Deeeeeppp Trouble! - Page 3 - 986 Forum - The Community for Porsche Boxster & Cayman Owners

luxury1 · 05-07-2007, 01:10 PM

Excessive speeding could happen to just about any of us out here. I found myself doing 85 in a 55 on multiple occassions and I am sure most of the other people on this board have gotten their boxsters up there also (maybe not quite as high as you but maybe low three digits). I think that you have slowed us all down.

I agree with everyone else. Get an experienced attorney because they will have the best take and definitely tell your parents. I know that sick feeling that you have right now. Just do the best that you can in the situation, learn from the incident and continue to look forward (not back).

cfos · 05-07-2007, 01:19 PM

"Excessive speeding could happen to just about any of us out here."

A shame the rest of Pittsburgh isn't so understanding of things like this when it comes to Martha Fleishman. Not that she was speeding, but "mistakes" apparently happen. Ah, but woulds heal and Big Ben is now a Fathead.

Burg Boxster · 05-07-2007, 01:20 PM

James-
As Dr. Kill suggests, you'll want to let your dad know about this for three reasons primarily:

- (99% probability) he will find out about it - best being heard from you not insurance agent, etc. The sooner the better too.

- speaking from experience here (as a parent and also from being in a 'precarious' position once *cough* or twice *cough* in my younger days), he will support you as much as he can to minimize the consequences - not b/c of the $ consequence to his insurance bills, etc., but b/c of compassion. You're still his son and he knows the impact this kind of thing can have on you for a long time.

- his resources are probably 500xs yours - in the legal sense. His personal atty is probably connected, or can refer him/you, w/ someone in that area who either knows the local judge and/or issuing officer and knows the best way to play this thing out. You don't want to get stuck w/ bad representation from a 3AM TV ad or local yellow page atty who claims to be able 'fix it' for you. When you have access to the resources, use them even when getting there might be painful.

Good luck, be safe.

TriGem2k · 05-07-2007, 01:23 PM

@Grizzly - The BMW did get away this time....I saw the man and his wife re-entering the highway about 30miles West of where I had been pulled over. He rolled down his windows and told me he thought for sure I was going to be taken in. I showed him the ticket and he told me he took one of the next few exits and went to a diner to grab some food hoping the Officer wouldn't continue on the highway.

I think it was in his benefit that his car had no License Plates.

jeffsquire · 05-07-2007, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MNBoxster

Hi,

These threads always amaze me. Some owner breaks the Sound Barrier, gets caught, and is instantly hit with the reality of their actions. What did you think would happen?

I guess part of me wants to see the book thrown at you. At least that would be my leaning if I heard a news report of some kid driving a Sports Car in excess of 100 MPH on a public street. People doing what you did kill and maim other people every day and they never thought it could happen to them either, until it does.

But, because we know you, we're all supposed to sympathize with your situation and give you all kinds of advice on how to get out of it.

It's interesting that you seem more concerned with your Parents finding out than you are with the legal ramifications of what you've done. Maybe they're a system which can't be beat.

While it isn't going down all that smoothly, I do hope you come out of this OK. And also, that you learned to confine your 70+ MPH activity to the Track where it belongs and appreciate the meaning of Impulse Control the next time you get the urge to take a speed challenge...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

____________________
As unklekraker said, he fessed up and appears to have learned. I have seen a few young folk in court more worried about their parents then they are the judge. This may be TriGem's scenario. Let's hope he learned, but again he posted for advice, not lambasting.

This reminds me of the first capital case I ever tried. After we were done with a week's worth of witnesses and rested my case, the defense attorney came to me, shook my hand and said, "Jeff, you did a great job, and win or lose, at least tonight you and I are not going to prison for the rest of our lives."

TriGem2k · 05-07-2007, 01:29 PM

Does it make it any better that the Officer circled INFRACTION rather than MISDEMEANOR?

I just spoke to a friend of a friend who said he received a similar ticket going 101MPH and his ticket read MISDEMEANOR and he received 2points, 30days license suspension, and a $1500 Fine.

05-07-2007, 01:33 PM

Dude, if that happend here in fairfax, VA you would have been fcuked, VA SUCKS,

05-07-2007, 01:36 PM

Agree with you Jeff, MN Boxster almost makes it sound like Trigem was being malicious when it's clear he was being capricious. What's the difference? Intent! Speeding tickets are bull**************** items whose only purpose is to make money. In my state, a Trooper died chasing a motorcycle in a Tahoe at 100 plus. The kid is in state pen but talk to any officer and they will tell you chasing a mcy with a Tahoe at 100 plus is just plain stupid. The recklessness is on both sides. Finally, being in medicine, I see people driving that have no business walking. Suffering dementia or worse, frankly I'll take my chances with a kid with a sports car and good reflexes trying to have a good time. You can bet that if Trigem had a tin to display the outcome would have been different, the county's laws are full of hypocrisy.

