and its fine.

you two perpetuate this F1 argument. I have never once said that f1 uses it (regardless of the fact that they do or did, personally i dont drive an f1 car so it makes that logic faulty) . in fact all I have said is that it is currently used in the fuel you buy at any gas station already. all you would be doing is adding more which up to around 40 - 45% still constitutes gasoline in the US.

by all means don't put any more in your gas, that is your prerogative.

[23109VC]

I will chime in on this one - based on my own PERSONAL experience with ALL these things...

I used to have a pretty well modified Volvo S60R. the boost was increased and the octane made a HUGE difference in power. driving it on 91 CA gas vs 100 octane wa slike a different car...HUGE HUGE power gains.

I experimented with adding toluene and xylene - got at home depot and some paint shops

I also tried the over the counter stuff

I finally found a gas station near my home that sold VP 100 unleaded race fuel. that is THE way to do it if you MUST increase octane.

the over the counter stuff is crap. the ones with MMT may help...marginally..but nothing like race fuel. period. NOS brand race octane booster was the one I tried and seemed to help a little..but it was more like a band aid..it helped a small ammount, but it wasn't as good as race gas. not even close.

on my S60R...a high boost turbo car - octane was a huge factor. it helped offset detonation and allowed the car to run more advanced timing and more boost. it also offset power loss from hot ambient temps... which really sucked the life out of that car...

i can say that mixing xylene or touenewas a big fat PITA. you spill it on yourself..your hands burn...it's a mess...i hated it. fining a gas station near your home that sells VP 100 unleaded is great...i bought a couple of 5 gallon gas cans, filled them up..and then blended them in with my fillups.i woudl run 3 gallons or so with a tank of 91 and hte blend charts showed that got me to about 93 octane..enough to really feel the difference but not enough to waste money on unnecessary octane increases..

skip the over the counter octane boosters. waste of time/ money.
skip the xylene/toluene - big PITA / mess
find 100octane race fuel..put some in your tank when you're on empty and drive around and see if you notice any gain.

if you are LUCKY, you will noT notice any difference, b/c once you get hooked on race gas...it's addictive. if your car really needs it...you will hate driving w/out it. on my old car, the S60R, it WAS A HUGE difference, and driving w/out it - sucked. sucked sucked. at $6/gallon for the race fuelkk it just added to the expense of running my car..which was jus tmore $$ to spend on the car...

anyway... i'd just suggest you skip it unless you have a majorly modified car and are going to a track where tenths of a second are important to you.

to just drive your boxstera nd have fun - i doubt you need it.

has anyone here tried race gas in a stock boxster and did it do anything you could feel?

[Lobo1186]

thanks for the info. I bet that S60R was a blast.

[stephen wilson]

Sorry, I have to say it, a turbo engine reference has exactly zero relevence to a normally aspirated Boxster engine. Actually, even comparing another N/A engine is irrelevent, each and every engine design has specific octane requirements.

(Damn it, I try and stay out of "heated" threads, I'll go back to lurking now!)