What Oil to use?M1, Castro synt? or other
 

After much extensive research, I am now more confused than before. :confused: Many on rentech and other reputable sites believe that M1 xw40 is great but apparently cant be had in the states. They actually believe Mobile 1 10w30 may lead to the "AOS" failure and white smoke. Most also suggest a minimum of 7500mile changes, and less if you are hard on it. Some even suggest 2 times a year for the different seasons in ohio. Like 5W40 for winter and 15W40 for summer.
http://www.babblers.org/forums/showthread.php?t=11064&highlight=mobile

Questions:
1.)What oil do you use in your Boxster? I am in ohio so we get some cold weather. I am leaning towards Castro syntec 5W40.

2.)what air and oil filters should I use? I have heard great things about K&N.

oil
 

mobil one 0W40 you can buy it at any store around here auto zone ,advanced auto,etc

It was 4W40 they said wasn't sold in america, but after reading this article I am rethinking the use of Mobile 1.

http://www.lnengineering.com/oil.html

Not another oil thread AAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! :eek:

Yes indeed, why is that a problem? actually i was asking about filters also.

There has been a lot of people going away from mobile 1 see below. Since I am about to change my oil, I was trying to get some proffesional opinions on the subject. The main problem seems to be anything lower than xxW40.

http://www.babblers.org/forums/showthread.php?t=11064&highlight=mobile

Guys,

If you really read those threads that Jake Raby has some input on, the suggestion is not only to reduce the change interval, but to move away from Mobil 1 as well. What no one is saying is: move to what ? Raby can't be more prescriptive on that for legal reasons at the present time, but he will tell you that he does not use M1 in his engines. If you have a Raby motor put in your car, it will not come back to you with M1 in the crankcase.

You have to decide for yourself if you want to do this, and to what oil, but I can tell you that I dug DEEP into this topic and after a LOT of reading came to the conclusion that the M1 had to go. I saw and read enough to make me a believer that the M1 may be a main player in the IMS failures. This is just my personal opinion, but you can dig and read on the subject as well and draw your own conclusions. I can say though, that my opinion is based on a lot of research and reading on the subject, and on 30 years of turning wrenches on my own street cars, and drag racing motors.

I made the switch to Castrol Syntec 5w-40, which is still on Porsche's approved oil list as are many other commonly available 5w-40 fully synthetic oils. I have used Castrol lubricants for years, in both street and racing motors, and never once had a problem. However Quaker State, Penzoil, Valvoline, Motul, Exon, and Havoline 5w-40 synthetics are all on the approved list along with many others. I would personally not hesitate to use Royal Purple 5w-40 either, although it is not on Porsche's approved list. I have had very good experiences with it in the past.

Just my opinion, so take it for what it is worth, but you can dig and read as well as I can I'm sure. If you dig enough, and in the right places, my bet is you will come to a similar conclusion. Besides....it is ZERO risk to change oil, since so many other oils are on the approved list and cost pretty much the same as M1.
__________________

It's not a problem. I understand you're just trying to get others opinions. It just gets old reading post after post about motor oils. In the end there never is a consensus. Some people like Mobil 1. Some people like Royal Purple. Some like Redline ect. ect, ect. If you do a search on this forum using the word "Mobil" (for some reason it won't allow you to use "Mobil 1") you will find you get 268 hits for different threads.

:cheers:

Sorry if my reply sounded rude, it wasn't meant to be. ;) it just frustrates me as I was ready to get this over with.
I was all set to change my oil with mobile 1 and did a quick search and ran across a plethora of articles on oils and how some highly respected people are going away from M1.
thanks for the reply though.

FWIW, I use Royal Purple 10W40 in my seven year old S with just under 16k miles. Change it once a year, which equates to 2500 to 3000 miles. I've read very good reviews for Castrol Syntec 10W40 and at half the price, would be tempted to try it.

After reading and seeing the failures on both LN and Flat Sixes' sites, there is no way I'd use Mobil 1 0W40.

To each their own...that's why there are so many different beers out there...everyone has their own tastes.

I have heard royal puple has a loyal following. I am leaning towards castro syntec because I haven't heard anything bad about it. I see you live in the Chicago area(gotta love Genos east pizza :cheers: ). anyways, do you drive your car in the winter? I am guessing not due to the low miles on your Box(16k). I plan on racking up quite a few miles as i just love to road trip with it. I plan to change the oil 1 1/2 to 2 times a year(yeah I know 1 1/2 its an average :cool: ).

