SUVs let's hear it!

cayenne hands down the best suv

[racer_d]

Why are you hauling a 6K lb boat every weekend instead of leaving it docked somewhere? Would it be "cheaper" to pay a marina fee and just drive a regular car down to the boat?

What about passengers? How are they getting there? In the tow vehicle? 4-5 people can be another 1,000lbs to take into consideration in addition to the 6000lb "trailer" rig.

Touregg Diesels are hard to come by. Taken off the market last year do to lack of low sulfer diesel. Plus, they run about $60K new. Then again, 550 or so FT-LB of torque can pull a heck of a lot.

To me, "can" you make a T-Egg or Cayenne work? yes. It might be on the more marginal side of things though.

What is the "dock" like where the boat goes in. I'd be concerned about the short wheelbase of the T-EGG/Cayanne and the front wheels getting air trying to pull 6-7K lbs (wet) on a lippery boat ramp, with water lapping up on your $2k muffler and do it every weekend? Or even every other weekend?

Get the right tool for the job.. You want to pull a boat, YOU get to drive it.. F350 Dually, Diesel if you want Load up the trailer bed with a jet ski, wet gear, etc as well.


In another unpopular vote, SUV's and kids are hard too.. Climbing up on step rails, in the wet, to reach a middle infant seat is miserable. even more so if the rear door openings are narrow. Then, as the kids get older, worrying about them opening the door into other cars (whether your Porsche in the garage, or a ******************** box at the mall). I never wanted a minivan, but a minivan is the perfect tool for the job. Simple to maintain. easy to drive. Get some power sliders and hatch and it makes life SOO much easier. Leaving room for a sliding door is a lot easier than for a full size "conventional" door. .. Besides, "one on the way" usually means even more to come

Good luck with the decisions.. Who knows, once the kid is "out" maybe the boat will be gone.

Max, what about an Explorer with the V8? Can't it handle the weight?

How about the Tahoe with the hybrid engine?

[Burg Boxster]

Explorer w/ a V8 absolutely cannot handle that much weight.

Sure the hitch can.......... it's just the minor things like tranny, brakes, suspension and torque converter that cannot but who needs those anyways

I used to drive a '04 V8 Explorer - in fact it was the 5th Explorer in a row I'd had so I really used to like them. They were very predictable........ buy 'em cheap, put 75K on 'em and then dump 'em quick before you have to drop in a new tranny. I digress, sorry....

In all reality (w/ a full tank of gas and 0 passengers) it's truly only rated to haul like 1800#s w/ the factory class III/IV hitch. Trust me, when you have 1800#s attached to an Explorer, you know it too. I got t-boned by a horsefly one day when pulling my enclosed trailer..... damn thing almost put me in the ditch

Originally Posted by Burg Boxster

Explorer w/ a V8 absolutely cannot handle that much weight.

Sure the hitch can.......... it's just the minor things like tranny, brakes, suspension and torque converter that cannot but who needs those anyways

I used to drive a '04 V8 Explorer - in fact it was the 5th Explorer in a row I'd had so I really used to like them. They were very predictable........ buy 'em cheap, put 75K on 'em and then dump 'em quick before you have to drop in a new tranny. I digress, sorry....

In all reality (w/ a full tank of gas and 0 passengers) it's truly only rated to haul like 1800#s w/ the factory class III/IV hitch. Trust me, when you have 1800#s attached to an Explorer, you know it too. I got t-boned by a horsefly one day when pulling my enclosed trailer..... damn thing almost put me in the ditch

Burg, I just quickly looked at the owners manual for my 2007 Eddie Bauer with the V8 and it says 12,000 pounds gross towing weight and just over 7,100 pounds for the actual trailer weight.

This is my 3rd Explorer. All driven hard. First two both did over 70K miles. No issues other than standard maintenance (oil and fluid changes- never a brake service, all highway driving). But, my 2003 did have a rear diff go out after warranty, and Ford did give the leasing company (GE Fleet) a $1,500 refund because my company fleet manager complained.

