Wanted to Introduce myself -> Updated Just drove a Box
 

Just wanted to say hi. My name is Chad, I'm a 20 year old Computer Engineering student at Rose-Hulman Institute of technology. I'm also an Air Force ROTC cadet. My current car is a 1984 Porsche 944 with 83K miles on it. I got it last year and absolutely fell in love with Porsche engineering.

I've just started becoming interested in Boxsters because I found out that I am most likely going to be stationed at Eglin AFB in FL and decided that instead of getting a truck as a winter driver, I would wait until I get to FL and get a drop top :D

I have a couple of questions for you guys...

1. I am an autocross adict ;) and was wondering how the Boxster's, both 2.5 and 2.7 base models, are doing in SCCA races since being moved to AS.

2. How reliable are these cars? If I get one, it will be my only car and I won't be able to afford to have it off the road for a long time.

3. The other car that I'm looking at is a Honda S2K. Have any of you driven one of them and if so how would you compare it to you Boxster?


Thanks a lot guys!!

- Chad

I do a bit of Autocross myslef. My last car was a 1.8 Miata with lots of Autocross oriented mods.
In my opinion this is the best car to autocross and drive daily.
But the chicks don't dig it like they do the Boxster :)

I've driven the the older S2000 and I have the 3.2 Boxster.
The first thing I can say is that its a differenc of low end response
and higher end performance. The boxster S in 2nd gear(autocross gear)
is something to behold. Into third gear and you hear the lear jet sound coming from immeidately behind you. The S2000 is...different. You really have to work that gear box to get the same off the fly feeling. But the S2000 is easier on your wallet with those more expensive gas prices in Florida. How far is your daily commute?

I can't speak for the newer S2000 with much more torque than earlier versions but against the old s2000 I think my Boxster is more to my liking.
Actually, much more so.
The japanese cars are just more reliable than Germans and less expensive to repair (no contest) but someone recently posted that the Boxster received an award for consistently passing the strict German inspections process.

The torque that the 3.2 puts down is instantaneous and the steering is
like a surgeone with a scalpel. The handling is better (in my opinion than the
S2000) because you really can't beat a mid engine car in abrupt changes of direction like is so prevalent in Autocross. And I'm not a big fan of Honda's although I think the NSX which was developed by the greates racing driver of all time Ayrton Senna is a piece of sports car history.

anyhoo...I would recommend a Miata or a Boxster S if you plan to autocross and drive every day. You can turbocharge a Miata and coilvoer a Miata and get close to Boxster performance.
I think if you can find someone (usually an instructor) who has Autocrossed both a Boxster S and an newer S2000 you can get a better understanding of which you'll enjoy more.

How much money are you looking to spend? How important is power to you? IMO S2000>2.5 boxster=to 2.7L and < than a 3.2L

My best friend is a EE from Rose. Welcome to the group.

My daily commute is going to be about 10-15 minutes at the most. I'm going to try to be as close to the beach and the base as possible, like every 21 yr old USAF officer would ;)

I'm looking to spend $23 - 25K at the most. I'm not looking to buy right away, probably not until next winter, but its never to early to start looking. I would love to get an S, but right now there are no mid to low mileage S's in that price range, or none that I could find.

I'm definately more of a torque guy than a huge hp guy. I rode in my friends S2K and that's one of the things that bothered me. You didn't get that thrown back feeling like I even do in my 944, which is pretty sad. Another thing that I didn't like was the fact that until the VTEC kicked in, the car felt like a Civic.

I've tried to get some fellow Porsche guys to come to autocrosses in Indy and surrounding areas, but no one will venture out.

Thanks for the input guys... keep it coming

- Chad

Hey, you live in Terra Haute? I live in Charleston IL about 45 min west of you. I'll drive over to your town if you want to check out my S and go for a spin.

Perfectlap - I was looking at the 1.8 Miatas, but I just don't like the looks of them or the image that they have. I just can't picture myself driving a miata even though I know they are a very good autocross car... One of my friends got one and I just didn't like driving it.


