Sullivan Pontiac dealer relly *^&^@# us over - 986 Forum - The Community for Porsche Boxster & Cayman Owners

djomlas · 03-25-2007, 10:43 AM

we were looking for a car for my mom since she sold her beloved galant that she racked up over 100K miles realllllly fast
so we went to the dealer and 'bought' the car, signed what it seems like endless amount of paperwork like any other new car purchase.
got home and looked over at the paperwork closely to find out that there is a 7100 dollar payment due after 4 years.
those mother*&^*&% signed us up for a lease of some sort without EVER mentioning it, we walked in to buy one and they sign us up for a lease. so the car ends up being about 21 grand. we got the base model, came in to the lot, a nice sales guy comes and asks how he can help us, we said how much for a G6, he said 17, i said we were at other pontiac dealer and they were giving it to us for 13, so he said well beat that and we settle for 12,800, go in sign the papers and that was all.
if we were looking for a car for over 20 grand pontiac wouldnt even be in consideration, but it cought our eye with good price and warranty and all that good stuff, plus being a new car and all (we were originally shopping for a used car in tht price range)
we'we had a car for a week now, and theres like about 150 miles on it

what do you guys suggest we should do about this, or if we can return this, this is really retarted and we feel that we have been screwed really bad.
i will give them a call on monday and see what they say, but what do you guys suggest?

03-25-2007, 11:16 AM

DJ, sorry about your situation.

1) Talk to the dealership
2) Go all the way up to the dealerships GM if needed
3) Maybe send a letter to the Illinois Att. Gen's Office
4) Always read all the paperwork prior to giving your verbal or written authorization.

Paul · 03-25-2007, 03:57 PM

Take it back, hire a lawyer if necessary.

It may not be a lease, it may be a "balloon Payment" loan.

If so the cost of the car didn't change, but your monthly payments should be a lot lower than a loan without the balloon.

Paul · 03-25-2007, 03:59 PM

Here's some info:

http://www.vertex42.com/ExcelTemplates/balloon-loan-calculator.html

http://www.paranzasoft.com/help/pages/caBalloon.html

blinkwatt · 03-25-2007, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djomlas

what do you guys suggest?

I would call ahead of time and ask if (person who sold you the car) is working,if so drive down there,find him,keep eye contact with him,walk straight towards him,kick him in the nuts,leave the keys next to him on the floor and stop all payments on anything related to it....BUT FIRST MAKE SURE IT IS 100% A LEASE!

djomlas · 03-25-2007, 04:44 PM

well the payments ended up being 208 dollars a month for 48 months, and then a 7000 dollar payment at the end if you want to keep it.
now me and my parents went to get her a car, not lease it, so we would obviously say something if we heard lease in any way.

Brucelee · 03-25-2007, 04:48 PM

If you signed the deal you are likely in a hole (depending on the state).

You probably should run this by a lawyer, who should know if you have a legal remedy.

Clearly, most of us are NOT in a position to give you good advice.

Good luck!

Cloudsurfer · 03-25-2007, 05:00 PM

That is exactly a balloon payment loan, commonly called things like "Smart Buy" by GM. The ones I've seen give you the option to either pay the lowered payment like a lease and then turn the car in, or pay the balloon payment at the end and keep the car.

While it sounds like you clearly didnt get what you had wanted, you're looking at the math incorrectly here: When you wanted to pay say $13k for the car, if you financed that over say 48 months on a normal car loan, of say 8%, that winds up being a payment of $317.37 for a total of $15,233.66. Now, being that this is GM, if you have decent credit you should qualify for 0% financing or whatever current promotion they have, and at the end of the day you're not going to pay much interest on a $13k car anyway, but you cannot look at the sum of the payments on a car and compare that to the price of the car. In this case, the deal clearly doesnt work out being anywhere near attractive. For some, the reduction in payment of roughly $100/mo is enough to overlook the fact that one would be paying a $7k balloon payment at the end, but anyone remotely wise in their finances would recognize that this is not a good deal.

That said, I would first call the dealer and talk to the GM, if that doesnt get you far enough, call Pontiac and/or GM corporate consumer affairs and file a formal complaint against one of their dealers and/or consult your state's attorney general. A firm letter from an attorney would likely end this situation if you have a friend who would be willing to write it.

I would first call and talk to the GM nicely, but firmly, and explain that it appears one of the sales or financing gentlemen did not take care of your purchase properly and ask what he's willing to do to make things right. You might wind up with the car even cheaper after the mistake.

Patrick

MNBoxster · 03-25-2007, 05:36 PM

Hi,

Go here: http://www.ag.state.il.us/consumers/auto.html - this speaks Directly to your issue. Good Luck!...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

djomlas · 03-25-2007, 05:44 PM

Jim,
i see the issues the site talks about, but how does that help me?
contact her and see what she says?

MNBoxster · 03-25-2007, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djomlas

Jim,
i see the issues the site talks about, but how does that help me?
contact her and see what she says?

Hi,

Yes - obviously you are not alone. Contact the AG and file a complaint, they are duty-bound to investigate it and this will give you leverage with the Dealer.

A couple of points though - don't drive the car - the Dealer can charge you wear and tear - usually exorbitant for a car they need to take back. Also, write to the Dealer stating your issues and send it certified to the GM, not the Salesman (the AG will probably insist on this prior to acting on your complaint). Contact the BBB and send them a letter, turns up the heat slightly and helps end this dubious practice - help the next guy.

