6th gear
 

For all the non-tip S owners out there: How often do you reach 6th gear. I have had my boxster 4 months and rarely make it up there. In fact, for the most part I usually top out at 4th, which is more than sufficient for those bursts when I severely exceed the speed limit. 5th and 6th have been reserved for long, sustained interstate driving. How about the rest of you?

i have yet to get into 6th at all. although i have only had the car for a week, but i have been to @ 85-90 and been in 5th. I can't imagine 6th being important until well into the triple digits. But i sure do love knowing its there waiting. Plus, 6 speeds just looks super cool on top of the stick shift :)

just use it to cruise it on the highway...i think it's a bit too long for speeds below 100mph anyway....

There's absolutely no need for 6th gear on the S. The 6 speed is a brilliant marketing gimmick by Porsche. Most people automatically assume the more gears the better. This is only true if the gear ratios are matched for the engine/drivetrain.

Unfortunately the S has exactly the same gear ratios as the 996. Problem: the 996 has 50+ more HP, more torq, and completely different powertrain characteristics than the S. Obviously this is not a good thing for the S!


"I've read that criticism ('S' tranny) in other reviews of the S over
the years since its introduction. The criticism is based on the fact that the S 6-speed gearing is the same as the Carrera 6-speed's gearing. Considering the S' considerably less power & torque than the Carrera's, it's easy to understand why either the S' engine is too little for its transmission or its transmission is too much for its engine. Many here & elsewhere have theorized Porsche did this intentionally, both to save $$ and to keep
the S way below Carrera performance territory IAW their marketing strategy.

All sounds reasonable to me...."
-John Brown of Northern Virginia (PPBB user)

Too bad, 'cuz if Porsche took the time (and money) to rework the 6 speed and optimize it for the S it would be a much better car. Even if they used the same 5 speed as the 2.7L in the S it would be a better car as the 5 speed ratios are matched better to the S's powertrain (deltas: base - S: 35HP increase vs. S - 996: 50+ HP).

"Drove 6000 miles in 2 years [Boxster 'S'] and the gearing was horrible in my opinion....I was unhappy with the Boxster 'S'...
The Boxster 'S' should have gotten the 5 speed gearbox of the 2.7..."
-Chris from Germany (CFG)
Admin for 996 board (http://www.funcarsonline.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php)
and very respected Porsche enthusiast on Porsche message boards.


I'm looking forward to the 987S. I'm sure Porsche will fix the tranny issue. Porsche had to cut all kinds of corners with the 986/996 programme. I think we'll get a proper Boxster 'S' with the 987S.

The standard boxster could use a lower final drive as well :(

Interesting post...anyone with track experience want to add a few words? After all, that's a different arena all together...

I disagree with 'another s in s' about the 6 speed. I think the LESS power you have the more you need the extra gear - but we've had this discussion before so I won't go more into it.

just wanted to provide an alternate opinion (mine) that 6th gear is pleasant for cruising in flat places (Arizona) at 75mph or more and is nice for that exciting UPSHIFT at an indicated 150MPH. When cruising at 110-130 in mounatinous areas I tend to swap between 5th and 6th gear.

Having moved to NY last year, 6th is only for freeway cruising now :(

LOL. Nice try hijacking my thread. My point was about the appropriateness of the S having a 6 speed. It wasn't about whether the base needs a 6 speed. Frankly it doesn't. I have never ever wished for a 6th gear, even cruising on the freeway. And if it did have 6 speed that wasn't tuned for the 2.7L powertrain it would be horrible, "rowing through the gears" as some have described the shifiting in the city in the S which has gearing tuned for the 996.

If you know anything about Boxster history you will know that the 2.7L has the most perfected transmission in the Boxster line. When Porsche increased the engine size in '00 to 2.7L they re-tuned, re-optimized, the transmission to perfectly match the 2.7L engine powertrain. In the case of the S, they just bolted on the same transmission as the 996 as a marketing gimmick.

Many S owners will say you need to learn how to shift the 6 speed. It takes some getting used to. Translation: it takes time to live with a mis-matched transmission.

