Sumitomo HTR Z III
 

I've read nothing but positive things about the Sumitomo HTR Z III. Does anyone with experience with them have any negative experiences or comments?

Here is my experience............

Some of the best tires in non rain weather......death traps in rain. They seem very prone to hydroplaning. But Sacramento can get some nasty nasty rain and these are extreme tires so meh!

Five thousand miles here and nothing but good to report. I don't drive the Boxster in the rain, so I can't comment on that.

None of the tires in this class act well on rain... that's a given.

FYI Sumitomo is the parent company of Dunlop and also part of Goodyear.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sumitomo_Rubber_Industries,_Ltd.

I have about 3K miles on my set. I am more than happy with them. Heavy northwest rains and I feel stable and safe at high speed (regular driving where the speed limit was 70, but i wasn't going that slow ;-) ). They stick well and are very predictable. They are not the absolute stickiest tire out there, but in my opinion very nice. Be wary of reviews... many people fail to realize the HTR Z III is FARRRRRR better than the previous 2 generations. The I and II were light years behind this tire.

They have worn very evenly and hardly even noticeably in the 2K since I put them on. My girlfriend is scheduled to take the car out on the track at a DE so we will see how they do there.

I would highly recommend them to anyone. They even look good, very pirelli like.

Just my .02

Don't like them, IMO they flat spot too easily just sitting in the garage. although I have no experience with the III's. IMO, buying a performance car and being a cheap ass on tires makes no sense because the tires are a huge part of performance.

Can't comment on the Sumitomo. Never drove on them. However, if you want a great tire that sticks and is good in the rain, get the NItto's.
Nitto NT555 Extreme ZR 225/40R18 $124 each, rear 265/35R18 $181 each
Great price for a great tire. I never heard of them, but when I purchased my Boxster the former owner had these put on. I liked them so much I put them on my Jaguar XJR and could not be happier.
Eric

I actually agree with you to a point. That point is where I'm sitting. With tires, as with most things, there is a phenomenon known as diminishing returns. In general, the more you pay, the higher quality you get on an item. This can be considered a linear relationship up to a point. At this point, it becomes much more expensive, either in design effort, or in materials, or some other property, to eek out just a bit more quality.

It's very common in racing bicycles. You can get a crumby, heavy road bike for $500. It'll get you into biking to see if you really like it, but it's not going to last long and it makes hills much harder than they need to be. You can get a pretty decent, long lasting bike for $1600. It'll probably need some repairs every once in a while and the materials are pretty pedestrian. You can get a really nice, really light road bike for $3000. This bike will last tens of thousands of miles and allow you to be competitive at most levels. It's got sleek components and made from exotic materials. But for someone who's livelihood or ego depends on it, a person can spend $12,000 and get a little lighter (like 1/2 pound MAYBE), little faster, and probably just as reliable bike.

The HTR Z III performs well against more costly competitors in tests, doesn't always come out on top, but doesn't scrape the bottom either. It's got a good temperature rating, and it's treadwear is almost double some of the more costly competitors. It comes from a well established manufacturer handled by well known retailers. So clearly this tire isn't of poor quality or lacking in performance.

I don't drive at a track and if I autocross, it is not often and not competitive with anyone but myself. It's actually more rewarding for me to have driven the car in the mountains for a couple of seasons and seeing that the wear bars are still pretty far away than to have the fasted track time or to have pulled that extra 0.1g of lateral acceleration and see that another year has cost another grand in a quickly consumed purchase.

In addition, I don't necessarily agree with the notion that the stickier a street tire is, the better. I like a sports car that will be fun to drive at less than suicide speeds. Tires that give away a little earlier just mean that the fun arrives a speeds that are less likely to kill you. Vintage cars are more fun to drive than modern ones partially for this reason.

So what seems like simply "being a cheap ass" to someone without the insight, is a logical decision for someone else.

I agree with Blue on this. I have a $1600 bike that has lasted many miles and many years, has been wonderful in every aspect. It won't win me any serious bike race, but that's not what I bought it for.

