Trading in the Box - 986 Forum - The Community for Porsche Boxster & Cayman Owners

mylamb · 09-09-2009, 09:44 AM

Soooooooo...

After REPEATED trips to a local dealership who could not diagnose my coolant/oil transfer problem, I tried a different shop. Within 24 hours they were able to determine that A) the problem is not external & B) there are small metal filings in the oil filter, so the contamination is both ways: oil getting into coolant & vice versa. The original dealership said no coolant was getting into the oil (I have already posted about this problem a couple of times.) Coolant will eventually corrode the engine internals. Diagnosis: the car needs a new engine (not right away though - he said I prob have a few months.)

My warranty maxes out at the wholesale value of the car. An 01 S with 60K on it is "around" $13K (they are actually being generous,) and they have already paid $9K in repairs over the 3 years I have owned the car. This leaves $4K if they approve the repair. Even with a USED motor, a swap will run higher than that. I was a bit disgusted with the vehicle as it is: low mileage purchase, seemingly good condition, PPI through a premier local dealership, bought a warranty, and it turned into a "once-a-month" service nightmare that almost no dealership or specialty shop could properly diagnose. It has been in the shop 7+ times in the last 12 months.

This service manager at the 2nd dealership (seems knowledgeable & a good guy) said the best thing to do is get a final answer from the warranty company, and probably trade it in as he wouldn't advocate paying the difference on a new motor either (estimates a dealership swap at $12K-$16K, and agrees that a used unit is not the way to go.) I intend to ask him about Porsche Goodwill, but seeing as how I didn't buy the car from their dealership, I doubt they will do it - can't hurt to ask though.

Any suggestions on the repair or experience with Goodwill will be appreciated. I'll post the final diagnosis (cracked head, head gasket, problem block, etc.) once we get to it.

ChrisZang · 09-09-2009, 12:03 PM

There will be NO goodwill from Porsche - you can bet on that

Probably the cheapest way if you want to go with keeping the car would be to get an estimate from Jake Raby as how much an engine rebuild will cost you

rob76turbo · 09-09-2009, 12:32 PM

Maybe Jake can work with the Warranty company, although his last experience with one of them was not too good. But you never know. But I agree with Chris, probably your best course of action.

gRed04 · 09-09-2009, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisZang

Probably the cheapest way if you want to go with keeping the car would be to get an estimate from Jake Raby as how much an engine rebuild will cost you

I may be wrong on this but I thought a rebuild from Raby is going to be higher. I thought there have been some postings recently with the rebuild price being greater than a direct factory rebuild.

Jake Raby · 09-09-2009, 01:11 PM

Is Mark the tech there? He is one of the best techs we have run across in a long time. Are the particles Ferrous metal? Can you post or send me pics of the particles?

mylamb · 09-09-2009, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jake Raby

Is Mark the tech there? He is one of the best techs we have run across in a long time. Are the particles Ferrous metal? Can you post or send me pics of the particles?

Jake, I don't know if the tech looking at the car is Mark, or not. I can ask tomorrow when I speak with them again. The service manager said they saw copper filings in the oil filter. I really don't know what that means. Copper? I asked about time (because I would have to drive it 30 minutes back home if it's not going to get repaired right away) and he said it's not that critical yet, I could easily have a few months, but the process has started and it will need to be replaced eventually & they are not recommending a rebuild.

urban_legend · 09-09-2009, 05:05 PM

Could come from the bearings in the oil/water pump I believe.

986Shaft · 09-09-2009, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jake Raby

Is Mark the tech there? He is one of the best techs we have run across in a long time. Are the particles Ferrous metal? Can you post or send me pics of the particles?

Sorry to thread-jack, but if Jake wants to look at pictures of metal, I'll post some. Here are pictures of the filings from my engine. Asked the mechanic to do a leak down test and check for metal fragments. He took off the oil pan/cover (whatever it's called on the Boxster) and found these. He stopped at that point, told me that some of the filings were aluminum and that the engine needed to be replaced. He said that aluminum filings indicated the bearing had failed so severely that the case was damaged. He didn't do the leak down.

Original diagnosis was IMS failure, but nothing was opened up at that time.