"I've just concluded -- agreeing with many -- that the 6 speed transmission in the S is just not that smooth. "
-JLR
(posted by S owner JLR last week on PPBB.com)

This is "your" thread? mmmm.... I thought someone else started it. I've heard you tout the greatness of your 5-speed for a long time. In fact, it seems thats the only time you like to chime in. Why so fixated on the boxster transmission? You sound like you are trying to justify the fact that you got a regular boxster instead of a S.

Another S in S has some issues.

He keeps bringing up subjective comments like "not shifting smoothly" and somehow equating it to "not being the correct ratio for the S". But then again notice these guys will also claim that the clutch is so heavy in the S. LOL!

I've posted countless facts refuting his nonsense on PPBB. But he will continue bashing the S. If it's not the tranny then it's the S not being any quicker than the Base model.

Here's the FACTS once AGAIN:

Boxster S Ratio:
13.1408
7.568
5.2288
4.1968
3.5088
2.8896

2.7L Base Ratio:
12.46
7.5472
5.0908
3.8804
2.9904

1st gear: S is shorter. Shorter is better for a car with low torque. Gee, if anything the base is geared too high.
Advantage: S

2nd gear: S and Base are same. Again, with the Base having significantly less torque, the gearing is better in the S.
Advantage: S

3rd gear: S is slightly shorter. Again, with the Base having lower torque it should be the one with the shorter gear.
Advantage: S (see a theme here?)

4th gear: OMG. A HUGE difference. The S' 4th gear is significantly shorter than the Base model's 4th gear. Matter of fact, the S' 5th gear is almost equivalent to the Base's 4th. With the Base already lacking in torque, I can't even begin to imagine how wrong this is.
Advantage: S (by a large margin)

5th gear: The base model has already gone into "overdrive" gearing due to its too tall 4th gear whereas the S is at 1:1 ratio.
Advantage: S

6th gear: This one's easy...Advantage S!

So using Another S in S' logic, the 6 speed is designed for the 911 which has more hp/torque. So basically he's saying that shorter gears is the way to go. Yet the Base models gears are taller than the S with the Base having less torque. That's solid ground you're standing on. :D

Way to OWN yourself. Care to refute these numbers? I didn't think so.

ps. You have to be the thread starter to actually claim someone hijacking your thread. :rolleyes:

Yeah, i dont know why someone who doesn't own an S can really know about the 'non-smooth shifting' or the gearing is not right -- both comments are subjective, and would usually be better given by someone who has actually driven an S day in and day out.

I went 130 today in the desert -- and i will tell you i shifted into 6th @ 120, and it just kept pulling. im glad it was there. :D

This might be wrong, but I think last time someone called him out for having marginal logic(at best) he said that he used to own an S. He then said he sold it because he hated it and he just "loved" the 2.7L boxster and it's oh so great 5 speed. Sure. lol

If anything, it sounds like the 2.7L needs the 6 speeds more to make up for the lack of power and torque. Like Lux said, a car with limited power and torque and a peaky engine needs closely spaced gear ratios and shorter gearing to extract the most out of the engine's output. This is sound logic to me.

Before I bought my '01 base Boxster, I drove a 6-speed Acura RSX and before that a 5-speed Acura Integra GS-R. I don't want to ruffle any feathers, but quite honestly the transmissions in those cars blow away my Boxster's 5-speed. The throws in the GS-R's 5-speed are shorter, slicker, and easier (and quicker too) than the Boxster's 5-speed, and the GS-R is geared quite short. By contrast the boxster's throws are longer and a bit ropy, and the clutch has way more travel. Often I found myself wishing for a 6th gear in the Integra - 75 MPH would spin 5th gear at about 3600 RPM. We got one in the RSX, and that was probably the nicest combination of transmission and gearing of any car I've ever driven.

My Boxster pulls 73mph at redline in 2nd gear. That's absurd. The lower gears should be much shorter, and that would allow for much better acceleration. I'd gladly trade 500 RPMs higer cruising speed on the highway for better low end acceleration where I need it for street driving.

