Scared new Boxster owner
 

Hi all! I've been a bimmer driver for 20 years and decided to cross over to the dark side this weekend. I just bought a 2000 S model w/38k from a Porsche dealership. The only reason I went with one that old was that it is in incredible condition. Full service history, sold new at this dealership etc. They did their 155 pt. inspection/replace thing and even put brand new mich. pilots all around...

My big concern is: I'm reading all over the place about catastrophic engine failures. It kind of puts a knot in my stomach having one of these cars out of wtty. I never had these kinds of problems with my bmws in the past.....

Can anyone say anything to make me feel better???

Thanks in advance!

sean

Nope, your screwed. You're sitting in an inflatable life raft in the middle of the ocean, the raft has a hole in it and you are asthmatic. You have jumped out of an airplane with a backpack full of bricks instead of a parachute. You've climbed into a sleeping bag full of rattlesnakes.

Come on people!!!!!!! The internet isn't always right and paranoia never leads to good things. Just enjoy your frickin' Porsche!

Hi Sean

Welcome to the dark side, I've had my 01 S for 2 years and never had any problems with the car apart from a annoying alarm niggle which I'm getting sorted.

I use the S as my every day car 70miles per day come rain or shine or Evan snow for that matter.

PLEASE use year S and don't do as so many other do, HIDE it in a garage and only to let it lose on a nice sunny day, BORRING!!!

I've fitted a cracking s/s sports exhaust and had the engine remap and few other little tweaks .

I never get bored of that noise or driving it.

I hope this goes a little way to put your mind it rest, have fun .
:)
Mark

Surely it's not on the original engine with that kind of mileage? Most people see 5-10k miles before an engine/transmission full rebuild. I got almost 8,000 miles out of my first engine and that was pure luck!

But you should be fine as long as you've budgeted $12,000 every, say, 7500 miles for a new motor. They swap 'em in and out really fast at all the dealers. Most people just do that rather than an oil change, even if the motor hasn't let go yet.

Enjoy!

Matt

The number of cars that have had catastrophic engine failure is a very small percentage, but design weaknesses have been identified. That said, there is always the possibility that any of us could be the next to go, but I wouldn't lose sleep over it.

Spend some time reading the posts by Jake Raby or visit his site www.flat6innovations.com. Oil change maintenance (every six thousand miles) is very important with these engines to extend reliability, as they are subject to fuel contamination in the oil that can lead to problems.

Drive and enjoy your new ride!

I think a couple of the replies weren't exactly what he had in mind. The sarcasm can be felt from here. I bought a 1998 with 46K miles on it 1.5 years ago. Thus far not a bit of trouble whatsoever. The only problem is I don't get time to drive it as often as I would like. But as others have said, you have it now so drive it and ENJOY !

Sean, these guys are teasing you a lot, but your issue hits me close to home, because I recently bought a 1999 with 15K miles and had the exact same thoughts. Ever since then I have been researching every source I can find, and this is what I think now:

1. There have been something like 200,000 Boxsters produced. I have found maybe 100 to 200 reports of engine failure, and many of these may be repeats. Check the NHTSA web site -- you'll find about 11 reports. Check the Better Business Bureau -- no reports of Boxster engine failure. Check Consumer Reports -- the Boxster is rated "Better Than Average" or "Much Better Than Average" for "Major Engine Problems" (recent "Best and Worst of 2009 Automobiles", was on the newsstands a couple of weeks ago).

2. My independent mechanic has been in business for years and is the only independent that I know of in the greater KC metro area. He said he is aware of "a couple" of engines blowing up. "A couple" isn't very many, considering how many are on the roads here.

3. If the problem is as bad as everyone says, why aren't there THOUSANDS, or TENS OF THOUSANDS, of reports? If the failure rate is 10% of 200,000 Boxsters, wouldn't we expect to see 20,000 reports? Not just in forums like these, but at the BBB and NHTSA? I found maybe 200 reports, tops. Did the other 19,800 people have an engine blow up and just bent over and took it in the shorts without even complaining? If so, their response is sure a lot milder than mine would be. And I gotta wonder, why does everyone here seem to like their car so much if it is really a time bomb.

4. Google "Porsche" and "still on the road" and you get statistics from 60% up to 96%. Considering how many Boxsters have been produced, if 20,000 of them had failures, I don't see how those statistics could hold up. Of course this could all be BS but still . . .

