My V1 saved my butt today

[RandallNeighbour]

The debate over whether the arrows and bogey counter are really worth the extra hundred bucks will rage on for anyone who has never used both the V1 and all the others. If you used a V1 in a LEO and Walmart infested area, you'd quickly stop all the debate.

The Beltronics or the Escort will certainly keep you out of trouble with Johnny law, and if you currently own one enjoy the protection it affords you. Just know that I've tried both and sensitivity aside, these other detectors will not tell you if the LEO has passed you or not, going the other way, and you may not know if more LEOs are on the prowl.

Moreover, these other detectors are not upgradeable and not programmable.

So, buy purchasing a V1, you get these unique features:

• Arrows which tell you where the threat is coming from which gives you the ability to look in one direction for the threat, not three or four and keep wondering where he's sitting or driving. No one really understands how wonderful this is until he or she actually use the V1.

• A bogey counter which indicates more than one threat, which also gives you the ability to keep your speed low until you're past all the threats. No one really understands how wonderful this feature is either until he or she uses the V1.

• A programmable detector. Because X band is only used in one or two states now due to it's old technology and age, I programmed my V1 to simply ignore any X band readings. This knocked out a vast majority of the false alarms coming from WarMarts and Kmarts, etc. Other detectors cannot block bands or change sensitivity thresholds like the V1.

• An upgradeable detector. Three years ago, my wife asked me to come into the breakfast room and sort through a junk drawer. In the drawer I had stored 3 radar detectors from the past 20 years of marriage. I bought them new and used, all of which were abandoned for a newer model that was more sensitive, filtered out more false readings, or had more options (Ka, Laser, a rear-facing sensor, etc.). The V1 can be programmed for a small fee for new threats and will probably be the last dash-mounted detector I need to buy. This is a huge benefit to me personally.

My conclusion and recommendation:
If you're reading this and you own a Bel or Escort and want to argue more, resist the urge and just buy a V1 and try it for a month, risk free. If you don't think the arrows, the bogey counter, the ability to turn off X band and upgrade it is worth it, return the detector and get all your money back.

I seriously doubt you'll return it though. I've never encountered a V1 owner who was not so impressed with it that he or she said they'd rather buy a different detector next time. Period.

[JackG]

Originally Posted by RandallNeighbour

The Beltronics or the Escort will certainly keep you out of trouble with Johnny law, and if you currently own one enjoy the protection it affords you. Just know that I've tried both and sensitivity aside, these other detectors will not tell you if the LEO has passed you or not, going the other way, and you may not know if more LEOs are on the prowl.

Moreover, these other detectors are not upgradeable and not programmable.
Not true. The 8500 is programmable.

So, buy purchasing a V1, you get these unique features:
Not so unique...

• Arrows
I just slow down until the threat is gone.

• A bogey counter which indicates more than one threat,
In Expert mode, the 8500 can track and display up to 8 signals at one time.

• A programmable detector. Because X band is only used in one or two states now due to it's old technology and age, I programmed my V1 to simply ignore any X band readings. Other detectors cannot block bands or change sensitivity thresholds like the V1.
Untrue. The 8500 is programmable, allowing you to turn off individual bands and change sensitivity, among other things.

• An upgradeable detector.
Looks like V1 would get it right the first time.

My conclusion and recommendation:

Buy an 8500. It doesn't have the "cool" arrows, but it is programmable, can track multiple bogeys (if that's really necessary), and has better KA sensitivity, in my own experience. My 8500 alerted me to a KA threat about 6 seconds before my friend's V1 alerted him. We were traveling side-by-side on a four-lane, and he wondered why I hit the brakes. A little while later his V1 got around to telling him why, complete with a nice arrow pointed forward!

I'll take my 8500.

Originally Posted by JackG

Buy an 8500. It doesn't have the "cool" arrows, but it is programmable, can track multiple bogeys (if that's really necessary), and has better KA sensitivity, in my own experience. My 8500 alerted me to a KA threat about 6 seconds before my friend's V1 alerted him. We were traveling side-by-side on a four-lane, and he wondered why I hit the brakes. A little while later his V1 got around to telling him why, complete with a nice arrow pointed forward!

I'll take my 8500.

The arrows are very very functional. That's what makes them "cool". I'm a form follows function kind of guy. If you had one you'd know. I can't tell you why your 8500 had the 6 sec. heads up in your experience, there could be a plethora of explanations and not limited to, e.g., different program running on V1: L, vs l vs A, or different mounting position, different car therefore different diffraction profile, the radar gun was biased to your lane, V1 is broken, baby Jimbo stuck a piece of gum on the front antenna of V1, etc... I dunno.

I do know most scientific testing disagrees with you. The V1 virtually dominates all others, i.e.

Car and Driver,

http://www.caranddriver.com/features/1993/the-great-detector-test-page3.html


And my favorite,

http://www.guysoflidar.com/radar-detector-test-fall-2006/radar-detector-test.html


It can be argued there is a bias there, but that's a stretch. (Although I do believe there are a few dummy forums out there that I ran into, especially Craig Peterson smells fishy http://valentine1.com/lab/V1Hater.asp). I say that because I have read ALL the reviews word for word, and feel he has a clear bias which is unfounded. It's ok to have a bias, it's a free world for the most part. My thing is that I prefer a bias that's well founded. Hey that's why I drive a Boxster instead of a VW bug type I.