It's also true he asked specifically not to be castigated in his first post.

yellowbox · 05-07-2007, 01:47 PM

so how much does traffic attorney typically charges? if you haven't done traffic school, wouldn't it be better to pay the fine and pay for traffic school to avoid seeing the judge?? I guess if you got a misdeamonor, that's a diff story.

cfos · 05-07-2007, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrRoentgen

Agree with you Jeff, MN Boxster almost makes it sound like Trigem was being malicious when it's clear he was being capricious. What's the difference? Intent! Speeding tickets are bull**************** items whose only purpose is to make money. In my state, a Trooper died chasing a motorcycle in a Tahoe at 100 plus. The kid is in state pen but talk to any officer and they will tell you chasing a mcy with a Tahoe at 100 plus is just plain stupid.

Perhaps, if the guy on the bike wasn't being "capricious", the cop wouldn't have died. Likewise, out o curiosity was "speeding" the only crime that caused the chase or was there more to being capricious? Or is behavior "capricious" as long as no bodily harm occurs? Personally, I don't think speeding tickets and speed limits are stupid; I agree with MNBoxster as a matter of point.

05-07-2007, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yellowbox

so how much does traffic attorney typically charges? if you haven't done traffic school, wouldn't it be better to pay the fine and pay for traffic school to avoid seeing the judge?? I guess if you got a misdeamonor, that's a diff story.

Whatever the lawyer charges is far and away better than risking the outcome at this speed. The fees contrasted againsts fines and insurance increases will seem cheap in retrospect.

David N. · 05-07-2007, 01:56 PM

Did anyone say...Trial by Declaration? Haha, just kidding, still haven't heard back on mine..

Infraction is definitely better, misdemeanor starts getting into Reckless Driving, which yea adds points and more serious license suspensions. Although wow, 22348(b), didn't know they even gave those tickets out, haha. Let us know what the fine is, if you go to court and ask for traffic school, explain your perfect record and that the straight line road conditions with nobody else around you had no frame of reference and just happened to be going fast. They will probably knock it down a notch to one point and less fine.

-David

05-07-2007, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cfos

Perhaps, if the guy on the bike wasn't being "capricious", the cop wouldn't have died. Likewise, out o curiosity was "speeding" the only crime that caused the chase or was there more to being capricious? Or is behavior "capricious" as long as no bodily harm occurs? Personally, I don't think speeding tickets and speed limits are stupid; I agree with MNBoxster as a matter of point.

I didn't say speed limits were stupid, you did. I said that speeding, in general is a fee fishing expedition. Everyone in NY is doing 80 on the highway, posted speed is 65, it's like shooting fish in a barrel. Oh and speeding was the only crime in the NY trooper case, I've never been through police training and I know you don't try to run down an excellent motorcycle driver with a truck, that trooper is lucky he didn't wipe out a family of six. Lastly, I have family in federal law enforcement, local law enforcement and Sheriff dept. They all speed when they are not on duty, go figure...

Perfectlap · 05-07-2007, 02:02 PM

misdemeanor is bad.

another story on racing....
during my short stint in LE we went down to a state court to visit with the DA. I was working with federal agency at the time.
The state prosecutor came over to us to shoot the shoot and told us that the two defendants in the court aka 'racer #1' and 'racer #2' were being represented by different lawyers. One expensive one cheap.
During "the race" the cars got sideways and they ended up killing the driver of another car. Well to make a long story short, the guy with the good lawyer eventualy got a plea bargain for if memory serves me right manslaughter and a short jail sentence, now the guy with the cheap lawyer got 'death by auto' and got a long prison sentence! The things I saw coming out of state court would make your eyes pop out.

David N. · 05-07-2007, 02:08 PM

Just noticed the chase argument. There was another case in Florida where a camaro trooper was chasing a sportbike at 100+ and the camaro ended up hitting another car and killing the cop and a civilian. The Sportbiker turned himself in and now they want to convict him with double homicide.

I'm not weighing in on the righteousness of that conviction, but rather that despite the danger of a bike going 100+, chasing him at 100+ is highly questionable. The state of Florida has 'no chase' policies, so they leave it for the choppers to keep tabs while the cops stay back. In this case the cop violated and the biker is having to pay. Was pulling over a sportbike worth the danger? I'll leave it up to you guys to have an opinion.

-David

savowood · 05-07-2007, 02:09 PM

A lot of what will happen depends on what already happened.

Did you admit to speeding to the officer? What's here on this forum doesn't matter. What you said directly to the officer is what matters.

If you didn't admit to it to the officer, then you might actually get off. The officer stated he "got you on RADAR". Basically, he doesn't know what he got on his RADAR. It was something, but since he can't see the beam, he doesn't know what it was. He can make a reasonable guess, but since there were two vehicles in range, you might be able to get out of it. Tell the judge you weren't going the speed indicated. You were going faster, but you don't have to tell him that. It's that whole self-incrimination thing. You just need to provide a reasonable doubt that the RADAR displayed the speed YOU were going. If I remember your account correctly, you began slowing down and the BMW passed you. I'm guessing it passed you pretty quickly. Depending on timing, angles, field of view, etc., you stand a good chance of getting off. But, if you're not confident in your appearance and demeanor, you'll get crushed. Get an attorney to help you out. The money you spend on the attorney is going to be less than you'll spend on insurance over the next few years.