I have a 944 that I race competitively. Everything makes a difference. I can spend more on solid bushings than the car is worth. But that's what it takes to make a car competitive in some classes.

For the Boxster, I put a huge amounts of miles on the car and needed less expensive tires that would last a few miles with good rain performance. I didn't need the best of the best nor did I want to pay for it. But I didn't want a crappy tire, I've had plenty of those too. (Old Nittos NT-450?, Falken Ziex 512) I have been very happy with these tires and other people on this board have been too. I can't comment on flat spotting, the car rarely sits for more than 24 hours.

Ultimately I am not buying the tires for you, that is your decision. Almost any tire you can buy in the size you need will be round and made of rubber and work perfectly fine. You should match the tire with what you expect from it.

I'm not castigating the choices of others, clearly everyone here appreciates their vehicles. All I'm saying is after reading volumes on fairly expensive upgrades in this forum I would think a tire purchase would certainly include a measurement of quality & performance. I agree with blue that highest price isn't always the best metric and diminishing returns and paying for names is a reality. My dad had one small problem with his sport pilots and Michelin was all over it! Having worked in the fortune 100 battlefield, I appreciate true customer service and product quality, not just lip service.

Remineds me of sports equipment
 

The performance issue reminds me of equipment ads for skis, golf clubs, fishing gear , and sail boats. Namely, what's the use of paying more for performance equipment if you are not going to need it?

For many years skis were advertised as "racer" models when in reality most skiiers are recreational skiers and do not have the ability to get the performance out of the product because they are not physically capable and do not race. The same is true for the other categories mentioned above and for tires.

I came here looking for paying less than PS2's because, as I drive the car, usually with wifey in board I don't NEED PS2s.
I think Silver Bullet made the most sense a good while ago, to paraphrase, "If you'r enot doing track days or driving like you are but mainly use your car to cruise, why would you buy track quality, rediculously expensive PS2s?"
I want a set that will be safe when I need it, but will mainly not cost a dime a mile to use for cruising. Someone above also made the comment on the speeds needed to have fun with really sticky, high tech tires.
We switched to a required, much harder compound, Hoosier slick for Club Ford racing. Want to guess how much more fun they were to go 2 seconds a lap slower?

I started a thread and was giving an update as I broke them in. http://www.987forum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21546

Got mine at local tire shop (tinity tires, urbana ohio) for $700 intstalled.


My take after about 700 miles is they were a great choice.

cons: Noisey, I do here/feel the road more than my Mich pilot sports. Nothing the stereo won't compensate for.
Handling is different from my Mich's, as they seem to over steer a little more.

Pros:Price, They handle very well, not a lot of rain testing but have been in a few showers, they seemed fine. Breaking was great, hard corners take a little extra effort as these are sticky tires.


conclusion: Great tires for people on a budget. I don't think they are as good as the more expensive tires, but they are close enough!! (for me at least). I don't track, I use them as a daily driver and back country, road rage!!

Thanks MP. I assume you're in Toledo. I was born in Sidney and lived in Piqua and Lima, also, before we moved to Miami in 1960! My dad owned some property on the south side of Toledo. I still have cousins and Aunt's and Uncles in and around Cincy.
Do you get together with Gregdacats in Newport, KY?
I think I'll try a set of the Sumi's. I had a couple of sets of the HTZ's on a couple of Preludes, years back now, but loved them on them.

actually I moved from toledo (cause it sucks!! and I can prove it ;) ) to Urbana ohio, between columbus and dayton. I would say if you don't have the $1300 laying around then definately go with the Sumitomo's. I have no regrets, but I have no idea what tread life will be like, but for almost half the price, I think its a no brainer for us budget minded people.

