Heel N Toe - 986 Forum - The Community for Porsche Boxster & Cayman Owners

Adam · 04-13-2007, 02:54 PM

Hey guys I want everyone to answer this poll just for curiousitys sake and to get input. I am still having a hell of a time trying to get the heel and toe thing down. Today I was out doing an unofficial autocross and it just isn't working for me. I can match revs ok when coasting, but braking and matching revs is very hard...for me at least. Is anybody else having difficulty mastering this proccess?

David N. · 04-13-2007, 03:15 PM

The boxster (IMHO) doesn't have a very good stock pedal arrangement for Heel-and-Toe. Compared to my friend's 300zx, the pedals are quite offset and not nearly as easy to do. Maybe I need to try one of those custom pedal sets or something.

-David

kabel · 04-13-2007, 04:20 PM

I find the pedal placement much easier to attempt heel toe in my Boxster (over my Miata) In fact when I first got the Boxster, on several occasions when I was hard on the brake pedal, I was depressing the accelerator pedal too.
It is just not practical (or safe) for me to practice on public streets. I bet with just a few hours on a closed course I could get over the initial learning curve though.

Perfectlap · 04-13-2007, 04:20 PM

h & T? that's too complicated LOL
I'm working on left foot braking.

h&T just doesn't go smoothly for me in the Boxster like it did other cars.

racer_d · 04-13-2007, 04:54 PM

I do it. Most of the AX venues I run are 2nd gear ones, so I haven't worried about it in an AX evironment. Track - absolutely. Spirited driving - yup.

It takes a lot of practice. Some folks get different pedal pads to better align the pedals, or make them feel closer. Never bothered with them though. Just practice. It will come to you. Then, try Left Foot Braking like PerfectLap. That is one I just can't do. Tried, but not enough to get the delicate feel/balance that my right foot already provides.

04-13-2007, 05:21 PM

I heel and toe every chance I get on the street. I guess that just being an 18 y/o though, lol. Ive gotten pretty good, I dont do hard braking with a flick of the gas to match it, I do regular brake with a slight press down on the gas to match revs. Fun fun...

Boxter · 04-13-2007, 05:25 PM

The irony of this pole for me is that I own a tiptronic...

I learned the heal/tow or "uprev" technique on a race car and I felt pretty comfortable with it after one complete day at the track.

That said I am not sure how proficient I would be with a street car and it's pedal layout.

Paul · 04-13-2007, 05:51 PM

35 years experience, is there any other way to drive?

It's really the ball of your foot on the brake and the right side of your foot on the gas (at least the way I do it--Quad E shoe size).

drburton · 04-13-2007, 06:22 PM

I have been experimenting with it and I am very bad at it. I can match revs without braking but doing it all at once is not coming naturally. If I do get the heel toe to work right then i have problems doing an efficient foot transfer back to the gas coming out of the turn.

I think it just takes alot of practice. I'm going to my first driver training class later this month so I'll be interested to see if they want us to use that on the track.

Paul · 04-13-2007, 06:39 PM

Here's the way I do it (not me in the video):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPj9XXW25GA&mode=related&search=

Boxter · 04-13-2007, 07:04 PM

That video was well shot...but he is primarily illustrating how he is physically able to do it along with some of the reason why you need to learn it for control's sake. He was using almost all ankle and foot control (lots of experience) to make it happen...and I would imagine that would not be very easy to figure out without a ton of practice and instruction.

I am sure there are several teaching tricks to use to develope one's skill but here is how it was explained to me by a racing instructor.

Feels awkward at first but it helped me to learn in it in one day...now let me qualify that by adding that I spun the car a bunch of times by not performing this move correctly over and over again before it began to feel somewhat comfortable.

First, as you approach a turn and you are about to set your break, bring your knees closer together than the fellow in the video...almost to an unnatural feeling where they are almost touching.

Then while applying the break with the ball of your foot on the right edge of the pedal keeping your heel in place on the floor, move/roll your knee outwards and the outside edge of your foot will naturally be forced to blip the go pedal.

