Engine Replacement Comparative Costs

[Brucelee]

http://www.everdrive.com/skus/AA/5001663-1999-PORSCHE-BOXSTER-Engine.htm

Quite by accident, I found the site above, which lists a used Box engine with 3 yr warrranty for $6400 shipping included.

What was equally interesting to me was that the same site lists an engine for a Lexus 4.0 V* at $1200.

Now I have never heard of a Lexus V8 pooping out but the difference above just seems mind blowing to me.

Imagine if you could buy an engine for your Box for $1200. Would make that 1998 Boxster selling down the street for $8500 look pretty good, no?



PS-These guys sell Nissan 300ZX engines for about $1600.

[ekam]

That's obviously a picture of a boxster engine!

[idheaton]

Wow...a 3 year unlimited mileage warranty on a used Boxster engine... they are brave.

[Jaxonalden]

Quote;

"Quite by accident, I found the site above, which lists a used Box engine with 3 yr warranty for $6400 shipping included.

What was equally interesting to me was that the same site lists an engine for a Lexus 4.0 V* at $1200."

Those costs seem comparative if you look at it from a demand point of view. Boxster engines *POP* 99% more often than a Lexus/Toyota power plant so it would only make sense to ask more for a product that moves. I've owned Toyota's (93 pick-up, T-100, Camry, Tundra, Sequoia) and a Lexus (ES300) and have never had or heard of a power plant problem, period.

I'm saving that site in my favorites.

[roadracer311]

I think salvage yards base their prices on a formula of roughly 50% of retail. It would also make sense though, that there wouldn't be much demand for used lexis motors.

[johnsimion]

Is somebody who is obviously more clever than I am who can make and sell a kit to allow a retrofit of some other engine into the Boxster if and when the existing engine fails. Don't misunderstand me, I'm quite happy with the car and the engine as is -- but I suspect my love affair will rapidly diminish if I get stuck with an engine replacement that costs twice as much as the car itself. I appreciate what Jake Raby is doing, but don't look forward to paying $18K for a new engine just to keep my car running. In that situation, if I could get a $1200 engine shoehorned in there, the cost savings would pay for a lot of labor in retrofitting it. I'm praying the IMS holds up . . .

Bruce, I'm not blaming you for this but I have been swayed to "the dark side", I used to stick up for Porsche when you would occasionally point things like this out, not anymore...

What are they on their third "limited edition" Boxster? How many chumps bought Boxster S editions only to see the company eclipse the HP in the new base models, no worries for the S owners, I'm sure the six speed will keep your value up...What? Porsche is throwing that into the new base Box too? Well hopefully you can parlay the "S" on the trunk into residual value..I'll never buy another Porsche, I love the one I have but if it poops I'm out.....

[23109VC]

i'm new to the porsche world - let me pose this question.

WHY does a boxster engine cost so MUCH????

I know that the engine is not as common as say the Honda civic engine - but it can't be any more rare than say.. a rotary RX8 motor?? and you can get a new rotary installed at the mazda dealer for probably $3000 parts AND labor. and a rotary is a fairly unique engine - and there are only so many places you can get one rebuilt....

there is NO WAY that it costs 5x as much to build a boxster motor than a rotary.

is Porsche just charging outrageous fees for the parts to make the motors, are they charging outrageous rates for the rebuild motors?

i know porsche parts cost more than honda parts - but at some point it becomes ridiculous.
$12k for a motor? how does a motor cost $12k when you can find all sorts of other engines that are equallyh powerful, ,similarly unique, similarly rare that cost far far less????

It's not like it's an F430 and there are only an extremely LOW number of them being produced PERIOD. The boxster, while not Honda Accord rare, is not exactly a "limited production" car...if you figure the M96 engine has been tweaked in various forms, but has been in the boxster and 911 over almost a DECADE - there must literally be thousands and thousand and thousands and thousands of them being made....

so back to my question - since obviously the cost of a porsche motor is horribly HIGH.. WHY is it so high? it's not because the engine is made of gold or anything like that... pistons is pistons.. parts is parts.

maybe Porsche ought to offer a "bailout" package for customers with blown motors...

[ekam]

Originally Posted by 23109VC

i'm new to the porsche world - let me pose this question.

WHY does a boxster engine cost so MUCH????

I know that the engine is not as common as say the Honda civic engine - but it can't be any more rare than say.. a rotary RX8 motor?? and you can get a new rotary installed at the mazda dealer for probably $3000 parts AND labor. and a rotary is a fairly unique engine - and there are only so many places you can get one rebuilt....

there is NO WAY that it costs 5x as much to build a boxster motor than a rotary.

is Porsche just charging outrageous fees for the parts to make the motors, are they charging outrageous rates for the rebuild motors?

i know porsche parts cost more than honda parts - but at some point it becomes ridiculous.
$12k for a motor? how does a motor cost $12k when you can find all sorts of other engines that are equallyh powerful, ,similarly unique, similarly rare that cost far far less????

It's not like it's an F430 and there are only an extremely LOW number of them being produced PERIOD. The boxster, while not Honda Accord rare, is not exactly a "limited production" car...if you figure the M96 engine has been tweaked in various forms, but has been in the boxster and 911 over almost a DECADE - there must literally be thousands and thousand and thousands and thousands of them being made....

so back to my question - since obviously the cost of a porsche motor is horribly HIGH.. WHY is it so high? it's not because the engine is made of gold or anything like that... pistons is pistons.. parts is parts.

maybe Porsche ought to offer a "bailout" package for customers with blown motors...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat-6

[fragdude]

3k vs 12k is def. a big difference, but it is important to keep in mind certain points. One being that the rotary engine is extremely simple (one of its main appeals), and the fact that it has something like 3 (?) moving parts. You can find videos on youtube of a guy rebuilding a boxster engine from scratch and it takes quite some time and there are a lot of parts and labor involved in putting one together.

