What was "lost" from the 986?

[ehanauer]

I updated from a base 1999 986 to a base 2006 987 for lots of reasons.

40 more horsepower. I'm no longer embarrassed when stepping on the accelerator in 5th gear.

Sounds more like a Porsche.

Highly upgraded interior. The old one was too cheap and plasticky.

Glass rear window. No longer have to do the chop when lowering the top.

Creature comforts like homelink, rain sensing wipers, remote key for both trunks, a glovebox.

Cross drilled rotors.

I like the more aggressive look and the new headlights.

I could go on, but think I've made my point.

[Flavor 987S]

Originally Posted by stephen wilson

I have only put 1,000 miles on my 06, and it still freaks me out when the stability control kicks in. When I'm fully comfortable with the car, I expect to take my "sprited" drives with it turned off. I have a '65 Mustang for my back-to-basics driving. If I ever finish it!

You can turn off the PSM (Porsche Stability Management, a.k.a. Please Save Me) but it will kick back in automatically when specific thresholds are meet and exceeded (like wheel spin, braking, car spin, and etc.).

[Quickurt]

All great perspectives from different ages and starting points!
My first Porsche was a 1964 356C Cabriolet. Being a Cabrio was very important because I push started that car, by myself, more than I ever pushed anything. If it were a hard top, there would have been no way to push it, jump in, get it in gear and dump the clutch in time to start that piece of crap Bosch 6 volt system!! I lived in Miami when I owned it, so there were no hills to park on.
I loved that car!!
By the way, it had headlights that look almost exactly like the 987 headlights (basic overall shape)..........so I don't want to hear about 986 headlights looking more like a Porsche, it's all from your age and perspective. The 987 also reminds me a great deal of the 356 looking out the windshield.
My next was a 1968 911. It made the 356 seem both arcaic and slower than my first sports car, a 1961 MGA. The 911 was a brute (for it's day) and a purely scintilating car to drive. It made no allowances for wimpy driving and would kick your ass if you even thought about "breathing off" the throttle in a corner. If you forgot to keep the RPM over 3000 it would foul spark plugs in less than a minute.
Keeping the double 3-barrel Weber carbs clean and synchronized was a full time job that would test the patience of a dead man. I loved every second of it. Changing plugs and adjusting the valves really required an extra elbow in your right arm, but I couldn't find a doc who could do it, so I cussed and bled like every other 911 owner who couldn't afford the dealer. Front brake pads lasted about 8k miles.
I absolutely loved my 68 911.
Next was my favorite, from a pure driving standpoint - 1971 914/6. It had the same Weber carbureted 2 liter of the 68, but in a much lighter and mid engine car. Although it made the 911 seem sophisticated, NOTHING came close to the thrill of tossing that perfectly balanced sports car around any corner you could find. I learned to drive, I mean really DRIVE, in that car. You could do anything with it. It was perfection in motion. As Lil Bastard said above in describing what we consider a sports car, the 914/6 is my definition. My brother bought the car new and then they had a baby, so I bought it from him - for $3500!!!!! I ended up selling it back to him two years later, so I could buy my first Formula Ford.
We've often talked about that car and compared it to my 987 and have come to the conclusion that had Porsche built the 914 as a Porsche, rather than a VW, and had it looked like the next generation 911, like a Cayman/Boxster, rather than whatever a 914 was supposed to look like, there may not be any other sports car companies. Why bother?
I also bought/restored/sold five 914/4s over the years, but they were a sad excuse for the 6, especially the VW brakes and wheels.
The next 25 years I spent in and out of formula cars and a couple of sports racers and quite frankly, any street car in comparison is quite like comparing a Piper Cub to an F14. It also pretty much satisfied the "pure sports car" genes!!
Now to 986/987. In full disclosure I haven't owned a 986, but had two different 986-S cars for weekend tests. The first was an 01 and the second was an 04. They were almost like a first and second generation of the 986, to me. In all fairness, they were both used and obviously the 01 was 3 years older, even though it had 10k fewer miles. To me, everything about the 04 was more sophisticated and worked better and smoother than the 01, but at the same time, the 01 did not fell more "pure" to me. To me, a Porsche is supposed to be the state of the art and, in comparison, the next Boxster I had for a weekend, my 987, was far closer to that state of the art in how EVERYTHING on the car was just that touch better. I thought the steering had a little less feel, but at the same time was a little more responsive and secure feeling. The seats fit and held me better and Wifey made the same comment. I liked the interior design, fit and finish much more. I thought the ergonomics of the interior were better and it had both more room and better organization of that room. I thought it both rode better and held the road better. I agree about not having a spare, just like the RX8- it is stupid.
I like the 987 body shape better, but do like the 986 side intakes. As you can see by my pic, I like the Cayman side intakes best of all three designs.
After the 914/6 and racing mid engine cars for 25 years, I was not interested in what I quite frankly think is over engineered 1960's technology - the 911. I don't want 300 lbs of mass hanging out behind the rear wheels or all the engineering over-corrections needed to make it work as well as it does. In all honesty, if Porsche put all that trick GT/Cup Car stuff in a Cayman, the Grand AM RX8s, Camaros, and G8s couldn't smell their exhaust fumes.
So what does this 5000 word essay mean, in the end? Not a damned thing, other than I had a Saturday evening to kill!!
But it means just the same as all the other comments above because as I said in the first line, it's all about your perspective, your age and what YOU are looking for in YOUR car.