I appreciate the input, as that is why I started the thread. Since all the doubts about M1 are recent, it raised some concern. I just would rather be safe than sorry. I guess the only way to find out if the engine failures and Mobile 1 are true is if I had one. Not a rosy scenerio for me.

oils
 

Its funny everbody gives a differnt story ,one says royal purple is the best next guy says its sucks ,they used to say ams oil was the best in jet skis ,bikes, cars, etc now the same people say not to run it at all not even in your lawn mower ,same with lucas oil everbody said it was the best when it first came out or became popular now they say it sucks, now royal purple is fairly new or popular now they say it is the best ,next year they will say not to use it ,and there will be some fancy name new oil on the market they will say to use ,I have always heard you can not go wrong with mobil 1 my 98 box has it and has never had a problem and it is driven hard and has 88 k on it ,I have never heard any thing bad about castrol and run that in my 914

I agree RD its the flavor of the month. I am looking more of what to stay away. I mean I could run regular 10w40 oil from jiffy lube and never have a problem. Its a pretty whacked subject. Everytime i do a search I come up with negative stuff on any motor oil. Just put the pharase "don't use" in front of the oil. Ie the link below is the latest.

http://www.synthetic-motor-oil-change-and-filters.com/amsoil_articles/amsoils-big-competitors/

Good Frickin Grief. I think I might just flip a coin!! hell if my engine does blow, then I can put a 3.8 in it for only $26,000. :eek:

FYI... I Just did a Mobil 1 oil change, 10w30. In retrospec, I would have gone to 10w40. I am not sure but it seems to runs a little hotter now, compared to the old oil (which I have no way of knowing the weight). But now I am driving in the summer compared to the spring.

I bought my oil from Meijers at $19.99 a gal (on sale), and the quart cost me $5.49, I got the filter from the Zone. I would recommend getting the filter wrench from the Zone at the same time.

My thoughts on oil... I run the the TL and Chevy on whatever is on sale (they have 135k and 100k respectively). I ran my old Civic SI on whatever was on sale... when I traded that away it had 190k. You could argue that running better oil makes the engine last longer... or I would argue that doing oil changes at the prescribed interval it more important than the label on the bottle. But what do I know.. I can show only 425k of research.

Red Line is a class 5 full synthetic made with Polyolesters.

To my mind, it is hands down the best.

IMO.

Where's the best place to buy Redline?

-Steve

http://www.redlineoil.com/

Dealer locator and you can buy it online.

:)

Honestly Vath2001, What I have read ,and its a lot, you need to stay away from xxW30. Most experts warn never to use it. Now there is a cure, drain out 2 or 3 quarts and add xxW50. It gives it a xxW40 average. Some guy on another site posted he used the same as you and the "experts" told him to get it out as soon as possible. They are more concerned about the weight rather than the brand.

PS I saw the miejers add also for a gallon of M1 for $19.99 :eek: Damn nice price.

I bought a case of Redline 0W-40 last week for $136 shipped.

http://www.racerpartswholesale.com/category/Red_Line_Motor_Oils

I've been using M1 0W-40 without any problems since I've had my car. However, all of the info from Flat 6 and LN got my attention. I only drive 2,500 - 3,000 miles per year so I change the oil annually which makes the cost less of an issue for me.

ddb

Well the saga continues. I am set to put some CAstrol syntec, or mobile 1 in Box. Problem is nobody has any xxW40. its all xxW30. I know better to use the latter(30 is bad).

My question is they do have M1 10W40 (highmilage) AND 5W40 (turbo diesel truck) Can I use either one of these?
My local Oreilleys has buy 4 get 5th for free(upto two free) on Mobile 1. This is perfect for me.

Now I'm nervous
 

Wish I'd read this thread last week. I just changed my oil and put in 5W30 M1.... now, I'm having serious second thoughts. What is the big issue with the 30W? I live well N of the 49th parallel and its cool up here most of the time. Putting in the 5W made my noisy lifters quiet right down and things are running ever so smoothly.