5. Having said that, I'd hazard a SWAG that the actual failure rate is maybe 1%. Note that 1% is still a lot of engines -- more than enough for Mr. Jake Raby to analyze and work on. It's also a much higher engine failure rate than, say, a Honda or Toyota. I'd wager the rate is totally unacceptable in the industry. But at 1%, that still gives the rest of us a 99% chance that there will be NO problems. Dunno about you, but if I get a 99% on a test, I feel pretty good.

6. I know, I know, lots of people posting here have had failures, and some people have even had multiple engine failures, and they will tell you the failure rate MUST be much worse because something bad happened to them. I certainly sympathize, but anecdotal evidence that doesn't contradict the overall statistics. And, for all we know, maybe these people are abusing their cars and not taking proper care of them. It's the internet, anybody can claim to drive like my granny and that they change the oil every 1000 miles.

7. Bottom line is, like me, you're stuck with the car now, whether you like it or not. You'd lose more money than a new Jake Raby engine if you tried to trade it in again. So, you may as well enjoy it. Enjoy it, but come up with a back up plan of what you will do if you are one of the unfortunate ones. My "plan" is to save like hell for a new Jake Raby engine and pray that I never need it. I think the odds favor me. Now, please excuse me while I pray . . .

You want to feel better? Go back to the dealership and ask if there's a warranty you can purchase on the car, if not there are a few aftermarket ones you can buy.

Or you can do like the last guy that owned your car for 38K miles, drive the piss out of it and enjoy yourself!! :cheers:

SeanZ4, welcome to the forum. Jake said the perfect sttement just yesterday:
I bought my MY99 with 78k on the OD, it now has nearly 104k on it i drive it daily, I autocross it at least once a month (even won coverall class champ with it). Educate yourself on the quirks of this fun car, education is knowledge, knowledge is peace of mind. Enjoy! :cool:

Welcome to the forum:

I have a 2000 base Boxster and bought it about 10 months ago with 30,000 miles. So far, I have drove it about 10,000 miles (several 500+ mile trips) and the car is completely reliable. No problems at all. Just drive it and enjoy.

Eric

We will never have data on this issue so it is really a shot in the dark.

One thing we DO know is how expensive it is to recover from an engine failure. This is not true for all other cars but certainly, most of us blanch when we hear the tab on a used or rebuilt engine for our Box.

Since the car is tough to work on, most of us could not replace the engine ourselves so we have to add labor. Some of us could actually do an engine on a Miata or a Corvette I think.

I can tell you that the number of engine failures is MUCH higher than 100-200 in the Boxster run.

How do I know.? When I was dealing Porsches, I had a good buddy who was the svs manager at the local dealer. I mentioned to him that everytime I walked around the svs bays, I saw an engine/trans unit or 2 out of a car. He told me they did a new engine PER WEEK on average.

I didn't believe him but then I saw that he was serious. Whoa baby!

This same guy got the factory to eat half the cost on a 99 carerra engine in a car that I sold to some guy. At 66K miles, he was on the freeway and BAM, all gone.

Sad but true. Beautiful 911, one owner, great service records and the whole deal.

Where is the $1500 engine when you need it?

:D

If it makes you feel better, the online forum was my reason to not buy a 7 series BMW for the family cruiser. It was also the reason to pass on an S-Class Mercedes. If you talk to an owner of either, they will sing praises till your deaf. These things scare you, often without justice.

I bought a lexus because it didn't have horror stories on the forums. Overkill, yes.

I heard there's going to be a terrorist attack in multiple american cities in the next few days. Stay away from major airports, train and subway stations and large buildings.

I also heard on CNN that there's these killer bees coming from south africa.

And those germs on door knobs and your keyboard at work.

And, you might as well try to stay home tomorrow, you might get hit by a dump truck or a hummer... brain juice is hard to clean off those roll bars.

This forum is getting worse day by day...

I am not singling out the guy who started this thread, but these constant "I am so afraid of an engine failure" posts are starting to get very annoying. There is nothing to worry about. If it happens, it happens, life is too short to worry about things you cannot control (knock on wood). There have been over 200,000 Boxsters sold, and the vast majority of them run perfectly.

Greetings fellow new Boxster owner. Being a new owner, I'm probably still seeing ownership through rose colored glasses however, allow me to share with you some of my thoughts, and research. When the later 98-99's came out they suffered from the 'slipped sleeve' issue, from what I've been able to gather, Porsche did a silent recall in that they replaced the engines while trying not to make any noise. Regardless, not getting off on the right foot with customers. The other issue, IMS failures, seam to occur on a percentage of horizontality opposed Porsche engines, we'll have to deal with them but there seam to be a few things as owners we can do.