Adam - that would be AWESOME!! Just let me know when will work for you to do that, I will be gone for the next couple weekends, I coach a volleyball team and we have a big tournament this weekend, then I will be in Italy for the next two. Our college team is going over there. The weekend of the 10th would work for me, if that's ok with you, or during the week is fine too, but i doubt you would want to make that drive during the week. You can PM me if you want and we can work out specifics...

since you are a member of the the armed forces I think you should get a discount :)

if you can get the 25K together try and find someone with a dealer auction license and fly up to Pennsylvania one weekend. They have auctions for Porsche's there that are returned for leases. I imagine the discount is quiet steep. It will require some investigating and a bit of legwork to get a licensed dealer but I'm sure at least one of them is a veteran. or you can wait for a good deal on low mileage S to pop up.

My Miata had excellent acceleration from a stop. even with only 150 hp.
I never really liked the styling but I would have found it difficult to part with the overall responsiveness/handling unless I was getting at least another 100 HP. And even with the extra 100 ponies the S acceleration not two levels better than my lightweight Miata. Just one level. When you consider the price difference between a used well maintained/tweaked Miata and a standard Boxster, its hard not to be impressed by the chick car with stupid lights.
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member...278357_110.jpg

Funny you should say that about Pennsylvania... That's where I'm originally from and where my parents still live. I actually have a family friend who is an auto dealer and has an auction license. I never even thought about looking for one at an auction, and really had no clue about the Porsche auction. Do you have any idea where that would be??

I agree that a tweaked Miata is pretty hard to beat in many aspects of automotive performance, but can you imagine the looks I would get switching from a Porsche to a Miata ;) jk... I do only drive a 944.... I just can't get over that the miata is such a chick car... maybe I have problems with my masculinity or something... :ah:

Chad...welcome to the Air Force. I graduated from Syracuse last year, and after being sent to Tunisia to speak french, Maxwell to do ASBC, and other random stuff, I'm stationed at COlumbus AFB going through pilot training. I have a bunch of friends down in the Elgin area, a couple of Comm guys down there. We head down every few months to crash at their place and wreak havoc on the coast.

If you do get the Boxster, we'll meet up and trade war stories. If you have any questions about coming on active duty or anything, feel free to contact me. Its a great place to be. :)

-Kevin

PS- Drive a Boxster. Drive an S2000. Drive a Miata.

They can all do wonderful things on the autocross track, but they are each tailored to very different driving styles. I'd say the S2000 would be the least favorable option for autocross, because, as everyone has mentioned, torque is such a godsend. Light, stripped out miata's with engine work done are disgustingly fast...like annoying mosquitos that always seem to be 1 or 2 seconds ahead of my Boxster (2.7).

Good luck! :cheers:

Manheim, Pennsylvania.
Wherever that is...

sounds like you've got half the "battle" won on the auction front.

I plan to go this route when I'm in the market for a Cayenne S or
a higher end 911. Hopefully I'll have a two car garage.
http://caicos.globat.com/%7Egtc-moto...s-Images/0.jpg

I used to autocross a '84 944, ran an '83 944 track car for five years. owned a 1990 Miata, owned a S2000 and currently have a Boxster S. I also used to run an E-Production 356 and a '82 narrow body 911SC with a '89 breathed on Turbo motor in drivers education events.

While I haven't tracked or autocrossed the Boxster or the S2000, I have driven them both hard enough to get an idea of how they would perform.

You will find it pretty tough to beat the neutrality of the 944. You can get away with errors in a 944 that will bite you in a Boxster. I set up my 944 to have a bit of oversteer but the rear never snapped around like a Boxster will. It's a natural trait of a mid or rear engine car. The neutral handling of the 944 will allow the average driver to run it closer to the edge lap after lap without going over that edge. Once you have experience with rear or mid-engined cars, you can also run them on the ragged edge as well, but it sure takes a lot more concentration, skill, and balls to keep them on that edge. That's why driving a 911 or Boxster well is so rewarding.

