Flat 6 Innovations saved my motor

[tommy986]

I want to say thanks to Jake Raby from Flat 6 Innovations and Charles Navarro at LN Engineering for taking the time to develop the IMS retrofit for our Boxsters.
Their efforts led to my engine being saved from certain failure.

I decided to take my 2000 Boxster S to Jake to have the IMS retrofit performed. There were no symptoms of any kind that I was having IMS issues, I just wanted a little peace of mind. When the IMS was pulled, Jake found that it was already in failure mode and would have soon caused the complete failure of my motor.

It's been a pleasure working with Jake and his staff. You won't find a more dedicated and professional group of people.

[rick3000]

What signs put your IMS in 'failure mode'?
I was not aware of any warning signs before an IMS failure, if there is something owners can check for, it would be a great way to avoid IMS induced engine failure.

[JTP]

Originally Posted by rick3000

What signs put your IMS in 'failure mode'?
I was not aware of any warning signs before an IMS failure, if there is something owners can check for, it would be a great way to avoid IMS induced engine failure.

Looks like he said there were no symptoms prior to IMS replacement. Only after pulling it did they see that it was already failing.

I wonder what it looks like in my car. I think I'm going to have it done this year.

[Kim-M]

It's the common engine failure on 2.5L right?

Just so I don't need to worry, mine is 2.7L from 2002.

Kim

[Boxtaboy]

Originally Posted by Kim-M

It's the common engine failure on 2.5L right?

Just so I don't need to worry, mine is 2.7L from 2002.

Kim

No, the common failure on the 2.5 is the slipped sleeve issue. Your car, like mine, is supseptible to the IMS problem that he speaks of. Whether it happens or not, who knows.

[jmatta]

All M96 engines are susceptible to IMS failures, but this is not a common experience.

Go to www.flat6innovations.com and www.lnengineering.com to read about the IMS and the retrofits...Jake and Charles have invested considerable time and money into solutions to Porsche's cost cutting issues.

We applaud them for their expertise and contribution to the Porsche community.

[Jake Raby]

I just finished my 90 mile test drive on tommy986's Boxster and after one more dyno session he'll be dropping by to pick the car up..

What we experienced with his Boxster was something I have never seen before. When the IMS bearing flange was pulled, immediately the aroma of scorched oil was present and thats something I have never seen from an engine that wasn't already compromised from the failure.

The IMS bearing was in the very beginning stages of failure and had recently been compromised, filling the IMS tube with fresh engine oil. The permanent lubricant used in the IMS bearing had been scorched and released into the area within the inner race of the IMS flange and thats what smelled so horrible.

The IMS flange that supports the inner race of the IMS bearing was nasty black and clearly shown signs of metal transfer from the inner race that from time to time had been spinning on the flange as the bearing was beginning to seize. This is the first sign of a bearing beginning to fail! When the inner race begins to spin against the flange it isn't long before it is "welded" into place and the big boom happens.

Tommy drove to my facility from several hundred miles away and was staying just a few miles up the road. I called him as soon as the bearing was extracted, before it had even been cleaned up to come witness first hand what was going on. He saw it and smelled it first hand.

When we did our "Pre IMS procedure Dyno evaluation" Tommy's car was down on power, only making around 212HP from a Boxster S when the numbers should be 220-225 at minimum. I have the car strapped down on the dyno now for it's "post IMS procedure dyno evaluation" and it'll be interesting to see if the car makes more power with no other changes. This will illustrate just how close to the edge of failure Tommy's engine was. This is why we always perform pre and post IMS dyno evaluations.

This bearing and the way it was failing will provide very beneficial data for our program.

Tommy stated the car was making a slight knocking sound at idle after being ran hard and now that sound is gone... That may have been the IMS, its hard to tell. This is further proof that the IMS failure can strike without an IMS bearing leak or any other symptom. Tick. Tick. BOOM!

[Jaxonalden]

Jake,

Do you have a satelite location in Kansas? I thought I heard that you did because it would be a shorter ride from OKC for my IMS retrofit.

[Jake Raby]

Nope.. Just one location.
Tommy is on the way home with the car now, he sure was appreciative of what we saved him!

[Motobob]

Can you remind me of the cost? Bob

[jhandy]

He saved my car as well. I was not as close to death as yours, but now I can drive it with out waiting for the hammer to fall.


Extended warrenty even payed for it.

[Jake Raby]

Its not smart to disassemble the drive train to remove the update the RMS or clutch without doing the IMS and clutch.. The same goes with the clutch, its not smart to replace the clutch assembly without updating the IMS and RMS since all the components are accessible easily while the tranny is pulled.

Thats why we do all the updates at once...

[Jaxonalden]

Jake,

You said " Tiptronic cars vary rate wise" do you mean cheaper? Without having to replace the clutch, pressure plate and throw-out bearing ($$$) and the tip having the addition of a couple of coolant lines I figure it would have to be cheaper.

[Jake Raby]

Everything is more complicated with a tip.. Pulling the tranny is more difficult and while it's out the fluid should be changed if it has any decent mileage on the car.

Due to this the charges associated with a tip are very similar to that of a manual, tiptronic fluid isn't cheap and the added labor adds up to costs that can exceed that of a manual (at least when going all the way with a comprehensive service)

[Jake Raby]

Did an Independent third party verify the fact that the bearing was in failure mode?

Yep.. That would be the owner of the car. He was here, he saw the bearing when it was extracted and he smelled the stench of the shop that was a result of the torched lubricant from the bearing. He put the bearing in his hand, it didn't take a rocket scientist to see that the bearing had failed and was caught just before the big boom.

On top of that, the bearing is in a bin with about 40 others, bagged and tagged with the owners name, mileage, engine size and serial number of the bearing that replaced it. When I get about 10 more of these the whole batch will go to an "independent 3rd party" for observation.

When any bearing is pulled from an engine and the smell fills a 7,000 square foot facility to the point where office workers over 100' away note it, even a blind man could tell that the unit was toast.

Note that the OP was my customer, he has been so pleased with our effectiveness and business practices to send several others our way. Coincidentally one of those people just called to schedule his IMSR procedure last week, he'll be driving several hours to get here..

Why has this forum turned into another business site for flat6 innovations?

The better question is why do you care? It obviously turned into this because my client was impressed with what we did for him enough to share that with others. Those "others" shared his feelings enough to make their posts and make the thread grow and one person even asked how much it cost... Only after the question was raised did I mention the cost, because it was a QUESTION.

Seems that you don't like much about this site and the people that frequent the site don't care much for you and your nameless identity.

Keep taking stabs at me, every time you bring some crap up the phone rings even more and the emails really roll in... I'll say that the people really love you, I get some really humorous comments!

Talk about a stimulus, maybe you should run for office, Barak could use a right hand man as effective as you. Keep making the reading provocative and dramatic, people really love a story full of drama!

Thanks!

[JoeFromPA]

Hi Jake,

I just took possession of a '99 Boxster 5-speed with 56k miles on it. Was owned by my father since it had around 25k on it, back in ~2003.

Anyway, my engine sounds fine. Clutch grabs well. And I have no idea if this is the original engine or if it was ever taken apart in the original 25k miles.

I will try to do the clutch job myself when the time comes...and then the IMS stuff and associated good things to do at the same time.

My question is: What's the condition of the DM flywheels you see on all the boxsters you are doing? Sounds like most of them appear fine, even after 80-90k miles, since you aren't replacing them as part of oyur package.

[Banana S]

How many threads has Jake started since he joined this forum? I count 12, of which 2 were simply "parts for sale" posts.

The vast majority of his posts appear to me to be responses to questions posed by forum members who know that they will get a helpful response from him. How many questions like that have you gotten from forum members here?

Incidentally, I'm dropping off my car at his shop on Friday (it will be a 9-hour drive for me, but I'm looking forward to it anyway), so I'll be able to report back with firsthand information (as opposed to snarky innuendo) as to how busy he is.

[Jake Raby]

Originally Posted by Banana S

How many threads has Jake started since he joined this forum? I count 12, of which 2 were simply "parts for sale" posts.

The vast majority of his posts appear to me to be responses to questions posed by forum members who know that they will get a helpful response from him. How many questions like that have you gotten from forum members here?

Incidentally, I'm dropping off my car at his shop on Friday (it will be a 9-hour drive for me, but I'm looking forward to it anyway), so I'll be able to report back with firsthand information (as opposed to snarky innuendo) as to how busy he is.

We'll see you on Friday.. Dean will be in touch this afternoon with a phone call.

To my old buddy,
Actually I am busy, very busy.. There are certain days that find me in my office all day, or in the dyno cell waiting for an engine to cool down. Today I am doing some welding and waiting for the parts to post cool before the next process, so I have a few minutes on my hands.. I have 13 computer stations in my facility, I can have fun with you from just about anywhere :-)

[ltusler]

A big +1 to the first message in this thread. My experience with Jake and staff was and continues to be first rate.

Thanks again Guys!

Lon

PS, if anyone wants to PM me with questions on their capabilities, feel free!

[Jake Raby]

Ltusler had a really big problem when he came my way....

A two piece crankshaft in his 996 engine....

After we were finished he had 340 RWHP without a Turbo from 3.8 liters that started as 3.6 liters :-)