Is this a big enough issue that you'd recommend I drain and refill with thicker oil before next Spring? :confused: :chicken:

Chances are you will be all right, but if it was me and what I have read, yes I would do something. You may be fine, but why chance it. there were a "few" who brought up a possible link between "aos" failure and 30 weight. Its about the viscosity and the posche engine breaking down 30 weight oils easily. An easy fix to save you some money is in the following thread. Just empty out a few quarts and replace with 50 weight.
http://www.babblers.org/forums/showthread.php?p=56040&highlight=mobile&page=2

"when i got my second boxster ppi'ed at a porsche mechanic he gave me the car a cocktail of mobil 5w30 and 15w50.... said it would give the grade of 10w40 which mobil 1 didn't have... so when i made a mistake of putting in 5w30 he said drain half the oil and add 15w50... did that and everything is good... when i had the 5w30 in (about 600 miles) i noticed frequently on start ups i would get a puff of smoke after the cocktail mix none at all and seem to drive a tad cooler and quieter.. funny though when i had my 97 i used 15w50 and it would puff smoke after 2-3 start ups..."

The engine's oil DOES NOT lube the IMS bearing in factory form. The factory IMS bearing is a permanently lubricated SEALED unit... Thats why it fails. engine oil selections have little impact on the IMS bearing.

sorry, I did it again. It was the AOS they were talking about. Thanks for heads up on my mistake, I will edit it. :)

Hey, wait a minute, you are the guy I have been googleing for the past two days. :cheers:

Sorry I am real slow today(slower than usual). Please put this to rest, as you have more knowledge in your little toe Than I will ever have on this oil issue. What do you (or can you legally) recommend me to use in my 2001 boxster "s"? Please include weight also(I live in ohio but don't drive too much in winter). I plan to change every 7000miles or once a year. MY car has 60k miles on it, I don't abuse it, but I do like to hear it sing through the gears quite often. :D

Ps do you still think ZDDPlus is a good additive for me?

Sorry, but I NEVER divulge oil information and making a recommendation that defies Porsche's "Bible" is a good way to end up being responsible for someone's failed engine.. In a perfect world I could share information without any negative fallout.. Not happening in the 21st Century..

No one can squeeze the info from me, not on the phone, here or face to face.. Read the oil article on the LN Engineering site and make your selection based on that as Charles and I worked together on it.

Oil selections are hot topics with lots of critics and experts that don't know a piston from a cylinder head, but they will argue their point based on BS in advertisements and what they have "read"... Not me, direct experience is ALL that matters.

thanks for the reply, after reading many of your posts and blogs I kind of figured that would be the answer. I guess it would be pointless to ask what you put in your car last oil change(I know, I know :D ). I have read http://www.lnengineering.com/oil.html twice. I will read it again to see if I missed anything as it is quite technical and I haven't found the cliff notes version yet :D

Can you at least tell me if putting either of these types is "not" recommended by Porsche? 10W40 (highmilage) or 5W40 (turbo diesel truck). these are the only two W40 that my local small town stores have. If not I will not ask again.

Again thanks for all your hard work on the subject. I just wish we didn't live in such a ligitious society!! :cheers:

Quote: "Not happening in the 21st Century.. "

Posted by Jake Raby.

Jake, Jake, Jake. Not in the 21st Century?? Well...I think I speak for most of us here when I say motor oil information divulged in 2100 won't do most of us any good at all!

As a former lawyer (I got tired of dealing with other lawyers, many of which are absolute pains in the butt to deal with, so I got out of the business...though I have to admit: they are an interesting crowd to have a beer with), I KNOW that, when it comes to defamation, libel, etc, TRUTH is an absolute defense.

Why don't you just make available RESULTS from tests of the various motor oils you've tested?? You don't have to make any recommendations per se. With black and white test results, reported in an unbiased manner, we can reach our own conclusions as to which motor oil to choose.

You can even have your own lawyers (I'm sure you have a team of them on retainer at all times for dealing with just such issues, Right?) draft up some sort of disclaimer to toss into the mix, to create yet another barrier to liability.

Whaddaya say, Jake? We're thirsty for reliable info! Toss us a bone here Jake! :D

Actually the 21st century started Jan 1, 2001.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/21st_century

actually 2100= 22nd century. frodo was correct in stating that info in the 2100/22nd century won't help us. Jake stated he wouldn't tell us in the 21st century meaning he will tell us in the 22nd century(which I doubt).

So +1 for Frodo

I hope this is all clear now, and we can get back to what frickin oil to use. :cool:

Nice try but unfortunately incorrect. Much like the 21st century stared Jan 1, 2001, the 22nd century begins on Jan 1, 2101. The entire year 2100 is still in the 21st century.

Quote: "Nice try but unfortunately incorrect. Much like the 21st century stared Jan 1, 2001, the 22nd century begins on Jan 1, 2101. The entire year 2100 is still in the 21st century."