Now, go find a group that does track events and confine your high-speed endeavors to the track.

That being said, I should take my own advice. However, since I actually teach to many different law enforcement agencies around the area, I know many of the patrol officers and I usually get a "Oh, it's you!" followed shortly thereafter by a "Have a nice day." If I don't, I hopefully know someone who can help.

The biggest thing to remember is, don't admit to anything on the side of the road. The cop is going to write up the whole incident with decent accuracy right after you pull away. If you admitted to the incident, it'll be in the notes.

-Michael

05-07-2007, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David N.

Just noticed the chase argument. There was another case in Florida where a camaro trooper was chasing a sportbike at 100+ and the camaro ended up hitting another car and killing the cop and a civilian. The Sportbiker turned himself in and now they want to convict him with double homicide.

I'm not weighing in on the righteousness of that conviction, but rather that despite the danger of a bike going 100+, chasing him at 100+ is highly questionable. The state of Florida has 'no chase' policies, so they leave it for the choppers to keep tabs while the cops stay back. In this case the cop violated and the biker is having to pay. Was pulling over a sportbike worth the danger? I'll leave it up to you guys to have an opinion.

-David

David,

Remember he's not chasing a rapist or murderer, he's chasing a guy to ticket him, the chase becomes all about adrenaline. A corvette blew by my cousins undercover car one day and he didn't even try to chase it. He said, look at the lead he already has, it's red and I got the first two digits, I'll see him again, that's the right choice for sure...

cfos · 05-07-2007, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrRoentgen

I didn't say speed limits were stupid, you did. I said that speeding, in general is a fee fishing expedition. Everyone in NY is doing 80 on the highway, posted speed is 65, it's like shooting fish in a barrel. Oh and speeding was the only crime in the NY trooper case, I've never been through police training and I know you don't try to run down an excellent motorcycle driver with a truck, that trooper is lucky he didn't wipe out a family of six. Lastly, I have family in federal law enforcement, local law enforcement and Sheriff dept. They all speed when they are not on duty, go figure...

Well, well, well *L* Obviously you weren't a "gunner" in medical school *LOL*

Here is my direct quote:

"Personally, I don't think speeding tickets and speed limits are stupid;..."

Where am I saying speed limits are stupid? Nowhere. I'm just including my opinion of them along with the opinion I hold for speeding tickets.

As for NY drivers, forgive me, I haven't lived in the Tri-state area since the late 90s and I sometimes forget how everyone there is so much more busy and important than the rest of Amerika. It is a shame about the officer that lost their life. Not being one (like you), I don't imagine I know what I'd do if I was faced with such a thing as a capricious youth on a cycle. I'd be concerned that he might cause an accident and HOPE that if I gave chase with sirens that the speeder would do the "right" thing, like our friend TriGem who may have only been mildly deceptive (?) when trying to exit. Obviously, we'll never know, but that is what I choose to believe.

Finally, just a point about arguments. You end with a fallacy that is generally referenced as "an appeal to authority". I mean, it's all well and good that you have family and know people in law enforcement, but seriously, just because they speed... that doesn't make it right or would you argue it does? Do you run the red light at 2 am because nobody else is up and the 4-way intersection is clear? I don't know.

Edit: Not sure about the murderer or rapist charges as we are currently looking at 2 cases of motorbike infractions nationwide. I do wonder though, do murderers and rapists drive their getaway cars more slowly? Or does that change the "chase mentality" making it more justified?

Frank Patrick · 05-07-2007, 02:22 PM

relatively reliable source told me-if this is your first offense, and assuming you were not "street racing " or under any influence you will very likely receive the following:

$500.00 fine
suspension of drivers lic. for 30 days

husker boxster · 05-07-2007, 02:24 PM

James,

You sound sincere and you are doing the right thing - manning up. There was a speeding ticket thread a couple of months ago and all the guy did was blame everyone but himself. We need to remember we're responsible and accountable for our actions.

That said, I agree with Burg. Talk to your Dad. Say "Dad, I've done something stupid and I need your help". With an opening line like that, a speeding ticket may not be the first thing he thinks of. Certainly he will be mad but will assist you.

If your representation cannot work out a plea bargain and you have to stand in front of a judge, I would suggest saying something like, "Sir, I am very sorry, I have learned my lesson, and I am thankful no one was hurt by my actions". Judges see a lot of smart alec human debris flow past their bench every day. A little humility may go a long way. Then live by those words.

I wouldn't heed the advice of members who say buy a radar detector. We can save that for another thread, but they are not the answer. The cat eventually catches the mouse. Respect the laws or be willing to accept the consequences.

Your experience is exactly why I've resisted the need to go on the north side of triple digits. People ask me all the time how fast she goes. I just say the speedo goes up to 180mph.

Good luck, James.

Terry