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Old 03-12-2008, 06:45 AM   #1
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Vredestein Tires: Avoid at all costs

These tires were purchased along with the wheels. For one, there was an understanding at the time of purchase that Vredestein would cover any road hazard issues, which they are now not honoring (receipt never showed :angry: ). Two, i had a second tire begin cracking on the sidewall (pictures below) which they are not covering, and they are trying to pass it off due to road hazard and underinflation. Underinflation is not the issue, or the tire would be sliced (i check these tires once a week cause they seem to not hold air anyways; tire pressure is never below 38 lbs.). This is clearly a manufacturing defect, which they aren't covering! I am posting this as a warning, and it is up to you to make the ultimate decision. This is just my personal experience, with which i am very displeased. The problem is not with the company i bought the wheels from, but with Vredestein tires. I have never had this many problems with a set of tires in my life!




(I apologize for the picture quality)

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Old 03-12-2008, 07:00 AM   #2
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Oh great, just when I found they make an original 185/70 size tire for my 914.
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Old 03-12-2008, 07:39 AM   #3
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Well.. to me I wonder "who is they" in "they are not covering"? Are you dealing with Vredestien directly? Not sure where Vredestein is headquartered in the US in terms of just showing up and letting them see the problem in person.

Sadly yes, get all warraty coverage in writing

How many miles are on the tires?

Why 38PSI? That seems high for Boxster applications, no? IIRC, 29/36 is recommended pressures.

I used to use Vredesteins on my previous 914, about 20 years ago.. "street" and "snow" tires and never had a problem with them.

What made you choose them in the first place?

Just curious more than anything else. Sorry to hear the Customer Service side seems to be a bit lacking.
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Old 03-12-2008, 08:33 AM   #4
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That's unfortunate, I always heard Vredestein tires were a good brand, with a good warranty and good reputation. They're manufactured in the Netherlands, and in general, the Dutch produce good stuff. Of course, it's always possible you got one of the few which slipped through Quality Assurance unoticed.

But, playing Devil's Advocate for a minute (which you're sure not to appreciate - sorry in advance), a Tire is a consumable item on a car - they all wear out eventually.

The Tire manufacturer must impose a specific set of requirements in their warranties to keep from going broke honoring bogus claims. This is as true of Vrdestein as it would be for Michelin, Pirelli, Goodyear or Bridgestone.

The Vrdestein Warranty lists several requirements of the owner - http://www.tiresunlimited.com/ALL%20TIRES/Vredestein/vred_warranty.htm and these aren't really any different than those of other mfgrs.

Among these, they require that a sales receipt be presented along with the claim - that's reasonable as they don't owe a thing to anyone but the person who actually bought the tire.

If you don't have a receipt, that's not their fault - look up your old CC bills and contact the retailer to get a copy or other documentation denoting you as the purchaser. It may be a hassle, but it falls under your responsibility, not theirs.

They also require that the Tires be rotated every 8,000 mi. and that proof of this be presented with any claim. Again, a reasonable requirement to insure that you were properly maintaining the Tire during your ownership.

If you cannot present this, again, you cannot fault them.

Also, they require that you keep the Tires at the proper inflation. Also reasonable because if the tires are not properly inflated, they can fail in any number of ways.

Vrdestein makes their Tires for a variety of different car applications, so they must design a pressure range into the Tire. The Tire will state a Maximum safe Tire pressure (DOT requirement), but that doesn't mean you should run at those pressures, it depends on the car and most specifically it's weight.

You state you keep the Tires never below 38 lbs. Tires pressures for the Boxster are spec'd at 29PSI Fr. and 36PSI Rr. So, you have been running the Tires over inflated (esp. the fronts) - a violation of the Warranty requirements.

Over inflation, aside from causing early center tread wear, can result in excessive heat being generated in the Tire, and one of the problems this can cause is a separation of the tread cap, which is what appears to be happening to your Tires.

The reason you want to go with the car mfgr. recommendation is because this pressure is determined to meet the performance the car was designed to and also insure that the Contact Patch is even and maximized. Sure, people play with pressures to change the handling characteristics and such, but you do so on your own accord. You cannot expect the Tire Co. to shoulder responsibility for your actions, especially after the fact.

The Vredestein warranty also has a time limit - 5 yrs. from date of purchase. Again, reasonable as Tires change over their life due to use, exposure to UV, Ozone, and chemical changes in the materials. Vredestein cannot warranty their Tires past this point, because they have a high liklehood of failure due to age.

You don't state the age of the Tires, but if more than 5 yrs., you cannot fault them for failing to honor a warranty they stated up-front had a 5 yr. expiration.

I'm sorry, but the case you describe is just not Black & White. Like it or not, you may have caused the early wear. I think slamming the Tire co., and all it's products as you have may be a little over the top.

Perhaps you should get your ducks in order (purchase receipt, proof of rotation, etc.) and contact someone at Vrdestein directly - http://www.vredesteintire.com/ and work your way up the chain. A change in approach is likely to benefit you as well. Good luck!!
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Last edited by Lil bastard; 03-12-2008 at 10:53 AM.
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Old 03-12-2008, 09:19 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lil bastard

They also require that the Tires be rotated every 8,000 mi. and that proof of this be presented with any claim. Again, a reasonable requirement to insure that you were properly maintaining the Tire during your ownership.
This kind of sucks. Since our fronts and rears are different sizes, are we just limited to an 8000 mile warrantee?
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Old 03-12-2008, 09:51 AM   #6
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black_bi-turbo - how old were those tires, I've had old tires do that after they had dried out.

