05 "S' 987 breakdown...so upset. maybe swap to 3.4L?
 

Dear all ... used to drive a 986 and recently bought a second hand 2005 boxster S 987. Couple days later theres some cranking/coughing noise from the engine and I took it to the Factory Service centre in Hong Kong.

The Manager said that its a "typical engine problem" experienced with many 987 and 997 and results in the engine to be replaced under warranty. I have yet to see the full report and diagnosis of the problem in plain english - however since the engine is to Air-freighted in from Germany on the factory's cost, I thoguht it would be silly to argue against a brand new engine swap. Even though this may really affect future resale value.

Anyway my question is... do 987's realy breakdown that easy?? Its only done 9000KMS on the clock. Im certainly upset as it seems like I bought a lemon (cars arent cheap around here unfortunately).

Secondly...any friends here experienced this problem? Im gona call up to see if they can swap the 07spec 3.4L instead of the 3.2, will they ever allow that?

Cheers...

I don't think this is very common.

I don't think the new engine will hurt resale...may even help.

I don't think Porsche will "give" you a 3.4L engine.

thanks for the advice...
i want to get a sports exhaust but im worried they are going to void warranty. the stock exhaust is realy too quiet for me.

with regards to resale value.. HK is a weird place. for many sports cars you acutally get LESS money for modified/upgraded cars. if u have the time, we usualy strip the car before we sell it...!!

Don't know about in Hong Kong, but in the US, if you change a part ( like the exhaust), the rest of the car is still under warranty.

And yeah, they won't give you a different engine if they are going to replace yours. I'd say take what they put in it and be happy. Be even more happy it was under warranty and you don't have to pay for it. ;)

This would actually be the first 987 I've heard of that's actually blown an engine. Wish my engine would blow up--I have 28,000 miles, could use a free new one. :D

ALWAYS keep your eye on your opponent....AND your temp gauge! (b.lee 1973)

It would be nice if they let you pay the difference between the 3.2 and 3.4 so you could get the extra HP/TQ if it was cost effective.

Jeff

Mr Factory Manager called back. explained (sounded like BS) that if I had bought the car brand new from the factory they could replace a higher-spec engine with me paying the diference, can even drop in a 3.6L. but since I bought it as "the second owner" they will only replace the 3.2L.

...4 weeks...%@(*#^(

Wow That Sucks!

This is not unheard of. The box engine has an issue with Intermediate shaft failures. Sounds like that is what you have.

Design flaw like the RMS leak.

Out of curiosity, do you know how much the "difference" would be that you would have to pay to go with the 3.6?

he didnt say, he said its not a formal thing, i think maybe if you're a well known client apparently the sales people can organize something. that would be kickass if you could though. sometimes i get sick of 911 owners looking down on a well balanced car. in fact around here you can buy a 5 yr old 911 carerra-4 convertible, with the same money im paying for a 1.5 yr old 987 S. it may sound silly but i really think the boxster looks better... :)

Hi,

I can point you to 6 or 7 more documented instances of the M96/23, 24 Engines failing.

There's no reason to believe that it's any more reliable mechanically than the previous M96 variants - no substantive changes were made to the Engine or it's design. Essentially, it was massaged to produce more Power, but it was not improved...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

I didn't mean to imply that it was bullet-proof, I was just saying that it was the first 987 engine that I'd heard of that had blown up. 　Haven't seen any on the sites that I frequent.

Not too many bullet-proof engines out there by any manufacturer. One thing's for sure, I don't see any epidemic with the latest series of motors and that's somewhat reassuring as long as the trend continues.

Hi,

You're kidding yourself... they aren't any better, and in fact worse, than the M96/20 engines in terms of reliablity due to the improved Intermediate Shaft...

Happy Motoring,... Jim '99

Actually, there are plenty of engines that do not grenade like the Porsches.

And, they have been doing it since 1997.

Lets not sugar coat this issue, it is real.

:)

Look out, folks, here comes The Porsche Lords!

Why do you insist on trying to say "OH YOU'RE WRONG NO MATTER WHAT". I swear you and Jim just LIVE to beat down on anyone here that posts Incorrect Information!!!!! :p

I came from Mitsubishi Eclipse land, where we had motors grenading every other week in our clubs due to crank walk. The problem with Porsche engines is nothing in comparison, and I hold absolutely zero fear of it. Go ahead and save this post as a bookmark for when my engine blows in the future, I know y'all will relish that. :D

In addition, when I think of all the crap I've put up with on race courses due to under-engineered parts failure, recent Porsche quality looks like Jesus himself.

If I needed a bulletproof engine, I'd have bought something with an LS1 in it.

If I needed a bulletproof engine, I'd have bought something with an LS1 in it.
__________________
I would agree with that statement.

BTW-Jim's opinion is as valid as yours.

I am not sure why it annoys you so much but that is for you to work out.

The fact is, the two design flaws in the Box engine are common knowledge among Porsche folks. They have been written about in Excellence magazine in the tech section.

The Box is a very fine car indeed and there is no reason to lie about its faults which are few and far between. Sad thing is Porsche's refusal to fix them.

:)

PS- I have not heard good thinks about the Mitsu engines but never had one so I don't know.

Well, I don't need to pull a Rodin to work out why I'm annoyed--it's because he always posts as if his opinion is God's own truth. Opinions can be given without making it sound as if you're making a decree. It's not too hard to make a nice, personable post that is also informative, y'know.