Posted by timothy.

Hey, thanks for pointing that out fella. Whether it's 2100 or 2101, we'll all be dead in any case, which was basically my point. Next time I'm in the market for some entirely useless trivia, I'll give you a call...

polyol esters (base chemical in Red Line)
 

In our family of polyol ester, you find high purity dipentaerythritol, pentaerythritol and trimethylolpropane esters for use in applications where thermal stability, high viscosity index and lubricity are essential. Typical usages include raw material for spin finishers and oiling agents, lubricants, lubricating oil, and as jet engine lubricants.



The term "polyol esters" is short for neopentyl polyol esters which are made by reacting monobasic fatty acids with polyhedric alcohols having a "neopentyl" structure. The unique feature of the neopentyl structure of polyol alcohols molecules is the fact that there are no hydrogens on the beta-carbon. As a result, polyol esters usually have added polarity, reduced volatility and enhanced lubricity characteristics. This makes polyol esters ideally suited for the higher temperature applications where the performance of diesters and PAOs may fade.

Hatco uses many different acids and alcohols for manufacturing polyol esters and an even greater number of permutations are possible due to the multiple ester linkages. The difference in ester properties as they relate to the alcohols are primarily those related to molecular weight such as viscosity, pour point, flash point, and volatility. The versatility in designing these fluids is mainly related to the selection and mix of the acids esterified onto the alcohols.



The major application for polyol esters is jet engine lubricants where they have been used exclusively for more than 30 years. In this application, the oil is expected to flow at -54 C, pump readily at -40 C, and withstand sump temperature approaching 200 C with drain intervals measured in years. Only polyol esters have been found to satisfy this demanding application.


Polyol esters are also the ester of choice for blending with PAOs in passenger car motor oils. This application reduces fuel consumption and lowers volatility in modern specifications. They are used in 2-cycle oils for the same reasons plus biodegradability.


Polyol esters are used extensively in synthetic refrigeration lubricants due to their miscibility with non-chlorine refrigerants. They are also widely used in a variety of very high temperature applications such as industrial oven chains, stationary turbine engines, high temperature grease, fire resistant transformer coolants, fire resistant hydraulic fluids, and textile lubricants.

For more information about our extensive line of trimethylolpropane, pentaerythritol esters and dipentaerythritol, we encourage confidential consultation with our technically trained Business Managers who can guide you to the best products or development programs. Given of the complexity involved in balancing the physical, chemical, and performance characteristics of our extensive range of ester products with the exact application and market needs, this preliminary consultation allows for the selection of the best product based on properties determined by you or defined by your application.



You can email us at hatcoinfo@chemtura.com, or submit your requirements using our Ester Design Sheet. Either way you can count on prompt and confidential service.

How to help save your engine
 

From the Car Bible

http://www.carbibles.com/additives.html


The current trend is the "90% of your engine wear happens at startup" advertising ploy. This fact is absolutely true, but as it happens, it's less to to with "grinding engine parts" and more to do with combustion. When the combustion gases burn, they form acids which are highly corrosive when their vapours condense. These acids collect in the upper cylinder areas where their temperature is raised above their dew point. The acids condense and etch the cylinder walls and piston rings. I


n reality, this accounts for over 85% of engine wear, the other 15% being down to abrasion. So the adverts are nearly right - most of the engine wear does happen at startup, and it is because of a lack of oil, but it isn't because the oil isn't coating moving parts - it's because it's not transporting these acidic gases away. Having said that, if you start the engine and let it idle for 15 seconds or so before moving off, you can probably add another 100,000 miles to your engine's life without one bottle of additive. This warms the oil up a tad and makes sure it's in all the most vital areas before you start putting a strain on the engine.


Most handbooks tell you not to let the engine warm up before driving off (they're referring to the acid corrosion mentioned above), but they mean don't let it reach working temperature. If, however, you insist on starting up and belting off down the road, think of this next time: it takes an average engine around 3 minutes of average driving for the exhaust manifold to reach 300°C. If you blast off and run around at full throttle, right from the word go, that process takes a little under a minute. Think about it - from outside air temperature to 300°C in a minute - what exactly is that doing to the metal in your manifold? Ask anyone who's ever owned an original Audi Quattro - they'll tell you exactly what happens.