[JackG]

boxsterz,

I've had some experience with a V1, and I just didn't find the arrows that useful. If there's an alert, I slow down. When it's gone, I resume. For me, the arrows are not a must-have, just "cool", and not worth an extra $100.

My post was merely an attempt to correct the mis-information that keeps flowing, and to relate a real-world experience I had. It's obvious that many people have become passionate about V1's. Whether it's because of a great product or great marketing doesn't matter. I think they are a good detector, but I'm not a V1 cheerleader. Others are, and that's OK.

As you point out, most of the "tests" and forums out there are biased in some way. You point out two tests that rated the V1 as better, but I'm sure you know that there have been tests that rated the 8500 as the winner as well. Also, even if one of those sensitivity tests were actually run properly so the results can really be compared evenly, that doesn't mean those lab results will translate to the real world. There are abundant examples of that.

In the end, you pay your money and you take your chances.

[QUOTE=JackG]boxsterz,

I've had some experience with a V1, and I just didn't find the arrows that useful. If there's an alert, I slow down. When it's gone, I resume. For me, the arrows are not a must-have, just "cool", and not worth an extra $100.

Originally Posted by JackG

JackG,

I don't think you had it long enough. The arrows help in scenarios like this ( from another post of mine of personal experience) ..."I get 2 signals on my V1. One behind, and one in front. Traffic is light on the freeway and it's lightly sprinkling. Only 4 cars including me. The one in front has me puzzled because it's an Infinity, so I concentrate on the two cars behind me. No biggie, I'm going the speed limit. I've traveled this road many times, and sometimes there is a faint false, but it never follows me. Sure enough I spot the car with cop like running lights. As he closes on me, signal gets stronger. I make damn sure I'm going the speed limit. As he passes I spot him. Yup! State Trooper. The other car was probably going 65 but he doesn't pull him over . About 3 miles later, I see flashing lights. He pulls over a white minivan! I'm so glad I got the V1. Any other detector and I wouldn't have known WHERE TO FOCUS my attention."


If falses never occured, then you simply slow down. However, since falses do happen and far exceed real traps, it's annoying slowing down on every warning (false or legit). That's when the arrows help you weed out the falses. The same is true for the bogey counter, on a familiar overpass that gives me 1 false sometimes. Bogey counter told me 2, so I slowed, and sure enough smokey was on top THAT time zapping people.

Originally Posted by JackG

My post was merely an attempt to correct the mis-information that keeps flowing, and to relate a real-world experience I had. It's obvious that many people have become passionate about V1's. Whether it's because of a great product or great marketing doesn't matter. I think they are a good detector, but I'm not a V1 cheerleader. Others are, and that's OK.

That's why I'm here. I wouldn't call myself a cheerleader. I'm like you, here to learn the real deal, and to correct mis-information when I see it. That is my sole purpose in posting this, I have nothing to gain whatsoever and have no agenda. So when you say the arrows aren't that important, you see where I'm coming from. They are important.

Originally Posted by JackG

As you point out, most of the "tests" and forums out there are biased in some way. You point out two tests that rated the V1 as better, but I'm sure you know that there have been tests that rated the 8500 as the winner as well.

I've always felt Car and Driver as being honest and thorough. I also trust GOL. Neither of which have been criticised as biased that I am aware of (which is not to say it's impossible). The Peterson reviews have known critics as you've seen, besides his affiliation makes anything he says suspect.

Originally Posted by JackG

Also, even if one of those sensitivity tests were actually run properly so the results can really be compared evenly, that doesn't mean those lab results will translate to the real world. There are abundant examples of that.

They are comparing it as evenly as possible. It's as good as it gets. Testing conditions are standardized. As for your "anomaly", it does seem strange that it contradicts, standardized scientific trusted sources. I think it was probably due to different sensitivity settings in the respective detectors. I don't know.


In the end, if you're happy with your detector, great good for you. My $100 is well spent on the gas and brake pads SAVED from not slowing down on every single false.

[JackG]

Originally Posted by boxsterz

JackG,

I don't think you had it long enough. The arrows help in scenarios like this ( from another post of mine of personal experience) ..."I get 2 signals on my V1. One behind, and one in front. Traffic is light on the freeway and it's lightly sprinkling. Only 4 cars including me. The one in front has me puzzled because it's an Infinity, so I concentrate on the two cars behind me. No biggie, I'm going the speed limit. I've traveled this road many times, and sometimes there is a faint false, but it never follows me. Sure enough I spot the car with cop like running lights. As he closes on me, signal gets stronger. I make damn sure I'm going the speed limit. As he passes I spot him. Yup! State Trooper. The other car was probably going 65 but he doesn't pull him over . About 3 miles later, I see flashing lights. He pulls over a white minivan! I'm so glad I got the V1. Any other detector and I wouldn't have known WHERE TO FOCUS my attention."