When my wife and I researched our purchase, we "sampled" the market on E-bay. What we would do is search Porsche>Boxster>1997-2004>sort from lowest price. I no longer have the papers I jotted down the info on so I don't have hard numbers but basically we were looking for 'rollers' and found very few. Most of the rollers were unfortunately due to vandalism :barf: One was due to flooding. Plenty of wrecks, and lots over 100k on the odometer. In short, while there is a risk, the cars are great drivers, the prices have dropped dramatically, making now an attractive entry point!

The sarcasm aside, I'm a prospective buyer of either a 2000 Bosxter S, like yours, or either a BMW 330Ci or e46 M3 to be specific, and as a college student I don't know if I can pull the trigger on a gamble on a design flaw out of the factory, the BMW while still expensive wouldn't worry me as much. It's easy to say just drive it and deal with it if something happens, but I'm not in the position financially to deal with it if it does happen, that's the worrisome part for me, an e46 is looking more secure for me.

That aside, it's important to remember that 100% of people with problems come online to post about problems, and 5% will come on here just to say they love their car. Every car has it's issues, but what that means is that it's going to seem a lot more negative than it really is because people are on here for solutions, the ones that are working fine are out there enjoying their cars, think about it like a shop... Everyones there for some kind of trouble, no ones there because they want to, and it's going to seem like all cars are unreliable... I'm sure you get it?

Now on to your situation, really, you're already in it, enjoy the car that will bring you the joy no other car can, for thebpeice of mind you're seeking look for some aftermarket warranties, or go have a Porsche tech give it a really thorough look through, and drive it like you stole it, the Porsches that fail are the ones sitting in a garage all the time, enjoy your car, most likely if the interior was cared for, so was everything else!

Just to clarify what 941MXVET said:
Slipped Sleeve failure affected 1999 Boxster's manufactured in the first few months of 1999. RMS affects all models, and IMS only affects 2001+ Boxsters due to the redesigned intermediate shaft, but some pre-'01 IMS failures have been reported (rarely).

I would be willing to bet no one could find more than maybe 500 documented Boxster engine failures. Everyone with a problem does a google search and post here, very few people come to this forum without a problem.

Would the 2000 be a sweet-spot per se? RMS is no big deal as long as corrected early, as with any car, right? And that would probably be it for the bigger issues right?

Thanks Rick3000, I got a little long winded. Nineteen89, search all the 2000 Boxster S's for sale, find what their average milage is, and how many if any are being sold as rollers.

Why do people who drive cars capable of 150 mph act like such little girls at times. You've got a Porsche because you wanted to be cool, you wanted to impress people or like the majority of Boxster owners you wanted the pleasure of driving a really nice car. Everyone got what they wanted, but there is nothing for nothing. Before I got my Boxster I drove a souped up 64 MGB for 25 years that was almost as fast as the Box. It was more dependable than any stock B but I still couldn't take it on any trip where I couldn't get it towed home. The only thing was that I could work on it. Be happy that you drive such dependable cars. Ed

SeanZ4 - I am also a new first time Porsche/Boxster S owner and I know exactly how you feel. I agree with all the posts on this thread. The number of engine failures must be a very small percentage, but you hear a lot about the ones that have failed and it scares you.
We should probably start a thread about cars without major engine problems just to contrast all the negative stuff folks have said. In fact I'm going to start that thread right now...

Dave S.

Thank you all!!
 

Thanks for all your great responses. I DO feel a little better now. I had a 325Cic before this car and a Z4 before that and 2 Z3s before that going back to the mid 90s. They were all wonderful cars. It is a third car for me, so the biggest challenge will be to get out and drive it.

johnsimion: who's your mech. in KC?? I'm in the Manhattan/Salina area. I'd like to find a good indie..

Once again, thank you guys for all your wisdom!

sean

well said.
:cheers:

Bottom line to it (despite my joking post no. 4) is that I wouldn't buy a Boxster that's out of warranty or soon to go out of warranty unless I could stroke a check for a new motor. It happens. I believe it's much more often than with many makes of cars, and definitely more expensive. I would make sure I knew what I was going to do if the motor went from an IMS and I was out of warranty. Would I pay $12k to get another from PCNA? Would I have a rebuild by one of the guys who's doing that now? Would I have to just park the car because I couldn't afford to fix it? What would I do? It's a question I wouldn't ask if I were buying a Miata because the motor costs about $2000, and is very unlikely to let go. I bought my car with 4 years of warranty, so I never considered the question. It expired in December '08, so now I'm on my own dime. If it happens it happens. But if I couldn't write a check for the repair I would be a little worried. In fact, I'd be looking at selling, probably. Not because I THINK it's going to happen, but just the idea that I might get stuck with a problem that's hard to solve.