I have ~1000 miles on 17" HTRZ III's on my Boxster and I like them. It's difficult to compare directly to the last 2 sets of tires I had (PZeros and Goodyear F1 GS-D3) because I drove those tires to their absolute ends and new tires always feel a lot better when they go on. I'd say they are not noisy, they hold well and they give a good feel. I thought they seemed like they gave a little less road feel than the Goodyears at first but I think they were just "different" and I'm used to it now. The car is my daily driver but we won't have any rain until the Fall so I can't comment on wet traction. So far I'm glad I took the chance on a lower cost tire.

I think I made my point pretty clear. If you care about lap times, lower cost tires probably aren't the right choice. If you like to feel a car's limits at a safe speed, lower adhesion brings out more personality.

Thanks for all the feedback folks. It definitely sounds like these tires aren't bad at all. I'm getting near the wear bars out back on my Contis. The car's season is over in a couple of months so I'll probably order a full set of these next spring.

I just drove 800 miles from San Francisco to Tacoma, WA on a brand new set of HTR Z III. I hit a ton of rain on I-5 on the way home and the tires felt very safe and stable. I had zero hyrdo-planing issues until I hit some water that was about an inch deep. The car felt very stable and the tires provided great feedback in the rain. I would feel more confident on a rainy interstate on these over my 4runner with BFG A/T's any day of the week!

Wow I'm starting to wonder if my alignment is really aggressive which is why I have soo many issues hydroplaning with these bad boys. But it also rains really hard here in Sac often,so I may have harsher conditions then most.

Other then that I still love them! I RAPED my car last night and I only got the tires to squeal when I punched it hard in the middle of a u-turn and they still didn't break loose.

Except
 

for the one time in a tires life you have to react in an emergency mode. For that one time, the characteristics of a tire may save your life...or may not. May save your car, or not.

I've had tires cost me a Boxster and a VW. In the one case I was driving on UHPS tires and the road was cold and I just slid on top of the pavement instead of the rubber digging in to the micro indents in the pavement..not even a Boxster's brakes could save the car. In the other, the dealer that sold me the car switched the tires on me from good tread when I bought the car to almost bald when I picked the car up in the dark. Slid going around a curve when the fronts just didn't bite at all.

Go look at the tirerack comparisons and see the stopping distance and imagine that you have to stop to prevent your car hitting something or someone. Think how much faster that hit will be if you have 2 car lengths difference in stopping distance ... which can happen between 2 tires.

Whatever you do, drive cautiously the first 200-300 miles. And read the tirerack discussion of wear versus stopping distance and don't run the tires to the wear bars if you drive in the wet. I've seen someone killed doing that. Hit a puddle at the beginning of a bridge and started playing pinball off the concrete bridge abutments. I sailed through the same puddle at the same speed just fine.

These guys have really impressive prices, bested tirerack by about $45 shipped.

http://www.onlinetires.com/

As you can see by my siggy line, I bought the Sumis.
Only about 1k miles, so far, but am very happy with them. They are more sticky and more quiet than the PS2s they replaced, but the PS2s were GONE, so take the comment with a major grain of salt. They're better in the rain, but the PS2s were almost slicks!
I did extensive research on them and found two tests that included PS2s to Bridgestone RE050s in one and RE050s to HTR ZIII. The Bridgy number on the tests was almost identical (7.2 in one 7.35 in other). The PS2 number to the HTR number was about 5% different, with the PS2 higher (7.92 - 8.15 or there abouts).
The HTR's points loss was wet traction. Dry traction numbers were identical to PS2.
Now, considering I could buy a complete set of Sumis and two new pairs of rears for less than the PS2s, I sure don't see it as being a "cheap ass" as someone said above.
I also bought the OZ wheels at the same time, but I think the Sumis were about $725 mounted and balanced, plus freight.

PS2 Price Drop
 

I have always ran Michelins on all my vehicles. I have PS2 on my car now and recently noticed when searching the websit a price drop. At the end of last year I was seeing around $288 a piece for 265/40/17 and now they are around $213.00.

Here is a test of ten tires - may help you decide.