Lil Bastard - Much of the heat build-up in a tire comes from repetitive flexing of the sidewall, overinflation actually decreases sidewall flex and lowers tire temp rise. As you noted, it's still not good for the tire though.
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Old 03-12-2008, 10:25 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Kill
This kind of sucks. Since our fronts and rears are different sizes, are we just limited to an 8000 mile warrantee?
Yea, staggered tires can be a pain (this is the 3rd car I've owned w/ staggered tires - you'd think I'd learn ).

But, you can still rotate them.

If you have Uni-directional tires, you just swap them side-to-side.

If your tires are Directional, you can still rotate them, but it involves more hassle and expense.

You need to remove them from the wheel and reverse and remount them on the opposite side of the car.

What makes Directional tires directional is that they have special water channeling tread on the outside of the tire designed to throw water away from the car. If you don't reverse them, the water channels are now on the inside of the tire and you throw the water toward the car's centerline and under the opposite tire dramatically increasing the potential for Hydroplaning.

Unfortunately, this is not the Tire Mfgrs.' problem, it's ours - chalk another one up to the Price of Admission!
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Last edited by Lil bastard; 03-12-2008 at 10:49 AM.
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Old 03-12-2008, 11:18 AM   #8
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Sorry for the confusion, but for one, they aren't on a boxster. Also, the inflation specs are specific for the original factory tires/and wheels, which can change when moving up in wheel size. The tires were on the car for about 8 months, which is well under 5 years, and this is not a result of dryrot. I have the receipt of purchase necessary and i was right around 8000mi. on the tires. I appreciate the fact that these questions are being raised and i understand the tires are a consumable product, but this tire was not worn out. As i said, this has been my experience, ongoing since December.

Last edited by black_bi-turbo; 03-12-2008 at 11:50 AM. Reason: clarification
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Old 03-12-2008, 11:38 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by black_bi-turbo
Sorry for the confusion, but for one, they aren't on a boxster. Also, the inflation specs are specific for the original factory tires/and wheels, which changes when moving up in wheel size. The tires were on the car for about 8 months, which is well under 5 years, and this is not a result of dryrot. I have the receipt of purchase necessary and i was right around 8000mi. on the tires. I appreciate the fact that these questions are being raised and i understand the tires are a consumable product, but this tire was not worn out. As i said, this has been my experience, ongoing since December.
Tire pressure requirements don't necessarily change with tire size.

There is a date of manufacture on the tire that will tell you how old it is. They can be sitting in a warehouse for quite some time at a dealer before they get mounted.
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Old 03-12-2008, 11:59 AM   #10
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Well then, I'd say you need a different approach, or to be talking to a different person. If you could get a letter or such from a qualified mechanic, that couldn't hurt either. Try to get hold of their Customer Relations people, they are sometimes more amenable.

I once was in a similar situation as you (not tires, but another warranty dispute) and was able to get some interest (when everyone else stonewalled me) by contacting the V.P. R&D Dept. directly. The R&D guys have a vested interest in how their products perform. In my case, not only did they send me a direct refund for the defective product - $950 (totally skirting the Warranty altogether), but they sent me the newest updated version of the product FREE to 'Beta Test' 5 mos. before it was released for sale. Don't know if this would work for you, but it couldn't hurt.

I know that Michelin and Dunlop (possibly others) have an arbitration procedure set forth in their warranty, this may be an option, though possibly more hassle and possible expense.

You could also try writing to the The Royal Netherlands Embassy - Washington DC - http://www.netherlands-embassy.org/NABID.asp and present them with your documentation, that might help as they're always bringing in Trade Ambassadors to promote their country's products and services - they don't like negatives or dissatisfied customers. They may intercede in the dispute.

I'm just still confused why Vrdestein would put up such a fuss. This is really the 1st truly negative thing I've ever heard about them. Good Luck!
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Last edited by Lil bastard; 03-12-2008 at 12:15 PM.
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Old 03-12-2008, 12:05 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by racer_d
Well.. to me I wonder "who is they" in "they are not covering"? Are you dealing with Vredestien directly? Not sure where Vredestein is headquartered in the US in terms of just showing up and letting them see the problem in person.

Sadly yes, get all warraty coverage in writing

How many miles are on the tires?

Why 38PSI? That seems high for Boxster applications, no? IIRC, 29/36 is recommended pressures.

I used to use Vredesteins on my previous 914, about 20 years ago.. "street" and "snow" tires and never had a problem with them.

What made you choose them in the first place?

Just curious more than anything else. Sorry to hear the Customer Service side seems to be a bit lacking.
Bought the tires with the wheels I bought. And i run the higher pressure for a smoother ride (imo) and to protect the wheels since they are a low profile. But, according to Vredestein its not an Overinflation issue anyways, but and Underinflation.

Thanks for the advice 'lil bastard'. I will definately be pursuing other avenues. I had also heard good things about Vredestein and can't understand it myself.
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Old 03-12-2008, 03:09 PM   #12
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Sorry, but I don't see from your pictures what the problem is. Looks like a little surface sidewall imperfections. If they hold air and are round and don't have any tread problems I say run 'em. If I were the tire guy I would tell you to get a life. But that's just my opinion so feel free to ignore it.

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