As to the question of 6 versus 5 speeds? A 6 speed will always let you lower the ratios of your lower gears and result in better acceleration, while the extra gear on top means you don't sacrifice comfort on the highway.

While we're at it, does anyone know if there's a shorty final drive on the market for Boxsters? I bet you could take 3/4s of a second off a base boxster with better gearing and still not sacrifice too much in cruising speed in 5th gear.

Glad to see there's people that can use logic on this board. :cheers:

F1, I agree with your comments. But you have to remember that the Acura trannies have to handle less torque and are direct-linkage (vs cable for the Boxster due to location). Same with the S2K and Miata, both of which have awesome shifting feel. Get the B&M short shift. I will help immensely with getting rid of the the loose, ropey feel.

Also, I did a quick calculation with the Boxster's weight/torque/transmission ratio vs the 911's weight/torque/transmission ratio. For S owners, if you install the 2.7L shorter rear end ratio then you will be within 2% of the 996. If you install the 2.5L rear end ratio you will be right at the 996 numbers. Base 2.7L owners can install the 2.5L rear for a little more zip.

I'm not sure if the rear gear is swapable although I'm thinking they should be. Anybody know for sure? Paging Toolpants...

It would be interesting to see someone do it if the parts are interchangeable (especially S with Base).

I don't know if there is a gear kit for the boxsters but I do know that you can shorten the throws with the B&M short shifter kit. You can pick one up new for 200 bucks on e-bay. Most people seem to like them. Plus, install is pretty easy I hear.

Actually, the RSX Type-S 6-speed is a cable shifter, and had even tighter throws than the GS-Rs transmission. And 192 lb. ft. in the '01 Boxster in my case vs. 162 lb. ft in the S2000 isn't really that big a difference design-wise, plus the S2000 tranny has 240 hp going through it as opposed to my 217. It's a wash.

Besides we're not really disagreeing. All I really meant to do was debunk the "perfect 5-speed" argument.

Ah I was wondering when you would show up Lux. I see you have found me on another forum to defend your Precious. Yes, I have my issues. But you know what, you have stooped to my level and shown to have your own issues as well. It's funny how you stay quiet for days, weeks, and when someone posts anything negative about the 'S' you pop up with your defense. Yes, you are the "anti-Another S in S" A mirror reflection of myself.


Any way, your "facts" and your own subjective impressions of the gears don't prove anything except you lack common sense when it comes to automotive engineering. Don't you remember John Brown's common sense:

"I've read that criticism ('S' tranny) in other reviews of the S over
the years since its introduction. The criticism is based on the fact that the S 6-speed gearing is the same as the Carrera 6-speed's gearing. Considering the S' considerably less power & torque than the Carrera's, it's easy to understand why either the S' engine is too little for its transmission or its transmission is too much for its engine. Many here & elsewhere have theorized Porsche did this intentionally, both to save $$ and to keep the S way below Carrera performance territory IAW their marketing strategy.

All sounds reasonable to me. But the actual gear ratios of the S can pretty easily be compared to the Carrera specs & then we'll all know for sure. Data's probably even available on the net."
-John Brown of Northern Virginia

Go ask any Porsche mechanic what he thinks of bolting on the 996 tranny in the 'S'. And let's not forgot the great CFG's experience with the 2.7L base and his S that he had to sell in 2 years b/c he couldn't live with the gearing:

"Drove 6000 miles in 2 years [Boxster 'S'] and the gearing was horrible in my opinion....I was unhappy with the Boxster 'S'...
The Boxster 'S' should have gotten the 5 speed gearbox of the 2.7..."
-Chris from Germany (CFG)
Admin for 996 board (http://www.funcarsonline.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php)

So let's see, who to trust and believe:

1) Porsche experts like John Brown, CFG (and many others)...

or

2) Lux. S troll par-excellence.

I pick #1!