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/comparisons/09q2/tire_test_nine_affordable_summer_tires_take_on_the _michelin_ps2-comparison_tests/michelin_pilot_sport_ps2_page_2

Four days in shipping and the tires are sitting in the garage! I should have the car out of storage this week (50F tomorrow) so that I can get them mounted and try them out.

mixing HTRZIII R & PS2 F..?
 

[QUOTE=Quickurt] The HTR's points loss was wet traction. Dry traction numbers were identical to PS2.
Now, considering I could buy a complete set of Sumis and two new pairs of rears for less than the PS2s, I sure don't see it as being a "cheap ass" as someone said above.

Did you considered running the PS2 on the front with the Sumis on the rear..?

What optimal tire pressures are you guys running with the HTRZ-III?

I've experimented with standard 29F/36R, 30F/36R, 31F/32F/33F/34F&36R setups... Not entirely sure which I like best yet, but it's quite variable for me, since I've been experimenting with different front and rear damper stiffness settings as well.

[QUOTE=Gilles] It's generally not the best idea to mix the front and rear tire manufacturers.

I put the Falken 912's on mine. Great grip wet or dry...awful in the snow from what I've read. So far, the are handling well. Not made for track, just pleasure driving with a little attitude. :cheers:

i have about 5k on my htr II and they seem to do well. They do not like damp pavement at all.

I don't know if they are HTR I's, II's, or III's Z's on the 02 I bought in August. Picked it up and drove throught 2 states in the rain with no problem. Weather cleared for Fri. rush hour in Chicago. Next day cruise through Wi., corner of Iowa, and MN good, with one problem that still re occurs. I live in North Dakota and the car has been a daily driver all but maybe 5 days because of blizzards. The traction is better with the HTR's than my pickup has in 2 wheel drive.

The secret is to drive for the conditions and not the cars maximum potential.

Oh, and the re occurring problem is other drivers pulling in front of me to show how fast they are and then the drivers slowing down because they don't have the ability to handle the limited number of curves we have in this state of flat straight roads, when the Boxster wants to start showing it's stuff.

The 987 has 30/37 as standard pressures. I found 28/36 gave the best wear on the PS2s, so I've set up the new Sumis the same. So far, I have no discernable wear, so as I put more miles on them I should be able to see.
These are cruising pressures.

Have Continental Sport Contact on mine and lov'n it. But want more grip on wet so I'm going with the Continental DW (rear tires getting bald). Anybody have these one their Porsche?

Cheepest So Far
 

HTRZIII:

Discount-tires-2go = 356 before shipping
onlinetires.com = 330 before shipping

Michelin PS2
 

I was looking at the Michelins. Not interested in the HTRZIII.

I've had the Sumis on for a couple of weeks now. Going from Continental Extremecontacts, there's a noticeable improvement in dry road grip. Steering response is maybe just a bit more crisp. Steering feel is actually improved. I notice alot more road texture through the steering. Feels like I'm on rails with the M030 suspension and dry roads.

I haven't had a chance to see what breakaway feels like. That will come when the mountain roads are a little less sandy. The Contis were very progressive and gave alot of warning.

Flatspotting really isn't any more noticeable than with the Contis. No objectionable road noise.

Ride is firm but acceptable. The tire shop noted that the stiff sidewall made the tires a challenge to mount.

So far, I'm very happy. What a great car.

I've been able to push my HTRs a little more and they are feeling very progressive and communicative on breakaway. I haven't broken them all the way loose, yet, but the feedback is very good. I am gaining lots of confidence with them.
My bankrupt, houseless housing development has been purchased and they are building houses in it, so I'm searching for a new "test track." My pic, below, was taken at the brick round-a-bout and the covered area in the background is at the opposite corner of the 8 turn, .9 mile circuit.

Five months now, a couple thousand miles, lots of mountain drives. I really like these tires. The grip is quite high and there's plenty of warning on breakaway. I'll definitely buy another set.

They definitely flat spot over time, but that's not a big deal.