[Flavor 987S]

^Holy $hit, you need to "buy" a freaking paragraph, Kurt!

[Quickurt]

Originally Posted by Flavor 987S

^Holy $hit, you need to "buy" a freaking paragraph, Kurt!

Are you ready for the second half????

[vipola]

I just upgraded from a Boxster 99 (986) to a boxster S 2006 (987S), I like the 987! It is a very nice upgrade, and I have nothing to complain.. the only thing I am missing yet (after 2-3 rides) is the windows button in the center.

I was use to do everything (Switch Gear, Control Radio, Temperature and Windows) with my right hand while leaving my left hand always on the steering. So I could put the windows up between shifting when entering on the Highway.. Now I feel all lost having to take my left hand to control windows..

But I'm sure I'll get used to it..

[JTP]

I can't say what was 'lost' from the 986, but I think alot was lost from driving in general.

Kurt, I never drove a 914/6 but I loved my 914/4! It wasn't fast, but I was living on Maui at the time so it had plenty of power for the roads there. It was a blast to drive, took a beating and never let me down.

My 2000 986S (no T/C) is the newest Porsche I've owned and love it, but compared to the old Porsches it's missing that "feel." I know modern cars with all the computer controlled throttles, transmissions, brakes, and differentials are superior in every way but is technology taking cars ahead into the future in the wrong direction? As an engineer I love all the advancements but we seem to be getting disconnected from the thrill that turned us into gearheads. Is being cushioned by a cloud of technology always a good thing? The Nissan GTR comes to mind, capable of making almost any driver look like a pro. Some cars should still be produced that still holds onto that old go-kart thrill of driving.

Are cars too safe, too easy to drive now? Seems like that's the way society of going now, safe cars, safe sex, safe war, don't spank your kids, don't yell at new recruits in Basic Training 'cuz you'll stress them out. Due to new safety standards and legislations we will never have exciting cars to drive anymore, cars that were just bare bones excitement unless you're lucky enough to save a classic car to drive. Sometimes a 50hp 356 can be more fun than a 2010 Carrera.

A good friend of mine is an ex-Navy pilot, used to be THE test pilot for the F14 Tomcat before delivery to the Navy. He told me in many ways he enjoys flying his ultralight, felt the thrill of being a pilot, over the F14!

[Orient Red]

If your car feels too safe and insulated, here is a prescription to cure it:

1) Get some sticky tires on light rims
2) Increase sway bar sizes. Might as well eliminate the understeer by maxing-out the front camber.
3) Put some grabby/noisey brake pads in.
4) Increase spring stiffness and shock damping (oh hell, might as well buy coilovers).
5) Replace the dual-mass flywheel with a lightweight single-mass unit. Might as well install a grabby clutch while you're in there.
6) Replace the exhaust with something louder. Try not to concern yourself with whether or not you are adding or losing horsepower.
7) Replace the seats with racing/sport seats. The harder to get out of the better.
8) Do something unreasonable to make the car lighter (Remove some of the carpeting/insulation? Toss the A/C?).

Whether it's a 986 or 987, your car will gain back a lot of the mechanical feedback the engineers worked so hard to insulate you from. Now it is not everybody's Porsche, it is YOUR (meaning, my) Porsche. Will it be less civilized? You bet, but when you get it out on a canyon road (or on the track) it will be well worth it!

p.s. Make sure to turn the Stabilty Control OFF!

[Quickurt]

Originally Posted by Orient Red

If your car feels too safe and insulated, here is a prescription to cure it:

1) Get some sticky tires on light rims
2) Increase sway bar sizes. Might as well eliminate the understeer by maxing-out the front camber.
3) Put some grabby/noisey brake pads in.
4) Increase spring stiffness and shock damping (oh hell, might as well buy coilovers).
5) Replace the dual-mass flywheel with a lightweight single-mass unit. Might as well install a grabbly clutch while you're in there.
6) Replace the exhaust with something louder. Try not to concern yourself with whether or not you are adding or losing horsepower.
7) Replace the seats with racing/sport seats. The harder to get out of the better.
8) Do something unreasonable to make the car lighter (Remove some of the carpeting/insulation? Toss the A/C?).

Whether it's a 986 or 987, your car will gain back a lot of the mechanical feedback the engineers worked so hard to insulate you from. Now it is not everybody's Porsche, it is YOUR (meaning, my) Porsche. Will it be less civilized? You bet, but when you get it out on a canyon road (or on the track) it will be well worth it!