The signal in front was a reflection. The signal behind was the real one. While you were looking at the arrows and around you trying to figure things out, I was lifting and saving my butt. No arrows (falsly pointing at a reflection) needed.

If falses never occured, then you simply slow down. However, since falses do happen and far exceed real traps, it's annoying slowing down on every warning (false or legit). That's when the arrows help you weed out the falses. The same is true for the bogey counter, on a familiar overpass that gives me 1 false sometimes. Bogey counter told me 2, so I slowed, and sure enough smokey was on top THAT time zapping people.

Maybe the 8500 doesn't false as much as the V1, or it is better at weeding out the real stuff. There are places that I travel through that have weak signals (falses), and I've also encountered "real" radar in those places. The 8500 told me very plainly that there was a different signal there.



That's why I'm here. I wouldn't call myself a cheerleader. I'm like you, here to learn the real deal, and to correct mis-information when I see it. That is my sole purpose in posting this, I have nothing to gain whatsoever and have no agenda. So when you say the arrows aren't that important, you see where I'm coming from. They are important.

Not to me.


I've always felt Car and Driver as being honest and thorough. I also trust GOL. Neither of which have been criticised as biased that I am aware of (which is not to say it's impossible). The Peterson reviews have known critics as you've seen, besides his affiliation makes anything he says suspect.

C&D has an adgenda... it's called advertising dollars. GOL may be legit, but it's just some guys that have a common interest. There's no reason to think that they are using good equipment or a true scientific method to do their comparisons. Besides, as I said, a measurement of sensitivity in a lab does not tell the entire story. There are tons of equipment that measure well in a lab, but perform poorly in the real world. Not saying that the V1 is one of them, just that lab numbers are not the only measurement.



They are comparing it as evenly as possible. It's as good as it gets. Testing conditions are standardized. As for your "anomaly", it does seem strange that it contradicts, standardized scientific trusted sources. I think it was probably due to different sensitivity settings in the respective detectors. I don't know.

You're stretching quite a bit there. Unless you are doing the testing, you simply cant make the statement that "They are comparing it as evenly as possible". As you said, you just don't know.


In the end, if you're happy with your detector, great good for you. My $100 is well spent on the gas and brake pads SAVED from not slowing down on every single false.

With my earlier detection, I just lift, so no pad wear. After you study the arrows and figure out if you need to slow or not, those poor pads of yours take a beating, don't they?

Originally Posted by JackG

With my earlier detection, I just lift, so no pad wear. After you study the arrows and figure out if you need to slow or not, those poor pads of yours take a beating, don't they?

Who says I brake unecessarily? Prudence would have it that one would slow down more with less information. V1 got top rating for radar selectivity for falses. No need to "study" the arrows, some people such as yourself may require more time, not me. It takes a glance, same time it takes checking the speedo.



"The signal in front was a reflection. The signal behind was the real one. While you were looking at the arrows and around you trying to figure things out, I was lifting and saving my butt. No arrows (falsly pointing at a reflection) needed."

I'm not sure it was a reflection, the rear arrow went out a couple times when the front never did. It's possible the front car had a jammer. Also other detectors set off the V1 sometimes, without displaying the "J".



"Maybe the 8500 doesn't false as much as the V1, or it is better at weeding out the real stuff. "

Says who? All published testing says otherwise.



"There are places that I travel through that have weak signals (falses), and I've also encountered "real" radar in those places. The 8500 told me very plainly that there was a different signal there."

What's your point, V1 has strength signals too.



"C&D has an adgenda... it's called advertising dollars."

That absolutely makes ZERO sense in the context of this argument, as they could rate ANY detector and get ad money. So why did they top rate V1? Are you asserting that CD is paid to give V1 lip service?



"You're stretching quite a bit there. Unless you are doing the testing, you simply cant make the statement that "They are comparing it as evenly as possible".As you said, you just don't know."

I do not take their word as gospel nor definitive, HOWEVER, from their past methodogy, it's more scientific than myth busters and holds a heck of a lot more weight than YOUR unsubstantiated incident, where virtually nothing could be standardized. I don't expect their study or anyones to be exhaustive as if they had gov't funding. That's what I mean by "evenly as possible", given their resources.


So as you said I don't know with certainty of their findings, but I do know this: I trust both those publications TESTS WAAAAAAAY more than YOUR amateur account.

[RaDaRkInG]

Originally Posted by boxsterz

It can be argued there is a bias there, but that's a stretch. (Although I do believe there are a few dummy forums out there that I ran into, especially Craig Peterson smells fishy http://valentine1.com/lab/V1Hater.asp). I say that because I have read ALL the reviews word for word, and feel he has a clear bias which is unfounded. It's ok to have a bias, it's a free world for the most part. My thing is that I prefer a bias that's well founded. Hey that's why I drive a Boxster instead of a VW bug type I.

Craig Peterson runs Radartest.com and he works for Bel and Escort so he bashes the Valentine One every chance he gets. He tried to sabotage the Guysoflidar radar/laser detector test because he knows they are completely unbiased and the Valentine One usually wins in their testing.

Read about this loser here:

http://www.guysoflidar.com/march-2007/sabotage.html