The S2000 and the Miata have one thing in common and that is the Japanese feel. Not quite the same solid feel of the Porsches. At the same time, the two best transmissions of the many cars I have owned belong to the Miata and the S2000 with the favorite being the S2000. My 2001 S2000 was a ball to drive because of the short, smooth shifting transmission coupled with the 9000 rpm redline. While it is true that the car comes alive at 6000 rpm, it is not a total slug down low. The Boxster S is more rewarding down low and I love the combination of the induction and exhaust noise. However, I would guess that on an autocross or track, they would be pretty fairly matched.

Both cars are great fun to drive with the Boxster being more practical because of the two trunks. Either one would be an ideal Florida car.

hey nice wheels jerhofer, really makes it look like the 93 concept car.
are those 10" in the rear?

I definately do love the neutrality of my 944. I have yet to get the back end to come out from behind me while on the autocross course... and yes I have been pushing hard, finishing about 1.5-2 seconds behind the winning 1.8 Miatas. I absolutely love the way the car handles. If my car had a little more potential, I would probably keep it and mod it, but there is very little potential in an early model NA 944 and that's the cruel truth.

I have yet to drive an S2K, but I definately agree with the cheap feel of a miata. That is something that I hate. I had a Nissan 300ZX turbo and that was one of the reasons I sold the car. Everything in it just felt cheap. I hate that!! If I am going to spend the money on a car, I don't want everything in it to look like it is made out of cheap black plastic.

jerhofer brought something up that I didn't really think about. How much of a difference is there in handling btw a mid engine car and a front engine car. I have never driven anything but front engine, but I'm a very quick learner and would probably adjust very quickly to the difference, but I would kinda like to know some opinions on the subject.

I think MR configurations are vastly affected by the power and torque.

an uderpowered car like the MR2 is very good in autocross and in one of my clubs runs within .1's (consitently) of a front wheel drive civic. Its really uncany, they are both excellent drivers use similar tires and week after week are seperated by less than .3's. Some times its come down to .01's difference.
They are both left foot brakers and water down their tires between runs.

I gues it comes down to driving style/preference.

That's interesting about the mid rear setup... I've always heard that mid rear cars were very prone to snap oversteer... is that true with Boxsters? I just got done riding with my friend in his S2K and the oversteer in it was crazy. I mean he is a very good driver, and definately drives at the edge 85 - 90 % of the time so he probably induces more than what I would usually get on the street. I dunno which car I like better... I haven't driven a Boxster yet, but we'll see what happens when I get to actually drive one. The S2K has an amazing sports car feel... very stiff, very responsive, but i dunno about having to drive it at such high RPMs....

I have been in an S 2000 and it is a small car in fact my knees were rubbing against the dash and i had the seat all the way back. I am 6 foot by the way

the s2000 is a fun little sport car, but it is very small inside and has a minimalist interior...i drove one several times back to back with the 986s, ....the s2k is more raw, louder rougher ride...very fast steering and quick shifting which is very fun...but if you are not in the mood to shift like a mad man and flog the engine well over 6000rpm , the car can get bogged down.....the boxster s has much more torque and a much nicer engine sound...its steering and shifting arent as quick, but they are still very good, esp the steering feel...the seats and interior are much better as are the exterior touches.....so more me, a used 986s is the better car vs the s2000

"I've always heard that mid rear cars were very prone to snap oversteer... is that true with Boxsters"

In my experience, the Box is pretty neutral. Granted, I don't track these babies but have driven them hard on ocassion.

:cheers:

I guess you're looking for a ragtop. But personally, I'd get a mint E36 M3 before an S2K.


-

I agree with Brucelee. The boxster is very neutral. You have to provoke it pretty good to get it to spin. When off the throttle the boxster almost always goes into a push condition at the very limit for me. The car will spin though if I stab at the throttle though.

Hey, Wombat, that sounds like a good plan but I may be in STL the the weekend of the 10th. I'll PM you and we'll set something up. You really should come to the Porsche Fun Fest in Effingham Il this June. Mike Yager always puts on an impressive show. There is also 2 auto-x's this June at the Coles County Airport this Aug. You should try to make it. Bring the 944 along.