I'm not saying that these companies are having us all on, heaven knows there are plenty of statements from companies and private individuals who have reportedly reaped the benefits of these products. But in my experience, it's simply not worth the huge risk of putting the additive in there

Ignore this post

Ok, after much extensive research and discussions behind the scenes here and other boards, this is what I found out and what I am going to use. This is based on the collective recommendation of many experts, not just pointless ramblings from novices like me.

What I am using:
1.) Castrol syntec 10W40 (On sale at Napa!! 10 quarts for under $60.)
2.) Napa gold(wix) # 7211 ($16.99) Overwhelmingly the choice of experts!!
3.) K&N air filter Part #: K33332773 ($31.38)
4.) New Oil Plug & crush ring #: W0133-1646532 ($5)

A lot of people swear by royal purple ($8.99/quart). It was too pricey for me. My two choices came down to Castro, and Mobil 1 High mileage

What I have learned:
1.) Oil Companies have limited the amount of vital additives in their oil, because of the epa.
2.) It all comes down to the film between metal parts rubbing against each other, what protects them and how long it holds up.
3.) Almost all experts laugh at Porsche's recommended Oil change intervals. 7500 miles max or at least once a year, less if you track or are hard.
4.) Stay away from 30 weight oils. 40 weight seems to be the ideal choice amoung the experts.
5.) Let your car run 15 to 20 seconds before you go, but don't let it warm up to operating temps. Experts say this will dramtically reduce engine wear. 90% of engine wear happens when you start the car. Some state it will add 100k miles to your engines life. And for gods sakes let your car warm up while driving before getting on it. :cool:

I hope this helps some out there that are like me and want to make sure you are using quality stuff. :cheers:

Napa has Castro Syntec 10W40 on sales for about $5.5 a quart.

Welllllll .... ??

In reality, your crankshaft and camshafts actually never touch the bearings (which are properly called fluid film bearings), instead they float on a thin film of oil - as thin as 0.0001". This is made possible by the flow and pressure supplied to the oil by the oil pump as well as a very thin film of lubricant at a sufficiently-high pressure to match the applied load because of the relative motion between the crankshaft and the bearing. Without this pressure, the oil cannot withstand the weight of the crank alone.

But all this requires the engine to be running so the oil pump can pressurize the oil, and so the crankshaft rotations create the necessary hydrodynamic pressure. When you stop your engine, the oil pump and crank stop too and your oil pressure and hydrodynamic pressure goes away and the crank settles back in the bearing, which is OK because nothing's moving and so no wear takes place.

But, when you restart the engine, you now start turning the crank which is resting directly on the bearing (minus any residual oil film clinging to the parts) and continues to do so until the oil pump and the crank are operated at sufficient rpms to repressurize the oil and once again float the crank. 85% of engine wear occurs at startup, because you get parts moving against one another until the pressure rises enough for them to float.

This is why pre-lubers (or sometimes called pre-oilers) are popular. They are in essence externally operated pumps (usually electric, driven off the battery) which run for a few seconds to pressurize the oil, supply the bearings, and float the crank before the starter is engaged so there is no crank-to-bearing contact resulting in excess wear.

The acid theory is nice, and acids are produced as combustion by-products. But what does running the engine do? Where does this acid go? Through the pickup tube to the oil pump then out to the galleries, the top of the head only to recirculate back down to the sump? The oil still maintains it's acidity and is still in contact with the metal parts whether they're moving or still. Only exhaust gasses from the combustion chamber flow out the exhaust, except for whatever vapors the PVC valve passes from the sump to the intake or combustion chamber and out the exhaust. But, when the oil is cool, it's not releasing much vapor.

:cheers:

So, are you suggesting that one SHOULD NOT wait a few seconds before taking off? Seems prudent to me.

:eek:

NO... I'm not suggesting that at all. In fact the opposite. It takes about 10-20 sec. minimum (temp dependent, etc.) of running to fully charge the oil galleries, pressurize the system and float the moving parts.

What I am saying is that eliminating engine wear on startup is a fallacy, marketing hype by using one oil over another. The only way to significantly reduce startup wear is through a pre-luber.

Sure, the better an oil clings to metal parts while not running, the less friction it'll experience on startup, but it will not be eliminated and over the life of the engine, you'll still see 80+% of the wear accumulate from startups.

That's one of the reasons why cars with 'Highway' miles are so desireable. They experience many more miles between starts and over the life of the car can literally have thousands of fewer startups than the little old lady driving 3 mi. once a week to church and back.

:cheers:

Got it.

Thanks for clarifying.