Here's the actual gear ratios data comparing the base and S's gear ratios:


Raw Normalized Gear Actual Gear Base S Base S Base S Difference
1 3.50 3.82 12.46 13.14 1 1 94.8%
2 2.12 2.20 7.55 7.57 2 2 99.7%
3 1.43 1.52 5.09 5.23 3 3 97.4%
4 1.09 1.22 3.88 4.20 4 4 92.5%
5 0.84 1.02 2.99 3.51 4 5 110.6%
6 0.84 2.89 5 5 85.2% 5 6 103.5% Final Drive Ratios: Base = 3.56 S = 3.44


You can see the difference between the base and S gear ratios. Now, the delta in HP between the base and S is 35HP. The delta between the S and 996 is over 50 HP. So while the difference in gear ratios between the base and S is small the deltas show that the base gearing fits the base better than the S gearing fitting the S. The base has better gear matching than the S. Oh yeah, nobody really uses the 6th gear in the S, so there's no advantage of the 6th gear.


P.S. there's one other Boxster board where I visit occasionally. Can you find me there? hehehe


P.P.S. I was my "subthread" that was hijacked. Go back and read my first response (subthread).

I drive an S. I use 6th all the time. The S will smoke ANY 2.7 (without either being modded). And I would garner to say that 99.9% of all non-S boxster owners would have taken an S -- all things being equal (i.e. price, mileage, condition, etc).

no matter what you believe, the S can outrun and out perform the 2.7. So what's there to like more about the 2.7?

Another S in S,

Yes, we meet again. :matchup:

Even though you do these long-winded post with extravagant quotes there are never any facts. Common sense means nothing when it is applied with false assumptions. What I try to show you is simple physics. You do know what physics is, right?

What you don't seem to want to understand is that the difference between the Base and S isn't the 6th gear. Re-read that last sentence ten more times. Now go look at your own ratios that you posted.

S' 6th gear = Base's 5th gear.
S' 5th gear = Base's 4th gear.

The problem with the Base is the big gap between 3rd gear and 4th gear. Especially with the Base lacking the S' torque.

You see, the paragraph above is NOT subjective. The physics prove it out. There IS NO DEBATE.

There are no facts in your idols John Brown and CFG's comments that support the Base is better geared than the S.

Riddle me this:
Tell me why a Base car with significantly less torque is better off having taller gears than a car with more torque and shorter gears? Is it so that you can go slower? Bwahaha.

Go back and look at my numbers and look at the percentage differences between the S and base gearing and compare the deltas in difference in HP between the base, S, and 996. . The problem with your data is you're not looking at the percentage difference, only raw numbers. Then read what John Brown said. That's why the base is better off than the S. I wish I had CFG's discussion on the matter because he had more data. I only quoted his summary, but he did have some interesting data. I trust him and his data. It makes sense. None of your arguments have many any sense whatsoever and I want you stop repeating your arguments and not post any more irrational arguments unless it's something I haven't heard.

I answered your question, now answer me this, why did JLR say this:

"I've just concluded -- agreeing with many -- that the 6 speed transmission in the S is just not that smooth. "
-JLR

I'm sure you read it last week on ppbb.com. I have quotes from at least 20 S owners and previous S owners all bemoaning the 6 speed. Those are just the ones I bothered to copy. I've come across many more negative statements about the S 996 tranny from the various boards I visit. Why have so many people complained about the 6 speed? You can start by asking Meredith on ppbb.com why she prefers the 5 speed over the 6 speed.

hehehe

Sorry, it depends more on the driver than the car. The performance between the base and S is too close to call. Go to your local bookstore, pick up a copy of Road & Track magazine and look at their road test summary. The difference in 0 - 60 between the base and S is just .3 seconds. It's a toss up.

A driver with track experience and practice in launch starting will beat you in a base 0 - 60 than you in your S, (unless you too have launch starting/track experience). An expert driver in a Honda Accord EX V6 will beat the average S driver 0 - 60.

Again, why so fixated on the 5 spd? I hope you relish in the oh so nice feel of your 5-spd when a box s puts BUS-LENGTHS on your car at the roadcourse and the dragstrip. The box does mid 14's and the box s does high 13's. This is huge. The difference between a 13.8 sec run and 14.4 sec run is a couple big yellow mayflowers. Road and track seem to steer vehicles just fine but something happens when they try to get the car down the strip. They are consistently the slowest out of all major car magazines. They need to take driving lessons from M/T or C&D.

