Need Help with 90K Service

[John V]

Originally Posted by boggtown

Lol, see, no one said I had to take off the wheels to do the plugs. Honestly, ive already taken my wheels off and on like 10 times. I just didnt want to do it because it takes me a long time to jack up each side and jack stand it. Also, if Im gonna bleed the brakes, should I go ahead and get stainless brake lines?

You don't have to remove the wheels to do the plugs, but it sure makes it a lot easier. You do have to remove the wheels to inspect the brakes, which is part of your service, correct? And you do have to remove them to flush the brakes (unless you have huge wheels - my factory 18's barely clear my stock brakes).

There is no need to get stainless brake lines. Unless your stock hoses have deteriorated you won't see any improvement at all.

You tell me if they are big enough.

[John V]

Probably. But I'd remove them anyway, just to avoid the risk of scratching them / getting brake fluid on them. Plus, it really does make doing the plugs much easier.

[MNBoxster]

Hi,

There are so many issues with SS Brake Lines that it's safe to say the AfterMarket has over-hyped these tremendously.

First, Modern street cars with oversized Brake Boosters, plenty of available Vacuum Pressure, better designed Master Cylinders, multi-Piston Calipers and better Brake Pad material are all but immune to any slight pressure loss due to flexible Brake Hose expansion. And, the Hoses themselves now conform to much more rigerous standards of Flexibility, Expansion, Robustness and such and are thoroughly tested by the Manufacturers.

OEM Rubber Flexible Brake Hoses are not prone to failure and very few cases of such are known. The Rubber is inert to all types of Brake Fluid and are very flexible and robust. They typically use either Steel or Alloy threaded ends which are crimped to the Hose.

Stainless Steel Flexible Brake Hoses are really a Teflon Hose encased in either Kevlar or Stainless Steel Mesh (or both).

The advantage of this Teflon Hose is that it won't expand under heat or pressure and it is also chemically inert.

But, among it's disadvantages is that Teflon Hose is very Fragile and so must be encased in Mesh to protect it. These too are usually (for DOT approved types) capped by a threaded end which is swaged, or crimped, on the end. The disadvantage here is that since the Hose doesn't expand, the threaded ends must survive much higher pressures than on a Rubber Hose and so these often Do Fail.

Another disadvantage is that the Stainless end caps tend to harden with age, often losing the elasticity required for the threads to lock and they often will loosen and consequently leak fluid or admit air into the hydraulic system. For this reason, the DOT recommends replacing these SS Hoses annually - an involved and spendy practice. This is not an issue in a Racing application where they are generally replaced every season at worst.

Then there is the disadvantage of these Hoses being less flexible due to their mesh outercovering and so they are consequently longer than the OEM Rubber Hoses. This extra length can cause the hose to wear and abrade with the movement of the Steering gear or suspension.

The mesh outercovering can also be damaged by rocks and other debris and can themselves abrade the inner Teflon Hose causing it to fail. For this reason, the better DOT approved SS Hoses use a Kevlar inner mesh to protect the Teflon from the SS outermesh.

The quality of these aftermarket SS Hoses can vary greatly from poor quality materials and workmanship from Taiwan or China, to proper Aeroquip or Earl’s Hose, which are typically much more expensive.

A final disadvantage to these Hoses for Street Use is the inability to inspect the Teflon Hose itself for any wear or damage.

Now, the only ones which are truly any good (read SAFE) are those which are not legal for Street use - non DOT approved. These typically use Aeroquip or Earl’s Speed-Seal ends (also known as Fluor-O-Seal and Fluor-O-Flex respectively). These ends are best available fittings, but they do not meet the DOT specs and cannot therefore be approved - DOT FMVSS 106 specifies that "Each hydraulic brake hose assembly shall have PERMANENTLY ATTACHED brake hose end fittings which are attached by deformation of the fitting about the hose BY CRIMPING OR SWAGING." The idea is that, since crimped-on fittings can’t be loosened, the consumer won’t be able to screw with and weaken them.

Using non-DOT approved SS Brake Hoses can have many negative consequences in an accident investigation, especially in a Personal Injury action, but possibly in a State Safety Inspection as well.

The DOT specification is lengthy and all the required specs are given equal weight. As an example, an otherwise perfectly good quality SS Brake Hose can be failed because the required DOT APPROVED label is stamped in lower case instead of the required upper case.

SS Flexible Brake Hoses do give a Street Car a racier look, but are usually more expensive, less longlasting and actually underperform the OEM Rubber Flexible Brake Hose over time.

You really cannot do any better than the OEM Rubber Hydraulic Hoses - Best to leave these Race-Bred Parts where they were designed for - on the Racetrack!...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

Ok, just figured since they were SS they would last longer, but I see thats not the case. I will be making my shopping list soon, I want to flush the coolant system too, so I will read CJ's thread again and do that. I will probably email Todd and see if he can hook me up with everything.

Just an update, got 88,000 on the clock and so far within the past week ive done the cabin filter, polyrib belt, and the spark plugs. All Ive got left is the fuel filter, and oil change (whenever my dang oil gets in to walmart, its been a month ). Im having the brakes and tranny/differential fluid changed at the dealer. Wish me luck, I will probably get the fuel filter done tomorrow.

Update. 88,800 miles, changed fuel filter. My impressions, pretty easy. Some notes though, make sure you have a cup to catch the gas. Cause there is a lot that pours down on you, much more than I expected. Then I removed the fuel filter, again, much more fuel dumps out than you expect. Have something to catch it with! I got soaked and started to burn all over so I had to get out and let some of the gas evaporate while took my shirt off. It took me an hour and a half total, and half an hour was me being shirtless chilling out.

Still waiting for my oil from walmart... those sons of b!tches... how longs it been since I placed my order, over a month for sure.

[Adam]

Bogg, forget wally world. Did you check autozone Nappa etc etc to see if they have 0w40? My local autozone carries it. Good job on the DYI stuf by the way. How were the plugs? Any suggestions or tips....I have to do mine here in about 3 mo.

I will check the other places, i just figured walmart had the lowest price... on everything... even souls...

As for the plugs, the usefull tool list includes, hex socket and hex key, several different size extensions (such as 3 inch, 2 inch, 6 inch), and definately a flashlight. Take off the wheels and little wheel well things, some say you dont have to take off the wheels but it is the easiest way. Unclip the connector, then take off the coil pack. Some do all at once and label the connectors, but I did one at a time completely. Unclip, unscrew, slide out coilpack, unscrew spark plug, insert new plug, screw it in, place coil pack, and re connect, then move on. Some say to do one side then see if it starts so you know if there are any problems on those 3 cylinders. I didnt, it all works.

Originally Posted by Adam

Bogg, forget wally world. Did you check autozone Nappa etc etc to see if they have 0w40? My local autozone carries it. Good job on the DYI stuf by the way. How were the plugs? Any suggestions or tips....I have to do mine here in about 3 mo.