I'm really writing all this as a reality check for the people who are considering the raft of Boxsters now available for under $15k. It seems like a screaming bargain to those of us who paid a lot more for one, but I fear that many people in that price range will just barely be able to afford the $13k for the car, and if they think, "Wow! I could get a 99 Boxster for my bread or a 2006 Miata. Hmmm, Boxster is the clear choice," I would urge them to think about the questions I have posed above.

For many other people, a $13,000 Boxster is a 3rd or 4th car and a blown motor would be a PITA, but not a catastrophe. Just the sort of thing you would have to hide from your wife, telling her you loaned the car to your best friend for a couple of weeks or something, then grumbling about "the hit we took in the market this week because of those damn Wall Street pirates!!!" :)

Matt

Sean, I just married a Porsche and a BMW and they are living happily in my garage. I can hear them whispering sweet nothings to one another in German after I turn out the garage lights and close the door.

I had the same freaked-out feelings you have when I bought my old, far higher mileage, far more beat up boxster four and a half years ago. Yes, I've sunk quite a bit into repairs and even more into mods, but the car is simply amazing and I wouldn't trade my old box in on another one to tell you the truth... even if my motor blows. I'll put a Jake Raby rebuild in it and thrash it even more when I take it out to the back roads of central Texas or to the Texas World Speedway for high speed driver's education weekends.

The longer you drive and enjoy your Porsche, the less you will worry about repairs or a motor blowing. Trust me.

Now go out and drive that car like you stole it. Remember, the car really needs you to redline it in every gear, especially 6th gear now and then when you're doing 160 :)

Well I guess my even bigger fear has come true, I'm going to have to wait to get my Porsche until I CAN write a check for $12,000 and not let it shake my finances, and only when I have another DD, Sean I'm sure you know lots about BMW's, is then330ci pretty bullet proof as far as MAJOR failures? I'm assuming it's similar to your 325, or how about an M3?

Welcome to the club! It's impossible to say whether yours will blow up or not. Odds are it won't!!. One thing you might want to do, however, is to investigate an extended warranty from either the dealer (doubtful but, I suppose, possible) or an after-market one. I bought my 01 three + years ago and got a Warranty Direct top of the line complete coverage package, which covers it up to 100K miles. Cost was something around 2,300 or so, but it covers pretty much everything on the car. Was it worth it? hmmmm not from a cost standpoint since I've YET to have to use the warranty (knock on wood). But the peace of mind was certainly worth it.

I got the car with 23K on the odo. It now has 65+K on it. I track it at least twice a year and drive it almost daily. Not a single problem (ok I had to replace the ignition switch but that was all of $35 and a couple of hours time including going to the Audi dealer to pick up the part). I change the oil and filter every 5 - 7 K miles. I've changed the brake pads several times (for track use mainly and once because the original pads were worn out) And I changed the front rotors. All the above, except the ignition, were just wear items.

Mine, so far, has been totally dependable. Its one of the easiest cars I've ever owned to work on. (Brake pads take, what..an hour or so to change all four. Rotors took about an hour. no big deal)

My advice.. join PCA, look into getting a warranty (after much research as to what kind and from who), read the forums, change oil twice as often as the book recommends, get some good winter tires (I personally like the Dunlop Winter Sport, but there are several other good options) and DRIVE IT! You'll be a happy camper :)

Bob

The E46s (1999-2005) are pretty bullet-proof. As far as major failures, figure on very seldom to never. The 2.5 and 3.0 are of the smoothest most reliable straight sixes in the world. Just my opinion, but I've owned half a dozen of them with -0- problems. Cooling issues will be your worst problem. They do tend to eat water pumps and blow expansion tanks...very common on a higher mileage one. Some of the earlier E46s had problems with the VANOS system too... but still not a major issue. As far as a M3?? Well, I've never had one of those, but they are a completely different animal. Considerable more expense in maint. I would guess. Most importantly, if you are young (I am not), check your insurance on a M3 before buying!! You can go to E46fanatics or bimmerforums and get lots of questions answered. Just like here, you only hear from the people with problems. For not much $$ you can mod out a 325ci or 330ci to look just like a M. They have entire sections on it if you're so inclined. If you're going to use it as your "only" or "daily driver" I'd go with the 3 car just for practicality.

sean

Thanks Bob.

