Advice / Opinions on a 2000 S

[Lil bastard]

Originally Posted by Fastback

...The red interior which I'm starting to like more is still worrying since I don't know if it's considered girly...

I read somewhere that a 'girl' car is defined as a model that was sold as a Barbie doll accessory.

Well, if that's true, then yes... the Boxster is a girl car:



But then, so is the Corvette, VW Beetle and Jeep CJ5, all standout cars and not a bad list to belong to.

And, who will ever forget Scudería Ferrari Barbie? Does that make Ferraris 'girly' too?





It doesn't matter if some consider it 'girly'... it only matters if YOU consider it 'girly'.

[ekam]

Damn I shouldn't have spent my money for a life-size one.

http://www.buysellcommunity.com/sale/EZJZDHXD

[Perfectlap]

quick question to all:

if the Boxsters are averaging a loss of $4-5K a year, I'm sure my math is off, are these cars literally going to go to $5K or less at some point? Let's say you have an enthusiast owned Boxster that has been well maintained, paint is still shiny, no dings, interior is solid, engine runs fine, all maintenace is performed when does the depreciation for this car stop and value holds? That's what I'm looking forward to. I don't think I'm ever going to sell this car as long as garage space allows.

[Lil bastard]

Originally Posted by Perfectlap

quick question to all:

if the Boxsters are averaging a loss of $4-5K a year, I'm sure my math is off, are these cars literally going to go to $5K or less at some point? Let's say you have an enthusiast owned Boxster that has been well maintained, paint is still shiny, no dings, interior is solid, engine runs fine, all maintenace is performed when does the depreciation for this car stop and value holds? That's what I'm looking forward to. I don't think I'm ever going to sell this car as long as garage space allows.

Good questions with no very clear answers, especilly for the long term.

Today, I believe there are 4 main factors influencing Boxster depreciation, some less and others more:

One is it's not so sterling reputation for dependability, high ownership costs and also performance. It's plagued with issues that cost a ton to fix and also offers less performance (excluding handling) than many lower priced cars costing much less to both buy and maintain.

2nd, Porsche has produced so many of them that rarity doesn't prop up their price in the used market - there are too many to choose from.

3rd, the economy right now (and probably for some time to come) is depressing all car prices, but especially those in the sports car and 'toy' car categories. This also goes for 'collectibles' as the recent round of high-end auctions (scottsdale, pebble beach, etc.) shows. In scottsdale this past month, a rare french car which was not sold at the RM auction in '06 at $660K - reserve price not met, failed to climb any higher than $330K this year (bet that owner sees a Jackass every time he now looks in the mirror!).

Finally, we are at the beginning of the end for all IC cars. Hybrids, Fuel Cell, Electrics are soon going to be widely available and steal the market for IC cars of all types. You'll see a slow (but steady) deterioration of the infrastructure for IC cars (mechanics, aftermarket, gas stations, etc.). It'll be almost imperceptible at first, but gain steady ground. One thing about our modern society is that we can very quickly saturate a market (can you remember a time when cell phones were uncommon?). The whole personal transportation market will look very different in just 10 yrs. time, and none of it will favor IC car prices.

All that said, those dedicated to keeping their cars will be able to fairly easily for probably another 25 yrs. And, the past few issues of Panorama have had several 'creampuff' '99s still offered in the $15k-$18k range (and one assumes they're selling because they aren't being carried over month-to-month). At least I hope so because that's where mine is going to appear next month.

[Perfectlap]

^ sure there are pitfalls with owning the 996/986 engine, but there have been engine pitfalls with virtually every Porsche! Choose your poison $6K crate water cooled or $14-$20K air cooled rebuild (I'm guessing those rates have DOWN recently). It's always buyer beware with Porsche yet there is still a decent pool of enthusisasts for all the Porsche's 928, 944, 911, 993. You could well argue that the 986 and 996 are probably the lowest cost of ownership of any 'enthusiast' owned Porsche. Personally speaking my BoxsterS, believe it or not, has been the most trouble free 50K miles of any car I or any relative in my family has ever owned. Yes the Boxster!! The 2000 and newer evolution of Porsche reliability has been ground-breaking. Of course the engine design flawes are still a source of anxiety.

