Simpson Racing vs Bell

[SC986]

I have been looking for a helmet I'll need for the DE. Everyone I talked to that has gone to the track suggest I try one on and not order it online. The problem is, no one within hours carries Bell.

There is a Simspson Racing at Lowes Motor Speedway which is about 30 minutes from me. Anyone have experience with them? Don't want to make a mistake with brand or fittment.

Thanks!

[racer_d]

Simpson make fine safety products. Of note, Bill Simpson, company founder, was pushed out of his own company. He markets a new line of safety gear, but the name of the new product escapes me... G-Force maybe??

Anyway, sage advice when spending $300 or so dollars. You want to be as comfortable as possible. What seems a "little snug" standing or sitting in a showroom will likely become "unbearable" when you sit in it for 20-30 minutes at a time as you will during your DE Events. If you wear glasses, bring them with you, to make sure the eye port is large enough and to make sure you can actually get them on once the helmet is in place. You may also consider that knowadays, instructors use in-car communicators. I mention this because you may be "cramming" an earpiece inside your helmet as well.

Not sure if you are looking for an Open face or Full face helmet, but try them both on and see what makes you more comfortable. Some will argue the dangers of either in an airbag equipped car, but its your knoggin when all is said and done.

[easyc]

SImpson now owns impact racing or something like that out of indianapolis

[thenavarro]

SC986,

Here's my Simpson:



Good quality, feels nice on your head. Definitely get fitted in person though and don't just take your measurements and order. I would have ordered the wrong size if I went by the measurements. Also, if you get fitted in person you can try various models and see what feels best for you. Get the SA2005 models. Take care,

Mike

[J-RAD]

They all have to pass the same standard for SNELL rating. Given that, any helmet with a SNELL rating will be "safe". After that, it comes down to things like how well it fits, styling, and features. Should you find a Simpson that fits well and you like the price, then go ahead and buy it.

You may be able to save some money (aside: saving money always sounds kind of bad when talking about important safety items, like helmets) and/or get more features by purchasing a closeout helmet. Just make sure it still meets the minimum SNELL rating for your region. The minimum in my region is SNELL 2000+, however, yours may be different. I'd be surprised to find a new helmet with a rating of SNELL 2005 or older but it's possible, so you just need to double check.

[noone986s]

I use a Simpson Voyager at the moment and it is fine. It is quite a large helmet even in the correct size but I have no problems using it with the roof up or down. This is in the UK and I was advised that in the US I would not be able to use it as it is above the roll bar and I would need to use an extension to the roll bar like the BK one.

Something else to check into, or just keep the roof up, or your hardtop on. I love being on the track with the roof down

I really like the look of your car in your avatar picture, my hardtop is being painted now.

Cheers

[MNBoxster]

Hi,

All three brands are very good, but there are differences between even the Model line-up within a single brand.

Fit is important, it must pass the Roll-Off test - should be snug enough not to be able to be rolled off your head.

Comfort is important too as is weight, ventilation, and field of vision. And, you have to be sure that with Helmet ON and Seat adjusted, that you can pass the Broomstick Test for some venues. That is, 2" between the top of your Helmet and a straightedge (broomstick) resting between the Roll Bar and the Windshield Header - not required for all venues - check the Tech rules of whateer venue (DE, SCCA Solo, etc.) you intend to participate in.

I use the Bell M3 and it's an excellent Helmet, but most important, it fits my type of head. I believe it's range is fairly broad.

One suggestion, get together with your buddies and acquaintances who use a Helmet and try theirs to see what you like. Also, consider that the Helmet will loosen up considerably with repeated use, so plan accordingly - it will get more comfortable with time.

A Helmet Sock (or Balaclava) is a good idea to keep the Helmet Fresh. A removable and Washable liner is also a nice feature. Hope this helps...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

[mts]

Both Bell and Simpson make fine safety equipment so you can't go wrong with either. Imapact Racing (Bill Simpson's new company), Pyrotect (an off-shoot of Bell), Arai, OMP, Sparco and G-Force are also good brands to consider.

As others have mentioned, fitament is the most important thing. If you can try some friends helmets, or find a local shop to test fitament before you buy, that's probably the best option. If you don't have that option you might look here:
http://www.saferacer.com/autrachel.html

I've dealth with that company several times and they are good to work with. They have nice fitting charts so you can always pick one you like, order it and and return it if the fitament is off. I have no affiliation with that company, yada..yada...

Also, as far as ratings, the most important thing is to make sure you get an "SA" rated helmet, not an "M" rated one. Some DE's and most autocrosses will let you run with an "M" helmet, PCA events require the "SA" designation. The "SA" helmets are more expensive, but specifically designed for an automotive application.

Good luck.

[drburton]

I understand that the Bell and Simpson are very comparable in terms of safety and overall quality. I tried on both helmets back to back, and I preferred the Simpson. It fit my head a bit better and I felt the face was more open (the area between the face guard and the top of the helmet).

From what I was told the G-Force helmets are not as good of quality and you may want to steer away from them even though they are cheaper.

It would be nice if you could find someone local who carried both types so you could make a direct comparison, but if the Simpson fits well I say go for it.

[MNBoxster]

Hi,

As mentioned, for Auto and Track purposes, be sure to get an SA rated Helmet and be sure it's SA05 rated. The Snell Foundation reviews and upgrades their Testing Protocol every 5 yrs. and some venues require the most current rating. This way, your Helmet will be accepted for the next 2.5 yrs until the SA10 ratings come out. Some venues allow both the current and the last SA ratings to be used. So, you could use an SA05 or SA00 rated Helmet. But, in 2010 the SA00 Rating will no longer be acceptable. So be sure to check the venues you expect to be paticipating in.

The Snell Foundation grants these ratings after randomly buying Helmets on the retail market and testing them in their own labs. If they find a Helmet which fails, the Mfgr is required to make corrective changes to design, materials or manufacturing techniques to maintain their SA rating. DOT, ANSI and ASTM rated Helmets are not independently tested. The Mfgr merely certifies that the Helmet conforms to the DOT requirements. While they may do actual testing, they are not required by the DOT to do on-going, continuous, testing.

An 'M' rated Helmet is for Motorcycle use. An SA rated Helmet is for Motorsports.

The primary differences are:

• SA standard requires flammability test while the M standard does not;
  SA standard allows narrower visual field than M standard (Most SA helmets may not be street legal);
  SA standard has rollbar impact test while M standard does not.

In addition, an 'M' rated Helmet is tested for a single impact. They are generally less robust and easily compromised. If an 'M' rated Helmet is dropped or otherwise severly impacted, it is considered compromised and should be replaced. An SA rated Helmet is subjected to multiple impacts because that's the type of environment it is expected to perform in. Hope this helps...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

[efahl]

Originally Posted by MNBoxster

In addition, an 'M' rated Helmet is tested for a single impact. They are generally less robust and easily compromised.

Jim,

My reading of the specs years ago lead me to believe that the "M" spec helmets weren't "less robust," but suited for different types of impact. The "SA" stuff is meant to take more focused whacks, such as you mention (hitting a rollbar), versus the test protocol for "M" which I believe uses flat plate impacts, to simulate bouncing your head on the pavement. The non-SCCA-approved DOT helmet spec uses yet another impact protocol which, contrary to popular belief, is not less good than the Snell tests, but again emphasizes a different injury mechanism and makes it more suitable for road bikers.

I may be recalling this all wrong, of course, since I haven't read up on it since the early '90s, but that's my impression.

Eric

[Adam]

A few months back I checked into getting a helmet. I only live about an hour and a half away from the Bell plant/office and was in the Rantoul area the other day. I was surprised out how difficult and hesistant they were to sell me a helmet. They said I had to make an appointment to buy a helmet? Anywho, I ended up ordering the helmet from saferacer and it didn't fit very well. I tried a smaller size and that one was too tight. So I ended up going to a local motorcycle shop and they had a snell/dot approved helmet for less than half the price of the automotive helmet! It was the same full face style as the auto helmet, but also had a full face shield that is removable. It looks a lot like that black simpson model listed below. It fit very well and looked good so I went with that one. I think it was $140. Why does Bell and other companies jack the prices up of their auto helmets? I used it at the last two autocrosses and it worked great.

[SC986]

Thanks for all the info guys! There is a Simpson Racing Store up by the racetrack so I can try them on. Bell I would have to order without trying on. The closest vendor to me is about 2 1/2 hours.

My DE is the PCA Carolinas Chapter. Boxsterts must pass the broomstick test, soft top must be up, hard tops are ok. Not sure if it's the chapter or track requirement but helmets must be SA05.

Due to the hours I can't make it after work, this Saturday is opening day for college football, so looks like Saturday the 8th I'll go up to Simpson.

Thanks again for all the info!!

[mts]

Originally Posted by Adam

It fit very well and looked good so I went with that one. I think it was $140. Why does Bell and other companies jack the prices up of their auto helmets? I used it at the last two autocrosses and it worked great.

You most likely got an "M" rated helmet. You can't run any PCA track events with that helmet that I am aware of. I don't know of any manufacturer that sells an "SA" rated helment for $140.

[racer_d]

Originally Posted by mts

You most likely got an "M" rated helmet. You can't run any PCA track events with that helmet that I am aware of. I don't know of any manufacturer that sells an "SA" rated helment for $140.

to quote (or paraphrase)an old Bell Helments ad:

"Got a $10 head? get a $10 helmet"



Afterall, its only your head and your safety. I would also argue that risks of head injuries are higher at a track than at a "low speed" autocross.

While I haven't fully embraced my own issues on safety, it is amazing how much someone will put into "modding" their car to make it faster/better/quicker but then won't put similar money into protecting themself in case of an accident. Guess self preservation and the ability to dis-associate your mind that "you" could actually get hurt are both pretty strong.

[J-RAD]

Originally Posted by mts

You most likely got an "M" rated helmet. You can't run any PCA track events with that helmet that I am aware of.

Yes, you most certainly can. Perhaps your region doesn't allow but I know mine does as does another region in which I occasionally attend events.

I absolutely buy into the "Got a $10 head? get a $10 helmet" argument but I don't see that as the case here. At the same time, I don't know that you necessarily need to spend the kind of money that Bell wants for some it's helmets either.

You'll have a tough time convincing me that a "M" helmet offers inferior protection than that of a "SA" helmet. They both offer significant protection. Have you ever seen a Superbike rider crash at 120+mph? In addition, I know people that, when given the choice, prefer the "M" helmet to the "SA" due to their wider field of vision - I'm one of those (and I have both).

Just my $.02.

[MNBoxster]

Originally Posted by J-RAD

You'll have a tough time convincing me that a "M" helmet offers inferior protection than that of a "SA" helmet. They both offer significant protection. Have you ever seen a Superbike rider crash at 120+mph? In addition, I know people that, when given the choice, prefer the "M" helmet to the "SA" due to their wider field of vision - I'm one of those (and I have both). Just my $.02.

Hi,

Well, you make a point so far as it goes. For DE and Auto-X, it's unlikely you'd need the Flammability protection an SA rated Helmet offers. And, if the venue will permit an 'M' rated Helmet, you've jumped that hurdle as well.

But, an M rated Helmet is simply less robust, period. For one thing, every M rated Helmet I've ever seen comes with the disclaimer cautioning that if the Helmet is dropped or subjected to an impact, "even though no damage may be apparent", that the Helmet should be considered compromised and replaced or at the least, returned to the manufacturer for proper inspection. I own 3 'M' rated Helmets (Bell, AGV, HJC) and they all came with this documentation. A Superbike rider may well crash at 120+mph, but I doubt the Helmet was reusable or even offered the same degree of protection that an SA rated Helmet would have.

Also, though this is argueably a subjective matter, I brought one of my 'M' rated Helmets (the AGV) to an Auto-X event which sanctioned 'M' rated helmets, along with my Bell M3. I found the wider field of vision in the 'M' helmet to be a detriment to maintaining good focus - it allowed too much nonrelevant data for my brain to sort through and my ETs suffered with each run in the AGV. In Solo or running Hot Laps on a Track, I actually prefer the more restricted view.

The SA Helmets are required by many venues for a reason, a good one. It offers superior protection - more than you may need? Only one way to prove that arguement and I hope none of us ever have to...

Happy Motoring!... Jim

[mts]

Originally Posted by J-RAD

Yes, you most certainly can. Perhaps your region doesn't allow but I know mine does as does another region in which I occasionally attend events.

I absolutely buy into the "Got a $10 head? get a $10 helmet" argument but I don't see that as the case here. At the same time, I don't know that you necessarily need to spend the kind of money that Bell wants for some it's helmets either.

You'll have a tough time convincing me that a "M" helmet offers inferior protection than that of a "SA" helmet. They both offer significant protection. Have you ever seen a Superbike rider crash at 120+mph? In addition, I know people that, when given the choice, prefer the "M" helmet to the "SA" due to their wider field of vision - I'm one of those (and I have both).

Just my $.02.

Wow! I didn't know that. I stand corrected. I've run track events with 6 different PCA regions (track events, not autocrosses) and none of them will allow anything less than an "SA" rating. I thought it was a national rule, but I must have been mistaken.

In fact, most all the entities that I know that run track events (not autocrosses) require "SA" helmets. I know of only a couple that don't and they are run pretty poorly. I've always considered PCA to be at the very top of the safety chain for track events. What region do you belong to that allows "M" helmets for track events?

[J-RAD]

Originally Posted by mts

I've always considered PCA to be at the very top of the safety chain for track events. What region do you belong to that allows "M" helmets for track events?

I agree, PCA events are very well run and safety is paramount. I belong to the Nord Stern region. Your basic point is valid though, a person will be able to participate in more events with a "SA" rated helmet.

Originally Posted by MNBoxster

But, an M rated Helmet is simply less robust, period. For one thing, every M rated Helmet I've ever seen comes with the disclaimer cautioning that if the Helmet is dropped or subjected to an impact, "even though no damage may be apparent", that the Helmet should be considered compromised and replaced or at the least, returned to the manufacturer for proper inspection. I own 3 'M' rated Helmets (Bell, AGV, HJC) and they all came with this documentation. A Superbike rider may well crash at 120+mph, but I doubt the Helmet was reusable or even offered the same degree of protection that an SA rated Helmet would have.

My SA helmet comes with the same warning and if I ever had an impact that warranted it's use, I'd have it inspected as well.

[mts]

Yep, you learn something new every day, J-RAD, you are certainly correct and I am mistaken. From the Nord Stern region:

"All car occupants must wear a Snell approved helmet , which has the current available Snell rating or the one previous Snell rating."

In contrast, a few regions I run with:

Peachstate - "All Helmets must be Snell rated SA2000 or better".
Ohio Valley - "All helmets must meet minimum SA2000 requirements."
Kentucky Region - "All helmets must be SA2000 or SA2005 approved."
Central Indiana Region - "Helmets - Snell Special Application rating (SA2000 or SA2005) required. Snell motorcycle helmets (M95, M00, M05) or non-Snell rated helmets will NOT be permitted. "

I'm suprised it varies like that, but it does.