Not sure how this comes through with text on the screen but this worked for me in person.

mtch · 04-13-2007, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boxter

That video was well shot...but he is primarily illustrating how he is physically able to do it along with some of the reason why you need to learn it for control's sake. He was using almost all ankle and foot control (lots of experience) to make it happen...and I would imagine that would not be very easy to figure out without a ton of practice and instruction.

I am sure there are several teaching tricks to use to develope one's skill but here is how it was explained to me by a racing instructor.

Feels awkward at first but it helped me to learn in it in one day...now let me qualify that by adding that I spun the car a bunch of times by not performing this move correctly over and over again before it began to feel somewhat comfortable.

First, as you approach a turn and you are about to set your break, bring your knees closer together than the fellow in the video...almost to an unnatural feeling where they are almost touching.

Then while applying the break with the ball of your foot on the right edge of the pedal keeping your heel in place on the floor, move/roll your knee outwards and the outside edge of your foot will naturally be forced to blip the go pedal.

Not sure how this comes through with text on the screen but this worked for me in person.

The method described above is how i was taught several years ago, but the car was a honda s2000. Weak engine not withstanding, that car is designed for a more enthusiastic driver expereince that the Boxster was. I h-t sometimes, but I imagine it helps to have bigger feet when driving the Boxster

Cloudsurfer · 04-13-2007, 07:53 PM

I do H&T the Boxster during spirited driving or on the track, however I will agree that the pedal placement isnt ideal for this (I think partly the bottom hinged gas with the top hinged brake)....at the end fo the day though, its just practice.

Now, H&T double clutch downshifts I still need to work on....

Patrick

eslai · 04-13-2007, 09:59 PM

Been doing it for years and have the 987S down pat. Takes a while to get used to things.

The 987's pedals are perfect for heel-toe. I'm very happy with the stock pedal arrangement. You blip with the side of your foot rather than the heel on most cars these days so the bottom-hinge thing doesn't bother me.

Perfectlap · 04-14-2007, 07:53 AM

don't know if its the clunky shifter in this car but I find myself rarely down shifting, most of my driving lately is highway. I think I shifted 900% more in general with my Miata, about half of that being downshifts.

C5150 · 04-14-2007, 07:59 AM

I can do it w/out a problem, but not in the traditional way. Due to the pedal arangement, I have to roll my foot versus turning my foot and using my heel.

funster · 04-14-2007, 08:05 PM

I do it all the time, it's a right/left side of the foot thing for me. The pedal arrangement seems ideal for this technique. When the brake pedal is depressed, the accelerator is right there.

djomlas · 04-14-2007, 09:26 PM

funny fact, in serbia when getting your licence, (which cost an arm and a leg and takes few months) they teach you this.
so both my mom and dad do it all the time, its part of their driving routine, just the other day my mom wanted to drive my car (she never drove a porsche before) so i said sure go for it, so i was sitting in the other seat, and i saw her do it, she makes it soooo easy, but then again shes been driving a manual car for over 30 yrs now.
so the 1st time i ever got in the car my dad explained all that to me, and after a few tries i had it down. btw, i was like 9 or so, but obviously didnt get much driving time at that age lol, so when i got my licecne i started doing it, i still do it to this day on daily bases :dance:

Goon · 07-28-2015, 04:10 AM

I only do HPDE and don't brake hard. This is the only way I've been able to do it in my 987.1 S boxster. I'd prefer to use my heel like in other cars. My 350Z was great.

http://youtu.be/z5QW-Ofu4ZE

Perfectlap · 07-28-2015, 09:11 AM

^ that's pretty cool. Although have you considered getting a 996 GT3 seat? It's a direct bolt on for your 987 (no need for extra rails) so you can swap in it in 5 minutes at home. Based on your driving position now it seems like you'd be able to keep your shoulder blades relaxed and pinned back against the GT3 seat so that only your arms are moving.

Here's a great in cockpit video of a former ALMS pro driving another guy's GT3