driver training

[iflyadesk]

Originally Posted by Topless

An unsettled car is a slow car.

Have you ever won at a Nationals or Pro Solo Autocross?

I agree that smooth is faster than the jerkiness we all have to cleanse at the beginning. However, at the cutting edge of autocrossing--not winning the local PCA or regional event, but getting on the podium in Pro Solo or a National series--you have to really toss the car around.

Now, I will caveat this statement with the following.

(1) I have never autocrossed a Boxster that was well set up.
(2) I have never won a Nationals or Pro Solo autocross.
(3) I am terrible at autocrossing, and when I have friends who are nationally competitive ride in the car with me, they tell me that I'm just too gentle with the car.

That's ok, though. I have never enjoyed autocrossing, and there isn't a track event within 6hrs of my home that you won't find me at either racing W2W, time trialling, instructing, or just lapping. Autocross is a very enjoyable sport to a lot of people; I'm just not one of them.

[Topless]

To each his own. I enjoy both but I am better on a track. I believe John V holds a solo National title. Perhaps he can clarify.

[NickCats]

iflyadesk,

The one thing I think you are missing is the difference between wear and tear to the car and the possibility of damage between autocrossing and track driving. I love autocrossing, and since we only get about 6 - 1 minute runs a day there really is not a lot of wear and tear on the tires or brakes. I would love to try a DE someday, but the expense of tire and brake pad wear keep me away for now...

Nick

[Perfectlap]

not my words but very spot on:

"autocross makes for faster and safer track drivers"

its like driving ranges and 18 hole golf courses.. you need to spend time at both because your seat time is limited at both.

[J-RAD]

I agree with iflyadesk. Autocross and DE is an apples to anvils comparison. True, you do both in a car and there is a course to drive around but after that the similarities stop. The techniques are between the two are just different - primarily as a result of the differences in speeds and course design.

I'd love to see Topless's autocross courses that "regularly reach 80mph on the straights" - assuming we're not talking some highly modified cars here. I don't think I've ever seen one that would've required me to get out of second gear (and you're not doing 80 mph in 2). Overall speeds are significantly lower (30's).

Again, the two are just different animals. There is no reason to be intimated with either event (Autocross or DE). Personally, the idea of driving around some cones in a parking lot while in second gear does nothing for me. But that doesn't mean someone else won't like it.

Whatever the case, you guys need to be familiar with "The Pyramid of Speed".

Have fun!

[Perfectlap]

I think most Stadium sized Lot autoX events (that are well configured) go up to 70-80mph. Nothing unusual.
Personally, I wouldn't attend one that was slower. I tried that once with BMW club, small industrial parking lot, sea of tightly spaced cones...my tires were screeching the whole time. Not fun...
At the other extreme, we've had very very fast courses where 3rd gear and 90+mph was reached and imo that's not really an autocross anymore, not to mention the lap was done in 45 seconds and the whole event ended 20 minutes early. You need a balance.

[racer_d]

hmm.. most "stadium lots" (meadowlands, fed-ex field, ripken stadium) I have driven are maybe top of 2nd gear, or bottom of third gear, depending on gearing ratios). Since I've had the boxster, which is geared for 68-70mph in second, I've never needed third.

However, I have run on some "airfield" lots (Devens in Ma) and seen 3rd gear.. 70-80mph.

And i would agree that AX and DE are more compliments than alike. The advantage of AX is the ability to probe a vehicles limits in a lower speed environment. If you can learn to feel a car sliding at 30mph, then feeling it slide at 60mph at a track should be less un-nerving.

[Topless]

[QUOTE=J-RAD]
I'd love to see Topless's autocross courses that "regularly reach 80mph on the straights"

Check it out boys and girls. Qualcom Stadium in S.D. 80-90 second lap times. Two mid 3rd gear straights. Even my little 2.5L winds up pretty good here. An excellent group of instructors also. Come on out and play!
http://www.pcasdr.org/img/2006/Autocross/TrackLayout/AX20061125.pdf
http://www.pcasdr.org/img/2007/AX/TrackLayout/AXTrackCurrent.pdf

[yellowboxster01]

We have OctoberFAST and MayFAST where the local PCA rents out Hallet Motor Speedway and anyone who's a member can come out and run their car for Driver's Education. You can also pay to run the track by yourself.

Contact your local PCA, I'm sure they have an event similar in your area.

[J-RAD]

Originally Posted by Topless

Check it out boys and girls. Qualcom Stadium in S.D. 80-90 second lap times. Two mid 3rd gear straights. Even my little 2.5L winds up pretty good here. An excellent group of instructors also. Come on out and play!
http://www.pcasdr.org/img/2006/Autocross/TrackLayout/AX20061125.pdf
http://www.pcasdr.org/img/2007/AX/TrackLayout/AXTrackCurrent.pdf

Diagrams are difficult to judge, particularly when they have no scale to them. I was hoping you might have video or something. Where exactly are you hitting 80mph? The only apparent possibility that looks long enough is on the 2nd diagram between N3 and P3. Given that the turn at the end of that straight appears to be more than 90 degrees, I'm guessing it must be a wide course too. Nonetheless, I take your word for it. Certainly not the norm based on my experience.