Again, I repeat, the performance between the base and S is a toss up. An expert driver with DE experience in a base can beat you in your S on a track, 0 - 60, 1/4 mile, whatever, you name it. It takes more skill than you think to do launch starts and 1/4 mile runs.

On the other hand, you in say a 997S can beat that expert driver in his base. The performance advantage of the 997S over the base Boxster is clear. The performance advantage of the Boxster S over the base Boxster is not so clear. It depends more on the driver in this case.

P.S. you've grown up Adam since you were kicked out of ppbb.com. That's one thing we have in common- we were both kicked out of ppbb.com. Who knows, maybe they will take you back.

Again, you're wrong. The 996 has nothing to do with your claim that the Base is better geared than the S. I've never paid much attention to the Base before this but I've now realized that the Base is geared much too high compared to the S.

How's this for facts...the Base would be quicker and more driveable with the 6 speed. Sorry, but that's the facts.



Here we go again. The old "I wish I had all this data but I've somehow lost it and can't back up anything that I've said" line.

BTW, John Brown's comment makes no sense. "The S has the 996 tranny so the Base must be better." Apparently he doesn't understand gearing and is making assumptions. Like you do.



Haha. Good one. I can't stop laughing!



No you didn't....as usual.



How the heck do I know? Maybe he'll say that the Boxster rides rough too. What's this have anything to do with the "Base having better gearing?" Is JLR one of your many aliases?



Even if you can find me 100 owners that don't like the 6 speed it is a drop in the bucket out of all the S owners. Even Charles Manson found enough whackos to follow him.



What do I care what Meredith prefers? Should I ask automatic owners what they prefer also? Give me facts that can be backed up with physics and mathematics.

Now you know comparing automatic tranny with manual is comparing apples and oranges. Let's stick to the base 5 speed vs. S 6 speed, OK?

If you think the base would drive better if it had the 6 speed, how do you explain this comment from Excellence magazine from a few years ago comparing the 2.7L vs. S:

"And with the base car's slightly longer gear spacing, you're less likely to shift up to third while driving from light to light - which makes it a bit easier to drive around town. So in an urban environment, the base car may be a better pick than the Boxster S, ..."

I'm seeing a pattern here, authorative unbiased sources like Excellence magazine, Porsche experts like CFG, they're all wrong. The Lux is right. :rolleyes:

Um....I think the Lux is wrong. I'll believe the experts and unbiased authorative sources.

P.S. Excellence magazine also said in the same article the base was a better buy than the S. Sorry you wasted money on the S. :D

Yes, I understand Mario Andretti could smoke me in my S with a skateboard. BUT, again, apples to apples -- who would win with 2 totally equally skilled (highly skilled) drivers and 2 totally stock, same year (lets take 2000, since that is the year of my car) boxster's and boxster S's?

You want fair compaisons, then compare fair. same driver. same conditions. who wins?

Didn't I already mention that the overall 2nd gear ratio between the S and Base are the same? I think I did. 7.56 vs 7.54. So why would Excellence make that comment about the S needing to upshift while the Base doesn't? Please explain this one to me. :rolleyes:

Guess your one magazine that loves the Base over the S was just proven WRONG. Bwahahaha.

Long live the S!

This argument is ridiculous. Arguing that Michael Schumacher in a base could beat me in an S proves nothing. What proves something is that if I take an S and a base to a drag strip and a road course I'm goin to set a lower ET and faster lap time in the S than in the base. This isn't hard to understand. A half second in the 1/4 mile is an eternity.

Your argument is like saying since a 3 liter turbodiesel gets better mileage than a 1.8 liter gasoline four cylinder that all larger engines are more fuel efficient than all smaller engines. It's just not a valid logical argument.

If you like the 5-speed better than the 6-speed, fine. Wo are we to argue that. But your personal opinion isn't scientific fact so please stop arguing as if it was.

re "I have quotes from at least 20 S owners and previous S owners all bemoaning the 6 speed. "

Can you check those quotes and see if one of them is from me?