Probably just an internet thing, some people don't know how to sound like humans. Mind you, I'm not saying he's wrong (not that I always agree with him, but in this case I don't know much about porsche history; I'm still not living in fear), I'm just saying he's annoying.

I come here to converse with like-minded enthusiasts regardless of experience, not to get gonged off the stage by some grumpus waving the Porsche Jeopardy board game around, or to watch it happen to anyone else. :)

Happy Motoring,... Eric '05

Well, I don't know--I'd say that Porsche is pretty accommodating with their warrantees, in my experience, although you have to rattle the cage a bit. If the engine's out of warranty I don't expect them to replace it if it fails. If they've replaced it for the same failure a bunch of times during warranty, then of course we have something to talk about. I don't know the history with these engines, I know about RMS but that doesn't seem like a catastrophic failure to me.

As for Mitsubishi, specifically the 4G63, it can take a lot of punishment, but it's not easy to keep cool under boost, and the 95-97 engines had a MASSIVE problem with crank walk that Mitsubishi wouldn't fess up to. Other than that, and the glass trannies, not a bad piece of machine to work with. I've helped race countless of these things over the past five to ten years in rally, track and [sanctioned] street races. Open Track Challenge, California Rally Series, LA Street Race, Gran Prix de Tijuana, etc. Fun cars, but a pain in the ass to keep running. :)

Went to see my baby after work today. Diagnosis - Intermediate Shaft failure, the main bolt fixating the shaft in place inside the engine is broken. For some reason (im not that technical on engines) the issue is terminal for Porsche.

They are finalizing the paperwork and it will take 1.5 weeks for them to air-freight a new engine from Stuggart, and then another 1.5 weeks to fix. I just want to get it over and done with. Manager says I am the 2nd 987 and there are also 2 997 with this issue in Hong Kong in 2007.

That doesn't sound good, if you were in this hemisphere, I am sure some of my redneck relatives could fix your car with duct tape and WD40. Too bad you are so far away.

The stats your dealer told you are interesting. So we hear that there are four Porsches in HK that have had this problem so far in '07. It would be very useful to know how many 987s and 997s there are in HK. If the answer is 6, I would say this is the worst problem ever, if it is 6 million, this isn't really a problem worth noting. I am sure the number is somewhere in between, but where? Also, are there any other factors unique to HK that could aggrivate or prevent this problem?

hmmmm...after reading the dissertation on the worst engine designed ever :D , I wondered the same question, 2 987 engines to report in all of HK, doesn't seem that bad.....assumption without the sales figures of course.....

I would say that I've heard of a couple 987's that bit the dust but it doesn't seem to be reunning at the ridiculous inferred 25% rate as some tout on this board......

Actually, you will never see real data on ANY issue from ANY manufacturer on defect rates. So, conjecture is what folks have to go on. Now, in a class action law suit, maybe a manufacturer coughs up some data.

Specific to the IMS issue, to my knowledge, Porsche ALWAYS replaces the entire engine when this happens. I don't believe a repair is viable.

BTW- I never said nor inferred that the Boxster engine is the worst engine ever designed. Far from it, it is a nice piece of efficient machinery.

However, I can tell you that as a guy that has spent a TON of time at the local Porsce dealer service bays, they are taking engines and tranny units out of cars all day long, every day of the year.

Whether it is the IMS or the RMS, something is making them remove the engine and trans units.

Now, I would wager some money that you don't see this in many other HP cars.

However, without data, WHO KNOWS?????????

:)

Well, I don't know--I'd say that Porsche is pretty accommodating with their warrantees, in my experience, although you have to rattle the cage a bit. If the engine's out of warranty I don't expect them to replace it if it fails. If they've replaced it for the same failure a bunch of times during warranty, then of course we have something to talk about. I don't know the history with these engines, I know about RMS but that doesn't seem like a catastrophic failure to me.

I should have been clearer. I meant to fix the design flaw, not repair the failures when they ocurr.

Porsche seems pretty good about warranty repairs.

I bought my 04 Boxster with 13K miles as a 2nd owner in Dec 2005, and the intermediate shaft seized and engine blew up the day I picked up the car. Your warranty will not reset, as the mileage warranty applies to the chassis.

Customer service is dependant on the dealer. I live in Northern California and was lucky I am closest to Michael Stead Porsche in Walnut Creek versus Oakland or Roseville. If I was interested in upgrading, the service manager said they would calculate the cost of dumping an upgraded crate engine, but I would have to pay the difference in additional parts (e.g., new fender with center vent). They were even willing to calculate total costs (crate engine, freight, labor, etc) if I wanted to take a cash payout to take the car to RUF for a 3.4L. The big caveat is if I chose any other path than basic 2.7L replacement, the rest of my warranty would have been void (37K more miles and over 3 years)

I just stuck with the 2.7L replacement. My boss gives me poop to this day because I passed up a golden opportunity, but I bought the car because it's fun and I love the look. In the end, if I wanted an S or a carrera, I would've gotten one instead, and I've had zero regrets making my decision.

Andy

Andy, this is no small point to consider. Given this information, I think you did the right thing.

Welcome to the forum by the way.

hm.... they dont really provide any stats from the factory on sales and inventory figures. i would conservatively estimate anywhere between 4000-8,000 porsches on the road with at least 200-300 each of 987 and 997 on the road. its not a lot i know...but this place is in reality smaller than New York City ...! also this is only 1 of 2 service centres here.

its well documented that its pretty polluted and humid here, maybe that affects the engines. however i had my 9 yr-old 986 for 2 yrs and it had ZERO problems :cool: