result of PPI FOR BUYING 1997 WITH 30K MILES PART 2 please help!

[ART07154]

Originally Posted by Lil bastard

$10.5k for a '97 in ANY condition is a rip-off - keep searching!

I know it's not a steal but i think it's a fair deal for 30k miles good condition???

[eightsandaces]

Condition and care mean everything, there is no way I'd sell my 98 for 10.5 unless it was critical to winning the national "economic survivor outlast" game. I think it's a fair price for a vehicle never in an accident. The key to whether that is true doesn't lie in a carfax report. IMO, I'd locate any bent wheels, (any tire shop can do it) and then inspect carefully the corners said tires occupied. If someone got too hot in a corner, they could have repaired what they thought was minor damage to the body, without addressing the wheels and alignment. Could just as easily be the result of a pot hole or an under-inflated tire as well so I'm not saying in any way not to buy, just to be savvy and know exactly what you are purchasing, good luck!

[idheaton]

Did you check NADA or KBB?

Doing a quick KBB in my area pulls price ranges tops for for a '97 w/ 30k @

$8625 - excellent
$8050 - good - which this one imo falls into with the issues that need to be addressed
$7325 - fair condition.

At the price you haggled it down to you are paying full retail for an 'excellent' example which this is not.

I'd either keep shopping or check kbb and nada, print the results out and go back to the seller and renegotiate the price if you really have you heart set on this car.

I did not check any additional options other than what was checked by default so you are better off checking yourself as there are a few extra options that would push the car to the 9-10K range but that is still for an excellent example so you would still have some haggle room.

I'd also go down the bad list and figure out what I could fix myself and what I would have to have fixed and how much it would all cost me to and take all of that into consideration of the overall price as a factor as well.

[eightsandaces]

Wow those figures are sobering, I hope I'm alive and financially solvent when the PDK units suffer the same dip.

[Samson]

Originally Posted by idheaton

Did you check NADA or KBB?

The pricing on those types of websites are just loose guidelines, and not really worth much in the real world.

To see what a '97 Boxster is really selling for, do a search on Autotrader. In a 500 mile radius of me, the average price is $11,986 for private party sales. This is how I priced a recently sold car, and it was a good grand or two above the KBB quote.

[ART07154]

Originally Posted by idheaton

Did you check NADA or KBB?

Doing a quick KBB in my area pulls price ranges tops for for a '97 w/ 30k @

$8625 - excellent
$8050 - good - which this one imo falls into with the issues that need to be addressed
$7325 - fair condition.

At the price you haggled it down to you are paying full retail for an 'excellent' example which this is not.

I'd either keep shopping or check kbb and nada, print the results out and go back to the seller and renegotiate the price if you really have you heart set on this car.

I did not check any additional options other than what was checked by default so you are better off checking yourself as there are a few extra options that would push the car to the 9-10K range but that is still for an excellent example so you would still have some haggle room.

I'd also go down the bad list and figure out what I could fix myself and what I would have to have fixed and how much it would all cost me to and take all of that into consideration of the overall price as a factor as well.

I did checked KBB and Edmunds with options and miles private party=9,600,Dealer retail10,800.but I search 500 miles from where I live most of the boxster under $11,000 have almost 75k miles and up?I think is a fair price and I don't want to spend more than $11,000 for weekend vehicle.

[eightsandaces]

Options should effect the prices as well, like PASM or litronics.

[Lil bastard]

Originally Posted by ART07154

I did checked KBB and Edmunds with options and miles private party=9,600,Dealer retail10,800.but I search 500 miles from where I live most of the boxster under $11,000 have almost 75k miles and up?I think is a fair price and I don't want to spend more than $11,000 for weekend vehicle.

I still believe that it's too high. It's fall and drop top prices fall along with it in the snowbelt.

Also. Private sales always are priced higher than they should be (people ALWAYS think their car is worth more than it actually is. A '97 s/b at the bottom of it's depreciation curve but at $10.5 you'll take a hit as soon as next spring if you have to sell it.

I'd renegotiate - It's your money and you do not have to buy the car. Get the retail cost of correcting the defficiencies and pull them off your $10.5 offer. If the seller walks, he walks. If that happens, call him back in a couple weeks as he'll have likely softened by then.

Don't fall in love with one car, esp. a Boxster - there are so many of them around. If it takes a few more months, the wait will be worth it in the end.

[jhandy]

The price is a little high with the worry of what the slight vibration at high speed is.
I have spent 1000$+ tracking down my "slight vibration".

it could be:
rims, berings, rotors, unbalanced tires, struts, or sterring rack.

I would have them fix this slight vibration, or knock 2K off the price.
everything aside from the tire balance is a @500-1000$ replacement.

There are many boxsters with NO problems for sale at close to that price.

[ART07154]

I found a 2002 with 53k miles from a dealer and they asking $14k.Is this a better deal than 97 with 30k miles at $10.5k???

[Gougoushu]

Originally Posted by Lil bastard

... Private sales always are priced higher than they should be (people ALWAYS think their car is worth more than it actually is.

lil bastard is right that people overvalue their cars. But that doesn't mean the seller will be willing to part with his car for a true market price. Just because a seller "should" move, as Mike Yi is suggesting, doesn't mean he WILL.

A search for "Boxster" cars on ebay illustrates this truth better than our discussion could. If you look at "completed listings" for Boxsters on ebay, you will see that about 95% of the cars listed have failed to sell because buyers were not willing to pay the minimum [called the "reserve" price] that sellers want. Almost all completed sales [about 5% of all listings] are no-reserve listings [i.e. a desperate seller].

Ebay gives the best picture of the national market, because it shows actual sales: where willingness to sell intersects with willingness to buy. I reckon that the presence of ebay fees, car transport costs, and the buyer's inability to inspect the car [all tending to lower the price] are balanced by the presence of a large base of potential customers [tending to raise the price].

If you look at these completed listings [which requires that you register on ebay], you will have a really good idea of the actual market, and whether you would be able to unload the car if necessary in the near future.

[Lil bastard]

My final word on this is that you have to sit down, take a breath and realize that this is a luxury buy. You do not absolutely need it, nor do you need it TODAY!

Look at other '97's, with higher mileage. Take the difference in price and divide that by the difference in miles - that'll be how much you're paying for the 'unused' miles.

While it's true people over-value their cars, it's the best negotiator who wins in the end. Think about how long it took you to earn this money (or how hard you'll have to work to pay the loan) and negotiate from that basis. You have something the seller wants - money. The seller has something you want, but he's not the only source of satisfying your desire. The buyer has the edge. Sure the seller can refuse, so what? You just have to find another one and as far as the Boxster is concerned, there's no shortage of them.

In the end, you have to do what you think is best. No one here can tell you what to do. It's good you're seeking advice, but in the end, you have to intepret this advice and act as you see fit. Good luck!

[gschotland]

Originally Posted by Gougoushu

A search for "Boxster" cars on ebay illustrates this truth better than our discussion could. If you look at "completed listings" for Boxsters on ebay, you will see that about 95% of the cars listed have failed to sell because buyers were not willing to pay the minimum [called the "reserve" price] that sellers want. Almost all completed sales [about 5% of all listings] are no-reserve listings [i.e. a desperate seller].

Ebay gives the best picture of the national market, because it shows actual sales: where willingness to sell intersects with willingness to buy. I reckon that the presence of ebay fees, car transport costs, and the buyer's inability to inspect the car [all tending to lower the price] are balanced by the presence of a large base of potential customers [tending to raise the price].

If you look at these completed listings [which requires that you register on ebay], you will have a really good idea of the actual market, and whether you would be able to unload the car if necessary in the near future.

I agree 100%. But also look at the high bids on the 95% of cars that didn't sell because the reserve wasn't met, assuming the seller started at a low enough start number to actually elicit some bids. To me this is an even better indicator of fair market value than the no or low reserve "distress" sales that did happen. It shows what buyers are really willing to pay.

Follow the results over the course of a week or two compiling them on a spreadsheet (on mine I added my assessment of general condition, options, problems, location, etc.) and you'll see a very clear picture of value to the point that you can probably predict within +/-5% where the top bid will be on a given car. Knowledge is power. Gather your data and use it when negotiating locally.

ART07154, it seems like the prospect of your $185 PPI investment going out the window is enough to compel you to consummate the deal on this seemingly "good" car despite the seller's final offer being clearly overpriced by $1.5-$2k. You're not losing $185 by leaving nearly 10x that much on the table for the seller. Reality check time. Look at this as part of your search cost to find the right one. In the world of Boxster maintenance $185 is chump change.

Fall out of love with this car and keep looking for something as good or better that's more realistically priced. If you look hard and really can't find one (I'd find this hard to believe), go back at the seller in a few week or a month and negotiate aggressively and he will deal unless he wants to hang onto the car till the spring. Not too many Boxster shoppers out there now. His totally unrealistic price means he'll almost definitely still have it. If not, there are so many others.

Time and market conditions are on your side. There are THOUSANDS of these cars around and lots of motivated and/or financially strapped sellers. Be prepared to do a little leg work and don't be afraid to spend some $ to find the right one. Top down weather in VA is now 5 months away, so step back, take a deep breath, relax and take your time.