Excellence made that comment because of the deltas in the HP, between the base, S, and 996. I keep telling you, the S 996 tranny is for the 996 drivetrain, which has way more power than your underpowered S (yes I admit the base is underpowered too but that's a separate issue). It's funny how you either focus on the HP and neglect the gear ratios or focus on the gear ratios and completely leave out the HP differences. IF you put 2 and 2 together maybe you'll get it. I doubt it.

Any way, my purpose isn't try to convert you since you are obviously brainwashed and will not see the light. You're like someone who belongs to a cult and no amount of expert testimony and professionals trying to reason with you is going to hepl you.

All I can say is I got all my information from authoritative Porsche sources and experts. That's how I formed my opinion, along with driving both the S and base. I've backed up all my claims with expert sources and the opinions of the layman S owner (see quotes below). You on the other hand are a one man monkey, spouting ridiculous claims in the wind. Who do you have backing up your claims? It's just you and your illogical, useless gibberish numbers.

Didya know that noone has agreed with your logic and data so far? Gee... I wonder why. Because it doesn't make any sense. It's just you and your delusional thoughts vs. the world.

Some people who agree with ME. These people can all be contacted on ppbb.com for verification. Now, knowing your paranoid personality, you'll probably go out there and create fake users to start bashing the 5 speed and start collecting quotes yourself. Sorry, I know your game so don't even try it.


"Drove 6000 miles in 2 years [Boxster 'S'] and the gearing was horrible in my opinion....I was unhappy with the Boxster 'S'...
The Boxster 'S' should have gotten the 5 speed gearbox of the 2.7..."
-Chris from Germany (CFG)
Admin for 996 board (http://www.funcarsonline.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php)


"I've read that criticism ('S' tranny) in other reviews of the S over
the years since its introduction. The criticism is based on the fact that the S 6-speed gearing is the same as the Carrera 6-speed's gearing. Considering the S' considerably less power & torque than the Carrera's, it's easy to understand why either the S' engine is too little for its transmission or its transmission is too much for its engine. Many here & elsewhere have theorized Porsche did this intentionally, both to save $$ and to keep
the S way below Carrera performance territory IAW their marketing strategy.

All sounds reasonable to me. But the actual gear ratios of the S can pretty easily be compared to the Carrera specs & then we'll all know for sure. Data's probably even available on the net."
-John Brown of Northern Virginia

"I've just concluded -- agreeing with many -- that the 6 speed transmission in the S is just not that smooth. "
-JLR


"I prefer the 5 speed over the 6 speed"
-Meredith
An admin on PPBB

"Have to make a comment about the 2.7L, after owning one for 2 years and an S for 8 months I have to say I wouldn't mine going back to the 2.7. Driving in the city you couldn't tell the difference, as a matter of fact the 2.7 feels better in the city than the S."
-Shaeetoon(DFW)

"I've own/owned 3 Porsches (01 996, 02 996 and 01 Boxster S). Strangely, the shifter in my Boxster S is one of its weak points. It feels sloppy, plastic, and it's hard to get into 3rd gear. The dealer service tech tested my car and told me it is typical, and within
normal. "
-Ray Gram

"The gearbox on the S seems mushy, as well as the clutch. The base seemed a lot more precise. "
-robb in socal

"I still maintain that the 5-spd feels better than the 6-spd. "
-Brian Harrington, 'S' owner

"When I drove the 5-speed it seemed to shifter easier (less balking) than the 6-speed
in the "S"."
-John S

"that was my experience as well."
-al greenborg

"On a test drive of the S 6-speed vs 2.7 5-speed , I loved the S power, could not tell the difference in brakes but much prefered the 5-speed. It seemed to match the engine better."
-Iwas There (Toronto)

"but its gear ratios are not particularly well suited to the S' 3.2 liter engine. "
-John Brown of Northern Virginia

Andrew P's observations ('S' owner)
1) Torque delivery in 3rd is lackluster. This isn't a complaint, but I'm used to cars pulling a lot harder in 3rd. There's plenty of pull in 2nd, but 3rd seems a little anemic. Having said that, I am faithfully following the break-in guidelines and not taking the
engine past 4200... I have a feeling that the 3rd gear "fun" doesn't start until the 5000
range...