I'm not making any guarantees about any of this, but you need a starting point (assuming you wish to return the Car or change the agreement to a purchase) and these are the most logical ones...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

jeffsquire · 03-25-2007, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djomlas

Jim,
i see the issues the site talks about, but how does that help me?
contact her and see what she says?

_______________________

Before you do anything talk to them first. If that doesnt work then speak to the manager. If that doesnt work write a letter to the dealership and cc it to regional and national headquarters. Call the dealership, regional and national headquarters to confirm they've recieved your letter.

This is potentially bad business for them even though you presumably signed an arms-length contract (meaning you werent "coerced" and such). Give them a deadline and tell them you will seek "alternate remedies available by law" if they don't respond to you.

remember, THE SQUEAKY WHEEL GETS THE GREASE.

Ray · 03-25-2007, 07:16 PM

I had to take a dealership to small claims court ... they called 2 days before to settle... FYI Situation was similar in regards to "misleading".

der Geist · 03-25-2007, 09:21 PM

DJ:

Make sure you document EVERYTHING in writing, the sooner the better as memories fade pretty quickly. I can't tell you how important it is to document every conversation regarding this whether it is with the salesman or the GM-it does not matter. If a judge or arbitrator sees that you have been diligent about this it goes a long way. It also helps if you can send written copies of your conversations to the AG when you file your complaint there. I think that you can forget about the BBB though. They are just a letter writing agency that keeps track of complaints in order to sell memberships. I was in a legal battle with a shady landlord once and when I was able to quote day, place and time of the conversations the judge was very impressed. I ultimately won the case and I think that had at least something to do with it. It goes a long way to bolster up your side of the he said-she said argument. You will always see a good lawyer making notes when he is talking on the phone (typically to use them AGAINST someone). Also check and see if there is an early payment penalty clause. If there isn't your cheapest method of resolving this may be to get the car refinanced by a reputable lender, you will probably get a much better rate. Lawyers fees are gonna stack up quickly especially in the Chicagoland area. I had always heard that financing a car at the dealership was the worse place to do it unless there was a special program. But even then you have to be careful as in your case. I am no expert in financing autos but I am sure that there must be someone here who will substantiate that. Best of luck to you with it.

denverpete · 03-26-2007, 07:33 AM

Can't speak for other states, but in Colorado you have 3 days to return a new car purchase for any reason. They will charge you for the 3 days you have it - but you can return it. Perhaps there is some sort of law like this where you live?

MNBoxster · 03-26-2007, 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffsquire

_______________________

Before you do anything talk to them first. If that doesnt work then speak to the manager. If that doesnt work write a letter to the dealership and cc it to regional and national headquarters. Call the dealership, regional and national headquarters to confirm they've recieved your letter.

This is potentially bad business for them even though you presumably signed an arms-length contract (meaning you werent "coerced" and such). Give them a deadline and tell them you will seek "alternate remedies available by law" if they don't respond to you.

remember, THE SQUEAKY WHEEL GETS THE GREASE.

Hi,

Great Advice! I assumed they had already tried to reverse the deal with no-joy and was seeking advice on how to proceed to the next step...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

PS @ DenverPete - there is a 3-day Return Consumer Protection Law in Illinois for purchases over $500, but Auto Sales are exempt - go figure - never underestimate the power of a Strong Lobby!

djomlas · 03-26-2007, 08:32 AM

so i just got off the phone with the deale.
here is what he said:
go to yor bank and refinance it and you will get a better rate.
im like i dont want to do that, i came here to buy and finance a car, so y would i want to refinance a car after owning it for a week?

he finally agreed that when we get the 1s stub for payments to come in and they will refinance it and make the payments be as follows:
72 months for 210 dollars, this is including taxes, interest, and everything, so that adds up to 15120 or so on a 13 thousand dollar car.

MNBoxster · 03-26-2007, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djomlas

so i just got off the phone with the deale.
here is what he said:
go to yor bank and refinance it and you will get a better rate.
im like i dont want to do that, i came here to buy and finance a car, so y would i want to refinance a car after owning it for a week?

he finally agreed that when we get the 1s stub for payments to come in and they will refinance it and make the payments be as follows:
72 months for 210 dollars, this is including taxes, interest, and everything, so that adds up to 15120 or so on a 13 thousand dollar car.

Hi,

Hey - Good News! And, it's a Purchase as you wanted and not an extended Lease?

Do yourself a favor and send a letter to the Dealer recapping the points in your phone conversation - something to the effect: " To recap our Phone Conversation today, I understand that..." This will document the call and prevent any future misunderstandings/misrepresentations. Great news!

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

djomlas · 03-26-2007, 10:12 AM

Jim,
yes, after the last payment we get the title and keep the car.

so, so far its working out, just have to wait a week and h alf or so to get that 1st payment stub, pay 1st rate, and then bring in the recipt and they will fix the paperwork.

jeffsquire · 03-26-2007, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MNBoxster

Hi,

Great Advice! I assumed they had already tried to reverse the deal with no-joy and was seeking advice on how to proceed to the next step...

_________________________
I see absolutely nothing in is initial message or any message thereafter to indicate he tried to reverse the deal. Did I miss something>???

As it turns out it looks like he's making headway.