As for as performance.... Well there are a few cars out there that could give a Boxster a run for the money, certainly on a dollar basis. But I'll tell you what, if you sold my BoxsterS at current market values and I told you that you had to buy another car with an equal level of fun factor/excitement, classic styling, brand prestiege and performance--ALL these things not just a few-- You couldn't come back with a better car without spending more.
Well put it this way, park a second hand:

Porsche BoxsterS,
BMW Z3,
BMW Z4,
Honda S2000,
Mazda Miata Turbo,
Mercedes Benz SLK
Pontinac Solstice,
Saturn Sky

all parked next to each other (wow there are not many roadsters!), all with terrific maintenance and records, A+ condition, all with at least 50K miles, from different years-- to bring them all down to the same second hand price point let's say $12K....Which car is going to get the most buyers?

[Lil bastard]

Originally Posted by Perfectlap

^ sure there are pitfalls with owning the 996/986 engine, but there have been engine pitfalls with virtually every Porsche! Choose your poison $6K crate water cooled or $14-$20K air cooled rebuild (I'm guessing those rates have DOWN recently). It's always buyer beware with Porsche yet there is still a decent pool of enthusisasts for all the Porsche's 928, 944, 911, 993. You could well argue that the 986 and 996 are probably the lowest cost of ownership of any 'enthusiast' owned Porsche. Personally speaking my BoxsterS, believe it or not, has been the most trouble free 50K miles of any car I or any relative in my family has ever owned. Yes the Boxster!! The 2000 and newer evolution of Porsche reliability has been ground-breaking. Of course the engine design flawes are still a source of anxiety.

As for as performance.... Well there are a few cars out there that could give a Boxster a run for the money, certainly on a dollar basis. But I'll tell you what, if you sold my BoxsterS at current market values and I told you that you had to buy another car with an equal level of fun factor/excitement, classic styling, brand prestiege and performance--ALL these things not just a few-- You couldn't come back with a better car without spending more.
Well put it this way, park a second hand:

Porsche BoxsterS,
BMW Z3,
BMW Z4,
Honda S2000,
Mazda Miata Turbo,
Mercedes Benz SLK
Pontinac Solstice,
Saturn Sky

all parked next to each other (wow there are not many roadsters!), all with terrific maintenance and records, A+ condition, all with at least 50K miles, from different years-- to bring them all down to the same second hand price point let's say $12K....Which car is going to get the most buyers?

No Arguement here... what I said is that they are plagued with a: "not so sterling reputation for dependability, high ownership costs and also performance".

You're defending a position which was never mentioned. I simply replied to your question of depreciation with what I'm seeing out there. The car has issues with it's reputation in the gen'l. public, some well deserved. Like the Edsel, which was actually a very good, dependable car, it's just that no one wanted it - there was no niche for it in Ford's marketing scheme, but it was a fine car nonetheless. It's reputation for quality/dependability was born of the fact that no one bought it, not that it had actual issues.

Sure, if you can convince the gen'l public that it isn't all that expensive (i doubt that), and that it really does outperform the vette, Mitzu's, Subu's, 'Stangs, etc. (subjective and not likely to convince a stoplight racer (or equally important, his friends and girlfriend), etc.) ... and that this superior performance is worth all the other factors of ownership, then you'd see the prices rise and buyers aplenty.

[Perfectlap]

well now that all the various segments of the 986 (96-99,00-02,03-04) are out there and getting their mileage racked up, I think we will start sifting the cars that you say are plagued with costly repairs from those which are plagued with anxiety. Maybe that will increase or decrease buyer anxiety. Seems to me, RMS and IS issue aside, that the earlier versions of the 986 have attributed for much of the problems. That's just my guess though. It just follows logic that a new model will have its quirks to work out. The IS issue is a huge hurdle (not so much the RMS, kinda overblown).... but will we see a rash of these detonating egines as the mileages start to climb? Or is it an issue that after a certain point the surviving fleet is mostly out of woods?

The other issue also (on depreciation) is that I don't really think this car is, well nicely preserved ones, are as common in the second hand market as people believe it to be. Sure they made a whole heck fo a lot of 996 and 986 vs. previous Porsches, certainly plenty enough to choose from NOW. But how many will be well maintained say 8 to 10 years from now? Several members on this forum have contacted me saying that its hard to find a well maintained Boxster, even in this economy, that a current owner is willing to part with at thse prices. Tons of high mileage, not so pristine cars out there just collecting snow and rain on used car lots. Who wants to spend a bunch of money on expensive paint, wheels and leather repair just to get a car back to stock? Sounds like track fodder to me....Generally speaking in the future I think folks are going to be much more demmanding with their limited toy car budgets in the future. The consumer is spending less and expecting more. That could be good news for enthusiast owned cars.

It's going to be interesting to see what happens in the long run.