[Burg Boxster]

bmussatti-
That's interesting...... Apparently, tow rating b/w '04 and '07 changed. Not sure how since they are basically the same (IIRC). But I do see the '07 dry is about 240# more. So maybe they beefed up the frame. Who knows? Anyhow,

'04 shows max tow capacity of 5380 #
'07 shows max tow capacity of 7120 #

However, the common mistake people make when calculating true towing capacity is those #s are bone dry, w/ nobody in the vehicle, and usually w/out the vehicle's (actual) installed options (i.e weight distributing hitch, sunroof, 3rd row seats, 3.73 axle needed to tow, etc.). Now, assume a full tank of gas (22.5 gal), some cargo (cooler, backpacks/briefcase, tool box, etc.) and 4 people (driver plus 3) in the SUV....

140#....... for 22.5 gal x 6.2#/gal
700#....... 4 People (175# ea on avg)
500#....... Misc cargo/stuff
25#......... drawbar
50#......... weight dist. hitch
1415#..... Sub Total

The 1415 # (basically the "cargo capacity") must be deducted from the max towing capacity to get the true weight for what can be towed. In this cases, it would be:

'04 - 3965# theoretically "can" be towed
'07 - 5705# theoretically "can" be towed

So back to the original proposition.... Can a V8 Explorer handle a 6000# boat/trailer (even if the 6000# is loaded w/ gas, stuff in boat, etc.). Answer is still no.

I'm not knocking the Explorer. They are very practical vehicles and I've owned one since they first came out in 1990 (1991MY, 1995, 1999, 2002, and 2004) and my daughter now drives my old '04. As I stated, they are 'predictable'. I know what they cost new and I know what I'll get on trade when I dump them in a few years after putting 75K on the clock. 1-2 set of tires, a bunch of oil changes, 2 sets of pads/rotors, and a couple air filters are all that's needed to run 'em.

That being said, I also know they are not the best tow vehicles for anything other than small toys like sea-doos, dirt bikes and snowmobiles. Aside from the theoretical weight ratings, throw in some hills/mountains (like we have in western PA) and you quickly find out the brakes are way undersized for the vehicle - especially towing something.

I don't have exact specs, but IIRC, the rotors on my '99 Boxster are the same diam. (about 12") if not bigger, and almost 2xs as thick as than those on the Explorer. Pads are almost double and braking area on the rotors is approx 50%+ more. The Boxster hits the scales at 2800#.... Explorer at 4500#. It's one thing to get something moving, but just as, if not more, important to make it stop.

[JackG]

Burg,

I don't generally disagree with most of your post, but a couple of points...

Your "cargo" weight calculation is pretty excessive. 500lbs of cargo/misc? 1/4 of a ton in ice chests and picnic baskets? Maybe 200lbs, and if only two people that adds back 650lbs to the tow rating, which puts you back in the OK range to tow that boat. Also, remember that the tow rating manufacturers give is conservative. You vehicle doesn't magically blow up if you exceed the rating by 100lbs.

Also, the size of the brakes on the Boxster isn't so it can stop once, but rather so it can haul the car down under severe braking (racing) repeatedly without fading. Got to dissipate that heat, you know.

The Explorer is not being asked to do that, so it can do just fine without having massive brakes. It's brakes can survive a couple of panic stops without fading, and if you're towing, why would you be putting yourself in situations where you're repeatedly pounding the brakes? If your towing 6000lbs, you sure better be planning ahead, leaving stopping room, etc.

Besides, a 3 ton boat and trailer better have it's own set of brakes. If you're towing that without trailer brakes, you're taking a huge chance and probably breaking the law.

Finally, the trannies will last 150k or more. Heat kills transmissions. An external tranny cooler and fluid flushes every 20k or so does the trick.