Adam... just let me know when you are free. Where exactly are the autocrosses at? I would love to find a good place to autocross that's closer than 2 hours away. That's how far we have to go to find a good place to race around here.

The S2K definately has a very raw feel to it. I actually kinda like that. I like having a car that communicates to you as you push it, but on the other hand I noticed today that the ride of the S2K is VERY harsh. i rode in it for about 20 minutes and felt like I was being punished for something. How is the ride in the Boxster??

Sorry for all the questions guys. I'm just trying to get as much info before I start looking for my car.

Thanks.
They are 9.5" rears and 8" fronts.

My S2K tended to oversteer as well, but, it would not snap around as quickly as my Boxster. That is probably to be expected as it would be more common for a mid or rear engine car to have oversteering issues. I also agree about the ride quality of the S2K. The Boxster is much better and, when cruising for long distances on interstates with the top up, the Boxster is much quieter.

That being said, approaching that snap oversteer point is at a pretty high threshold. The good thing about some oversteer for autocrossing and track events is that turn-in is better and it is easier to rotate the car. As you acquire more seat time to gather confidence in either a Boxster or a 911, it becomes easier to use these characteristics to your advantage. Another advantage of mid or rear engine designs is better braking, as you have more weight over the rear wheels to make them work harder.

As for one of the remarks about getting a E36 M3, they are great cars as well. I have had both a E36 and a E46 M3. While the E46 is more refined and has more horsepower, the E36 was also great fun. Either one would be more like driving your 944 as the weight distribution in near 50-50 like the 944.

Another option would be a 968, although I am not wild about this car in the convertible configuration. If you are thinking of really concentrating on autocrossing, the rigidity of a coupe would be advantageous.

If you have the opportunity before you move to Florida, you should try a track event. You may not go back to autocrossing. You have a wonderful track less than an hour away in Putnam Park. It is very challenging yet has a long enough straightaway to gather up some serious speed. I ran my 83' 944 there many times and it was perfectly suited for this track. What you lose on the straights, you can make up in the corners against a lot of cars.

I'm actually seriously concidering doing a DE event at Putnam Park before I move, but we'll see what happens. I would like to become a better autocrosser before I take a car to the track. I've heard that being good at autocross will help you adjust well to the road course. I don't know how comfortable I would feel out there right now.

About the E36, I was actually thinking about them too. The only thing is that I would love to have drop top. If I can find a mint E36 for a good price then I would probably jump on it before an S2K. We'll see what happens.

Thank you guys so much for all the information. The friendliness and willingness to help people that is found on Porsche forums is incredible. I will keep you guys updated on the car search.

"About the E36, I was actually thinking about them too. The only thing is that I would love to have drop top. If I can find a mint E36 for a good price then I would probably jump on it before an S2K. We'll see what happens."

Check the sticky in the classifieds section under Belloff Motor Works. I have a 2002 E36 ragtop with 5 speed manual trans.

Pretty car.

Wombat, Hey, is that 944 a stick or auto? What's in those things? 2.5L 4 banger? The Coles Cnty Airport is in between Charleston and Mattoon IL off route 16. It's about 45 min west of you. I'll send you more details later as I can't rememeber the exact dates.

depending on the Autocross course, it may be harder than a road course.

Some clubs around here have very open AutoX courses, not the ususal sea of cones. I had a hard time adjusting to some of these events because the gates were so far from each other and some of the turns were so wide. Everything so spread out like that makes it difficult to see two pins ahead (The cardinal rule). Some of these stadium lots here in NY/NJ are really huge. I drove on road course before I ever Autocrossed and I see your point, your confidence and skills are much sharper after AutoX'ing a good deal. Some even think that its harder to be fast in AutoX because the time diferences are often down to .1's (a blink).

If you have some basic skills as an autocrosser, you should not have any problems on a track. Keep in mind that,as a first time driver, you will have an instructor. He will control your speed until he feels comfortable with your progress.

I agree with the remarks about track events being easier than autocrossing in some aspects. You make a run at an autocross and then you have to sit for an hour or so before you make the next run. On road courses, if you screw up a corner, a couple minutes later you will be at that same corner and get to try something different. Autocrossing demands that you memorize the course and learn it quickly. You have much more time to learn the course at a track event.

After I got into track events, I rarely autocrossed again. Too much down time and not enough seat time at an autocross. Some years ago I convinced one of my former bosses, who was into drag racing, to come with me to a track event where I would be his instructor and he could drive my car. After the first 30 minute session, he said he had just spent more seat time than in his entire drag racing career. And he had been drag racing for years!

My 944 is a 5 speed. It has a 2.5L 4 cylinder rated at 143 hp and 137 ft-lbs of torque. It is slightly underpowered, but handles like a dream. Probably the most neutral handling car I have ever driven. I love it, but there really isn't any potential for modification. You spend 2K on mods and only get 10 hp. It doesn't make much sense to me. I would much rather spend the money on a newer car that actually has some potential.

Who puts on the autocrosses there? 45 minutes is definately a better drive than 2 hrs. Keep me posted on the details!! Is it an SCCA event or a PCA event and if it is a PCA event are other brands of cars welcome??

The more I find out about Boxsters the more I want one!! If only I had the money now!!

It's an SCCA sanctioned event. Last year there were was all kinds of stuff there. Plenty WRX/STI/EVO, SVT stang, VR43000gt's, Z06, 996, S2K, gutted Hondas', and plenty of other stuff. I had no problem's beating everything except the Z06 and 996 Carrera. They were both driven by much more experienced drivers than me, so hopefully with a few more events under my belt I can close the gap.

Does the SCCA region who puts it on have a website? I would like to forward it to the other guys who I go to school with that also autocross. Look for us to be at the next race. Hopefully I can get a ride in your S...

This is the car club that hosts the Auto-x. Most of the events are in Rantoul Il, however, they are hosting events in Mid to late Aug at the Coles Cnty airport. There is a schedule on the website along with info on how to get there and what you need to do to participate.

http://www.ccsportscarclub.org/

wow that's a long wait. I've noticed some clubs do it all wrong. PCA and another CLub here have you do your laps within a couple of minutes of each other by Car Class. Once you finish the lap you immeidately grid up directly behind the start line. No driving off back to the paddock parking lot. That's really inefficient.

And then you work the course, get back in the car and do the 2nd half of the timed runs. 10 runs and then we 3-5 free runs that don't count but are timed.
I noticed SCCA take about twice as long to give you barely half that.
But SCCA around here is not really a learning event as much as its a very intense competition. During regional or Nationals you are limited to three laps to come up with your fastest time. Not really time effective for beginners

When I was in the event last year it was very similar to what you decribed. After each run you just got back in line and did it all over again.

I definately don't like having to wait in line to make my next run, but I'm the type of person who is very good at memorizing courses. After my first run I have the course pretty much memorized and my times usually get better from there.

I definately want to start road racing and I was going to keep my 944 and make it a race car, but again with an NA 944 there isn't much potential there. I would rather get a Boxster, use that to get my DE experience, then after that maybe make that into my race car.

Adam... do you ever race at the old Air Force base in Mattoon? There are a bunch of events there.

I think you mean Rantoul Wombat. Mattoon doesn't have an old airforce base. No, I haven't been to the Shanuit(sp?) base in Rantoul yet, but it's only about 1 hr north of me so I'll prolly do an event there this summer.

Yeah that's what I meant... sorry for the confusion. Thats about an hour and a half or so from here, so we are looking at possibly racing there too since it has a lot better surface than where we are racing now...

Where do you guys run at right now? Indy? The base is shutdown so the surface may not be as good as you think. You may have a nicer place than you think. The guys that came down here to Coles Cnty said the one here is much nicer.

We race in Indy and Columbus, IN. Any surface is probably better than the one in columbus. Its VERY rough and hard on tires. The place we race in indy is ok, nothing spectacular but allows for very long and fast courses to be setup which is a lot of fun. Some of us are probably going to try to make it over for the next race at Coles Cnty, just wish it was sooner than august.