First picture is of filings in the bottom of a coffee mug. 2nd picture - most of the filings jump to a magnet, even those that look like aluminum. 3rd picture is what remains in the mug after the magnet - probably just stuck down.

So I believe I didn't learn anything from this exercise. I already expected that at least some metal would be present - even if an engine can be repaired it requires a thorough flush. Maybe the photos tell you something, Jake?

Jake Raby · 09-09-2009, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 986Shaft

Sorry to thread-jack, but if Jake wants to look at pictures of metal, I'll post some. Here are pictures of the filings from my engine. Asked the mechanic to do a leak down test and check for metal fragments. He took off the oil pan/cover (whatever it's called on the Boxster) and found these. He stopped at that point, told me that some of the filings were aluminum and that the engine needed to be replaced. He said that aluminum filings indicated the bearing had failed so severely that the case was damaged. He didn't do the leak down.

Original diagnosis was IMS failure, but nothing was opened up at that time.

First picture is of filings in the bottom of a coffee mug. 2nd picture - most of the filings jump to a magnet, even those that look like aluminum. 3rd picture is what remains in the mug after the magnet - probably just stuck down.

So I believe I didn't learn anything from this exercise. I already expected that at least some metal would be present - even if an engine can be repaired it requires a thorough flush. Maybe the photos tell you something, Jake?

Trust me, I have tons of photos.... Yours tell me that your engine is trashed.

I wanted to see what the particles looked like.. If they are copper, that means the main bearings are toast as they are the only copper bearing in the engine.

Could have had an oil pump failure, or the oil pick up tube could have been clogged..

986Shaft · 09-09-2009, 09:44 PM

Jake - That I believe. However, these were not pictures of the copper fragments - different car, different failure.

mylamb · 09-10-2009, 05:35 AM

I'm not able to take photos right now. The dealership is in Orland Park & I am in downtown Chicago. I will speak with them today. The rep from the warranty company is coming out to investigate but honestly, if they only intend to pay $4000 more on the car... he may as well stay home! I'm already shopping for an alternative vehicle.

11:30 AM CST - Service manager confirmed - copper. Said he will speak with his rep regarding Goodwill - no promises and believes it would be a % that they may cover, not the whole amount. No guarantees but he said the car is admittedly low mileage and has good service records. Still waiting for warranty rep - and I am still shopping.

cnavarro · 09-11-2009, 03:28 PM

Yes, Marc's the tech's name at Joe Rizza who has gone over your car. It's classic milkshake, intermix of oil in the coolant and coolant in the oil. What's difficult in these cases is that without disassembly, it's hard to pinpoint the failure. Likely candidate could be cracked heads, but that's where the extended warranty comes in - they'll have to follow their procedure to the T before doing any work (or having the work approved).

There are several options open to you, even going with a big bore kit and bumping the engine up to 3.6L. You might even get the warranty company to cover part of the cost from the standpoint that if there is damage to the bores and pistons, our work done to the block and new pistons are several thousand dollars less than any solution from Porsche.

Joe Rizza Porsche is the only Chicagoland LN Engineering dealer and I've worked with Marc for years now. He's the only person who I let work on my car(s). You couldn't be in better hands in the Chicago area.

If you need help or have questions, don't hesitate to let me know and I'll be happy to help in any way I can.

mylamb · 09-12-2009, 06:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cnavarro

Yes, Marc's the tech's name at Joe Rizza who has gone over your car. It's classic milkshake, intermix of oil in the coolant and coolant in the oil. What's difficult in these cases is that without disassembly, it's hard to pinpoint the failure. Likely candidate could be cracked heads, but that's where the extended warranty comes in - they'll have to follow their procedure to the T before doing any work (or having the work approved).

There are several options open to you, even going with a big bore kit and bumping the engine up to 3.6L. You might even get the warranty company to cover part of the cost from the standpoint that if there is damage to the bores and pistons, our work done to the block and new pistons are several thousand dollars less than any solution from Porsche.

Joe Rizza Porsche is the only Chicagoland LN Engineering dealer and I've worked with Marc for years now. He's the only person who I let work on my car(s). You couldn't be in better hands in the Chicago area.

If you need help or have questions, don't hesitate to let me know and I'll be happy to help in any way I can.

Thanks! I'll contact you shortly - would definitely like to know my options.