Oh, and my last Explorer went 64k miles on it's original set of pads. A new set of pads and it was good to go on the original rotors. I've heard other Explorer drivers say that they go through brakes just like you describe... what are you guys doing to your brakes?

In the end, an Explorer's towing downfall isn't it's capacity, but rather the short wheelbase. That's why you can "feel" even lighter trailers back there, and that plagues all short wheelbase tow vehicles. If you're towing relatively short distances on flat land, that Explorer and trailer brakes will do 3 tons just fine. Long distances or mountainous terrain, I'd want an F250/350 sized vehicle.

[Burg Boxster]

JackG-
Not trying to start a debate about all the exact #s.....

Instead, I'm simply trying, for safety sake, to show how a lot of people who want to haul things get into trouble. The crux of the problem is not understanding where the #s come from and the capacity of the vehicles they are using. You'd be surprised at the # of people who just look a the hitch and say, "hey I've got a 6500# rated hitch so I must be able to pull that much".

Agree, 500# in misc sounds high but most often, mfgs (especially domestic) use the stripped down weight of the vehicle to calculate max towing capacity. So, when you add in third row seat, rear a/c, sunroof, dvd players, 3.73 axle, weight distr hitch, plus your true cargo (cooler, bags, picnic chairs, etc.) it can easily hit the 500# I sighted.

But, yes the wheel base is an inhibiting factor too.

As for brakes, I usually get about 40-45K out of a set of pads/rotors here (since they beefed 'em up from 1st gen Explorer). My terrain in western PA and WV where I do a lot of driving is substantially different than in SC. Not to mention climate and all the rock salt used in the winter pays a much heavier toll on my components vs yours. So it's really not anything different I'm doing than you, more environmental.

Again, I'm not bashing the Explorer as I currently still own the '04 and have had 4 previous ones.

[mts]

I have a 2004 Cayenne and used it to tow a track car and open car trailer (5,000lbs total load) and it worked brilliantly with the tiptronic. I honestly didn't think the V6 would have enough grunt and I was only going to use it as a stop-gap until I got a diesel truck, but the ability to tip down a gear on hills made it work really well as a tow vehicle. The V8 would likely handle your open boat trailer and 6,500lbs with no issues at all, especially with no hills. When I go to Road Atlanta and VIR I have to go through the mountains and that's a bit more of a challenge, but it handles it just fine.

I still have the Cayenne, but retired in from tow duty. I now pull an open 2 car trailer to events and use an F250 turbo diesel for the task (about 10,000 lbs tow weight), but if I do tow a single open trailer and don't have too much junk I prefer to use the Cayenne......such a nice ride.

One thing people neglect to consider sometimes is what you are towing. A 6,500 open boat trailer is a heck of a lot less taxing to tow than say a 5,000lb enclosed car trailer for example. It's the wind resistance. For example, my F250 has to work harder towing a big square single enclosed car trailer (about 6,000lbs) than my 10,000lb open 2 car trailer. The point being the V8 Cayenne will handle your boat on flat land no problem.

Good luck,
Mike

[Cloudsurfer]

I would go for the V10 Diesel VW. Having spent a lot of time towing boats and big car trailers, I would only want a diesel- both for the torque and the fuel economy (especially now). In an ideal world we'd all have Diesel Duallys in our garages for the times we need to tow things, but unless you have a good chunk of extra cash laying around (or want to drive a dually for a daily) its just not practical. When you break it all down, I think for a daily that has decent towing capability and is fuel efficient, I think you can't beat the VW.

One thing to keep in mind, however, if you wind up doing a lot of towing with any of these: they are not real trucks. Yes they'll tow the weight (some more happily than others), but the added wear and tear is wear and tear to very expensive components. Its not bad when you have to finally do brakes on your F-350, its quite another on an X5. Same goes for diff service, gearbox service and possible failure, etc.

Just my $.02.

Patrick