I'll tell you what, guys, there are a TON of older Formula cars and sports racers for sale CHEAP! Get one and go track it with a group like VDCA, SVRA or HSR. They are all Vintage racing organizations that put fun way, way, way ahead of all the BS that goes with SCCA racing. I'd love to get 10 grand for my ex-multiple-championship winning Club Ford and that's WAY less than you'll spend on the above list of stuff that will make your Boxster a pain in the ass to drive like what you bought it for!!

[Gent]

If you guys really want to appreciate your 986, do what I do and drive a 2005 diesel smart ForTwo for the winter 6 months of the year.

THEN get back into your Boxster. Hoo baby. Summer fun!

Don't get me wrong, the smart is also a performance machine; however it is a fuel economy performance machine. I love both vehicles for different reasons and each makes me appreciate the other.

[CRCGuy]

Great feedback from all of you. thanks!

I used to own a 1980 honda prelude that didn't have power steering or power brakes. I still remember what the steering felt like--I really enjoyed it.

I would definitely pay money for a stripped down Boxster with no power steering, actual throttle cable, manual top etc... I would have picked up an Elise if it wasn't so harsh as a DD. you guys are right, all this technology has insulated us from the driving experience--in an effort I guess to overcome driving skill inadequecies and improve fuel economy.

Seems there's a market for those that want a pure connection to the road but in a car that is comfortable as a DD. Like if an Elise and a Boxster had sex and produced offspring.

Anyone want to start a car company?

[Quickurt]

Originally Posted by CRCGuy

Anyone want to start a car company?

I've wanted to for years!!

How about a first generation MR2 with a 2.0 TDI Diesel and VW 7spd PDK??
The 1st gens weighed in at a miserly 2150 lb.!! The 2 liter VW TDI has more HP and about twice the torque of the Toyota 1.6 and with the 7 speed twin clutch transmission?? You gotta be kidding me!! What would it get? 70 MPG?

How about a 1500 lb. roadster built like an oversized sports racer using a Fiat 124 windshield assembly and fold down top? No AC, no PS, no PW, no BS, just a fun as hell and efficient commuter/sports car? It could use any number of front engine/front wheel drive power units, whatever you prefer.

[Bladecutter]

Originally Posted by Quickurt

I've wanted to for years!!

How about a first generation MR2 with a 2.0 TDI Diesel and VW 7spd PDK??
The 1st gens weighed in at a miserly 2150 lb.!! The 2 liter VW TDI has more HP and about twice the torque of the Toyota 1.6 and with the 7 speed twin clutch transmission?? You gotta be kidding me!! What would it get? 70 MPG?

Drop the PDK and drop the diesel fuel, and you have something worth considering.

How about a 1500 lb. roadster built like an oversized sports racer using a Fiat 124 windshield assembly and fold down top? No AC, no PS, no PW, no BS, just a fun as hell and efficient commuter/sports car? It could use any number of front engine/front wheel drive power units, whatever you prefer.

The anti-fun police would show up, take away your toy, all in the name of protecting you from yourself, and imminent happiness.

BC.

[CRCGuy]

Originally Posted by Quickurt

I've wanted to for years!!

How about a first generation MR2 with a 2.0 TDI Diesel and VW 7spd PDK??
The 1st gens weighed in at a miserly 2150 lb.!! The 2 liter VW TDI has more HP and about twice the torque of the Toyota 1.6 and with the 7 speed twin clutch transmission?? You gotta be kidding me!! What would it get? 70 MPG?

.

I like it!!! I've been looking for a first gen MR2 for awhile, in parallel to my first box. it was a great design. You're combination is a good one. I was excited to see the VW Bluesport prototype. I like the diesel sports car/roadster concept. fuel economy is of course a main driver but the torque makes for great fun. maybe we'll pick up some roller MR2's and get started. We will probably have to offer a manual tranny alongside PDK--- assuming it comes up as a key buying factor for our target segment. Oh and, one of those keyless starting systems--I've always loved the idea of just pushing a start button with the key still in my pocket.

I'll round up the VC money, you start looking for those roller MR2s

[PhilNotHill]

Having owned a 2004 Boxster S and a brand new 2011 Boxster S I can say the new one is definitely better bcus:

40 more bhp and more torque. more fun to drive. great road feel.
the 6 speed is smoother, better. a true joy. best stick ever.
the digital speedo is much better located as are all the readout. the dash is much improved.
Lots more toys-
Computer standard
tire pressure monitor
xenon lights that turn
ventillated seats
power seats with memory
Sports Exhaust awesome.
Navigation has altitude feature. great in the mountains.
bluetooth
XM radio built in rather than an add-on
the LED lights look good
self-dimming mirrors
rain sensitive wipers

only downside is no spare

all this for $7k more in 10 years. Not bad.

Life is good.