Then there is the Brand name mark-up and after-all they are in this to make money. That is why a lot of people sell their cars right after the warranty is up and why they become so cheap after what would seem like a random threshold.

I just got back from a car auction buying an A6. A 2006 A6 with 43k miles vs a 2006 A6 with 53k miles has quite a large difference in going price because it does not have a warranty.

[Brucelee]

Originally Posted by EE3racing

Bruce, I'm not blaming you for this but I have been swayed to "the dark side", I used to stick up for Porsche when you would occasionally point things like this out, not anymore...

What are they on their third "limited edition" Boxster? How many chumps bought Boxster S editions only to see the company eclipse the HP in the new base models, no worries for the S owners, I'm sure the six speed will keep your value up...What? Porsche is throwing that into the new base Box too? Well hopefully you can parlay the "S" on the trunk into residual value..I'll never buy another Porsche, I love the one I have but if it poops I'm out.....

I think I speak for many of us who would TOTALY love our Boxes if the engine wasn't such a persistent threat. Imagine if you could replace an engine for say, 2 grand (ala Chevy V8).

Man, I would be so there.

[23109VC]

If somone like Raby can make a basically stock motor to put in a boxster to replace a blown motor - not an upgrade, not a custom job - just a basic "stock" motor to swap in - and do it as CHEAPLY as possible..... basically recreate the same motor that Porsche sells - not crap but not some balanced/blueprinted "perfect" engine...

how cheap would it be? it seems like prices are still near $10k for the engine..

i know for me - if my motor goes - the car is going to be junked. I'll be pissed as hell, sell it to someone as a parts/project car - maybe i'll score a few grand for it...and write it up as an expensive lesson.

would I buy another one? maybe...but to be burned that bad in terms of lost $$$ - i'd only buy another porsche with a warranty...

[ekam]

Originally Posted by Brucelee

I think I speak for many of us who would TOTALY love our Boxes if the engine wasn't such a persistent threat. Imagine if you could replace an engine for say, 2 grand (ala Chevy V8).

Man, I would be so there.

Here ya go. Dream come true.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiero
"Additionally, a multitude of different General Motors engines have been installed by enthusiasts, from the Quad-4 engine to the Chevrolet small-block V8 to the Cadillac 4.9L and Northstar V8s. The GM 3800 Supercharged is also a very popular choice. One shop in particular that pioneered and now specializes in V8 installations has even gone so far as to install the famed Z06 Corvette powerplant, the 505 horsepower LS7, into a Fiero."

[986FortyEight]

The whole panicking around engine failures is driving me nuts!
I just love my car and will deal with failure when it happens.
Reading other boards I see plenty of boxster owners replacing blown engines for low mileage 2nd hand ones for 3K. Also, in many cases the failure might not be catastrophic and allow for a rebuild.
I think that if upgrading the weak parts with the Raby solutions may be a good idea if fear is preventing you from truly enjoying your boxster.
Also, if you were to buy an upgraded engine to drop into your tub, at 12k that would still be a nice price for the fun of driving such a fun car. What else would you buy for 12 large? a Kia? Give me a break! many of us got into a porsche for cheap knowing it would have a cost at some point!

[idheaton]

Originally Posted by 986FortyEight

The whole panicking around engine failures is driving me nuts!
I just love my car and will deal with failure when it happens.
Reading other boards I see plenty of boxster owners replacing blown engines for low mileage 2nd hand ones for 3K. Also, in many cases the failure might not be catastrophic and allow for a rebuild.
I think that if upgrading the weak parts with the Raby solutions may be a good idea if fear is preventing you from truly enjoying your boxster.
Also, if you were to buy an upgraded engine to drop into your tub, at 12k that would still be a nice price for the fun of driving such a fun car. What else would you buy for 12 large? a Kia? Give me a break! many of us got into a porsche for cheap knowing it would have a cost at some point!

+1 x infinity

[NoGaBiker]

Originally Posted by Jaxonalden

Those costs seem comparative if you look at it from a demand point of view. Boxster engines *POP* 99% more often than a Lexus/Toyota power plant so it would only make sense to ask more for a product that moves.

Two Points:
1) Actually, in things like replacement parts for cars that are no longer made, fast-selling large-volume parts are always cheaper than slow-moving, low-volume parts. ie, price a top for an MGB vs. a similar top for an Alfa Giulietta

2) While cost-to-build has some component in pricing cars and car parts, it really only establishes a minimum price. For instance, if Porsche's cost plus 20 percent markup on an M96 was $4,000, then that would be the minimum they would sell it for, because otherwise they would lose money. But there is NO limit on the upper end, is there? That's called "what the market will bear." And because Porsche is not very motivated to sell replacement engines, they are not interested in that market. So they charge a bunch. So that you will buy a NEW car. Which is what they sell. Isn't it interesting that nobody can rebuild an M96 for less than Porsche will sell you a replacement for? They know that. If rebuilds are going for more than 12k, why would they sell motors for less than that, even if they could build them for $300? They might do it for "customer good will", or if they were trying to gain a foothold in the market, or some intangible like that. All valid reasons. But Porsche enjoys a position of great customer good will and retention, and they are among the most profitable companies in the world in any field, and THE most profitable in automobiles.

I'm not "justifying" any of this or saying it's right or good or whatever. But it's a fact of life. Ya gots to pay to play. Simple as that.

Matt

[986FortyEight]

Oh so true. Very good point of view on the reality of the market.
+1