2) The shifter is a little sloppy. I find the throws to be a tad long, but not too long. It's not spongy (is that a word) like my BMW... it's just... ahh... the best way to describe it is that the spring that brings the shifer in between the 3rd and 4th gates while in neutral isn't strong enough. I've missed a number of shifts (fortunately I've cuaght myself).... It seems that I've been conditioned to work with that spring-load and
I'm just not getting that feedback.

3) The synchros don't always seem to work. I've never "ground" anything, but sometimes I just can't get it to go into gear (on upshifts). A little bit of double-clutching solves the problem. I'm not sure what's going on here... hopefully I was just having a bad day...

No no no that's not what I said that's what the Lux (pro-S troll) said. What I said was an expert driver with practice on launch starts ,with far less driving experience than Schumacher, can beat your average S driver. On the other hand that same expert driver in his base couldn't beat the average 997S or 996 GT3 driver.

The point is, the performance difference between the base and S is negligible and depends more on the driver than the car. On the other hand the performance difference between the base/S and a 997S or GT3 is significant and any weakness in the driver can be made up by the clear and prodigous performance advantage of the 997S or GT3.

There's no such clear advantage of the S over the base. It's a toss up. It depends on the driver. There's no such dependence on the driver with the base/S vs. 997S/GT3 example. Any joe schmoe in a 997S or GT3 can beat the best driver in the world in a base/S 0 - 60.

Nice try. Nowhere in that sentence by Excellence did they mention the 996. They said the Base with taller gearing than the S can eliminate the shift to 3rd between lights. So I proved them (and you) wrong. It's so easy it's getting boring.

BTW, I see you avoided my questions again with even more subjective quotes than ever. It's kinda like being carpet bombed with idiocy. LOL!

This has been entertaining but I'm done OWNING you. Oh, and BTW, everybody that has been ripping on you in this thread...? It means that they don't agree with you. :p

:D :D :D :D :D

Can you check and see if I'm in there too?

:)

I see you remember me as well. How long did you have to kiss Skylers ass before he let you back in the ppbb club?:p I admit I probabbly did deserve to get kicked out because I did purposely act like a troll and I didn't take anything seriously. However, I don't really miss PPBB. It is a frickin dictatorship over there run by overzealous moderators on a HUGE power trip(coughskylercough). They play favorites like nobody's buisness over there. I should have a different IP address soon so I might just sneek in there and see what I have been missing *rolls eyes*.:)

I answered all your questions ad nauseum, granted you have to put 2 and 2 together sometimes which you obviously can't do. That's why you don't understand what Excellence is saying. You simply can't put 2 and 2 together. You're hopeless. :rolleyes:

Might I suggest...that this thread simply die?

What's really the point of it all? I love my porsche. You love YOUR porsche. Instead of getting everyone all pissed at you, why don't you just get over yourself? This is supposed to be a site where information is shared and we all enjoy the fact that Porsches are the best damn cars on the road...not to beat tired subjects into the ground.

Holy CRAP

This thread is turning more personal than a logical discussion.

So what you said is than an expert driver in a base can beat a non-expert driver in an S. Agin, it proves nothing except that the advantage of the s isn't enough to outweigh the driver's inexperience. It doesn't "prove" that the base tranny is better than the S tranny.

I just happened to try to get on ppbb today and I actually got in. I still can't post without moderator approval LOL:cheers: , but I can read the messages. I see that boxsterbob still remembers me;) as well as Zalinsky. Anywho, I noticed that they just recently banned tool pants too. I think they are getting alittle ban happy over there.:matchup: TP seems like a nice enough guy and he knows everything boxster. He must have pissed off Skyler too! Pretty soon it's gonna be all the ppbb rejects hanging out here LOL. The thing is, this forum is more professional and informative than ppbb and it's all done without waving the ban wand. JT has a good place here. Sorry to see you giving up 986forum.com JT.

I stood up for tool pants today and got zapped.

Skyler what a piece of work..