I have an uncle in Overland Park with an 01 that he bought new. He's had no problems with it other than a serp. belt broke on it at 4k on I-70.

I bought mine at Scholfield Porsche in Wichita. They sold it new and ran it through a pretty impressive check list. They even replaced the ashtray door because they said "it was cosmetically unacceptable".... Normally I'd shy away from a stealership, but they put a full drive-train wtty. on it %100 coverage for 90 days, and showed me all the serv. record since new. They're supposed to mail me a copy of all that this week. I'm thinking about an aftermarket wtty. for piece of mind at the very least.

sean

Probably the best course of action. In a way, you're probably wasting $2000+, but unless you want to "self insure," it's not a bad plan. Funny thing is, if you had owned the car yourself since new and it had the same number of miles on it, you would probably think it was completely bulletproof and would not even consider adding a $2000 warranty now. You'd just drive it and figure WTH, if it blows it blows. That's how I am right now with a 4-year OEM warranty that just ran out 30 days ago.

But the exact same car, if I had just bought it yesterday, even if I knew for a fact that it had never had any issues, would be scaring me. Funny how psychology works. If you buy an extended warranty you will have spent money that will probably be wasted, but it is a relatively small, manageable amount. If you don't spend it, you will be gambling on a potentially very large bill if the worst happens; unlikely, sure, but more likely than on a Lexus.

Matt

It's only money :-}

Hell, in 2008 I lost enough money in the market for 2 IMS failures and a new tranny. I'm still enjoying life!

Drive it like you stole it.

000 Boxster S
Don't worry -- Be Happy!

I have a 2000s with the following engine history

No problems until 46K
46K replace drive belt tensioner pully
46k power steering hose replaced
77K O2 sensor
79K DME replaced
79K Oil separator
79K Air Mas Sensor
79K Right Cam Cover Seal
82K Water Pump
82K Left Cam Cover Seal
88K Vacuum Reservoir and Change over Valve
Current mileage 95K

I have a 2001 BMW 3 series with 135K and the Boxster maintenance is comparable.

These problems are about average in my experience with German cars.

If it will make you feel any better, my 2000 S just turned 100K.

hey congrats on crossing over to the dark side. the grass is greener here too..

When i got my 986 I was worried once I came on this forum and others online. Try not to worry. I became very paranoid with every sound and imperfection i felt in the car.

this is a sports car, enjoy it. it wont be perfect but its a different and better experience than a BMW.

take care of it and it will take care of you.

be resourceful with mods and maintenance. theres alot of advice, parts and mods out there cheap and available which can enhance your experience.

JUST DRIVE IT LIKE YOU STOLE IT

Sean: You asked who is my indie mech in KC? Aaron or Eric at www.bobhindsonracinginc.com or www.kcporsche.com. They are located a few blocks south of downtown. Nice guys to talk to, and seem to know their stuff. I hope not to get to know them too well, however. LOL

Ive got a 98 box with straight pipes its my daily driver its got over 90k on it, I love the car to death and Ive never had anything big go wrong... and I drive pretty fast. Just maintain it put some nice oil in it and love the car, and it will love you. :)

Just bought my 2000 base from dealership less than 2 months ago with 42k miles and so far:

cracked coolant reservoir - $1200 dealer fix
alternator - $400
alternator bracket - $770

picking it up tomorrow from the shop and bidding that car adieu.

the maintenance is ridiculous...

maybe i'll get back into p cars later on when i can afford a DD AND a toy...

Everybody nows the Boxster is more expensive than a normal car to maintain, but the alternator is common on every car and the coolant tank is common on the Boxster. I wouldn't write the Boxster off after you've already put $2k into it to get it running well.
In my first three months of ownership I had to have vacuum leak and seat belt receptacle replaced. Since then I have had no problems.

seems like the most delicate sports car i've ever driven..
like i have to drive it very carefully so as not to disturb it.

i love driving it like a sports car (semi aggressive.. mostly quick accels)
but it seems like every time i do, something breaks..

and i dread doing it that one time and leaving me with a broken engine or trans...

we'll see... maybe when i get it back and see her again, i'll fall in love all over again :)

Every engine has a chance of dying right? The truth is, people don't come online and tell everyone that their engine is living, they only report things if they go wrong. From the thousands of Boxsters around the country, only a few vehicles have faced engine failure.

Just get out there and enjoy, if you are feeling too paranoid then I perhaps it's best to go Japanese, perhaps an S2000?