Go Back   986 Forum - for Porsche Boxster & Cayman Owners > Off Topic > Site Assistance or feedback here.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-31-2013, 06:24 PM   #1
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 7
IMS help! New owner

Hi Everyone. I bought a 98 2.5 with 130K miles, perfect running condition. It came with extensive maintenance records, several thousands over the years, and the car looks spotless new. However, I cannot see any record about the IMS bearing replaced.
I would assume it has been replaced, but it would give me peace of mind if there was a way to verify it. I tried contacting the previous owner, but no answer.
Any advice? Is there any way to check?
Thanks!!
jchboxster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2013, 06:31 PM   #2
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Miami florida
Posts: 1,589
No way to check, but 98s have the double row IMSB, which has a failure rate of less than 1%. I wouldn't worry about it. Just replace it when you do the clutch.
__________________
Current car

2000 Boxster 2.7l red/black

Previous cars

1973 Opel Manta
1969(?) Fiat 850 Convertible
1979 Lancia Beta Coupe
1981 Alfa Romeo GTV 6
1985 Alfa Romeo Graduate
1985 Porsche 944
1989 Porsche 944
1981 Triumph TR7
1989 (?) Alfa Romeo Milano
1993 Saab 9000
san rensho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-31-2013, 06:50 PM   #3
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 7
San Rensho, thank you for your reply. I sent you a private message. Thanks.
jchboxster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2014, 06:23 PM   #4
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Myrtle Beach, SC
Posts: 80
I agree, I worried my self to death before I installed the IMS Guardian!
Goodbiketime is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2014, 04:30 PM   #5
Registered User
 
Mart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Singapore
Posts: 27
Have the same 2.5L block in my 97 boxster, just pulled the IMSB at 80,000km as a preventive maintenance measure, bearing seal was still very much in tact and bearing exhibited little play.
As San mentioned, the first gen 986 came equipped with a double row bearing with a comparatively lower fail rate than the later single row bearings.

As advised by many gurus on site here, best treat them as maintenance items and you should be fine. What prompted me to look at it was oil on the ground. As it turned out, it was the RMS and rubber seals on the auto transmission pump.

Slapped on a LN retrofit IMSB, changed the hardened rubber seals and the AOS at the same time with the transmission box off and she runs like new now.

Last edited by Mart; 02-10-2014 at 03:48 AM.
Mart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2014, 06:50 AM   #6
Registered User
 
Bobiam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Unionville, CT
Posts: 442
A very experienced aftermarket Porsche garage owner told me that the double row bearing has a major advantage that when it fails (and it will) the first row that goes makes enough noise (if you're lucky) that if you shut it down really quickly and tow it away you likely have not done serious damage as the second row is holding things together briefly. But with a single row bearing, the engine is likely shot when you hear it go.
Best of luck.
__________________
2001 Boxster, GT3 console delete, lower stress bar, RoW M030 suspension package, painted bumperettes.
Bobiam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2014, 08:37 AM   #7
Registered User
 
thom4782's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Foster City CA
Posts: 1,074
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobiam View Post
A very experienced aftermarket Porsche garage owner told me that the double row bearing has a major advantage that when it fails (and it will) the first row that goes makes enough noise (if you're lucky) that if you shut it down really quickly and tow it away you likely have not done serious damage as the second row is holding things together briefly. But with a single row bearing, the engine is likely shot when you hear it go.
Best of luck.
Never heard this double row, slower failure, theory before. I wouldn't place much value on it. If the bearing starts to fail, it will scatter metal pieces throughout the engine, which will cause long-term problems. So while, the bearing may not have failed so far for the engine to destroy itself, it's not a good thing. If you're worried, replace the clutch and the bearing and put the issue to rest.
thom4782 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2014, 09:01 AM   #8
Registered User
 
Bobiam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Unionville, CT
Posts: 442
Quote:
Originally Posted by thom4782 View Post
Never heard this double row, slower failure, theory before. I wouldn't place much value on it. If the bearing starts to fail, it will scatter metal pieces throughout the engine, which will cause long-term problems. So while, the bearing may not have failed so far for the engine to destroy itself, it's not a good thing. If you're worried, replace the clutch and the bearing and put the issue to rest.
The Porsche mechanic (we're talking the owner of a full race shop) has changed hundreds and did this half day lecture for the PCA local chapter at his garage. He says the double row bearing failure will make itself known....so, if you hear it you likely have safe seconds or minutes to shut it down. Believe what you will. He also said that once the IMS bearing is replaced you should think about doing a 50,000 mi replacement if you truly want to stay safe.

Personally I have 60,000 mi and my clutch is fine. If I had a lot of money to throw at it, I wouldn't have a 13 yr old car!
__________________
2001 Boxster, GT3 console delete, lower stress bar, RoW M030 suspension package, painted bumperettes.
Bobiam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2014, 09:55 AM   #9
Engine Surgeon
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Cleveland GA USA
Posts: 2,424
Quote:
He says the double row bearing failure will make itself known....so, if you hear it you likely have safe seconds or minutes to shut it down.
Dual row bearings do take longer to fail, because they have twice the load carrying capacity over a single row.

That said, if a bearing goes long enough to be heard the oil filter has already become clogged with a large amount of debris which pops the bypass open (non-filtered oil) and feeds material laden oil to the main and rod bearings.

There are pros and cons of OEM dual row bearings, remember, bearing failure is generally NOT what takes the complete engine out, its the harmful ferromagnetic wear materials that create secondary conditions that are much more costly to repair and harder to overcome.

So, while a dual row OEM IMSB is stronger, it has twice as many wear components to create wear debris and the engine runs longer before the bearing completes stage 4 failure, meaning that debris has longer to do its job of chewing everything apart.

Retrofitting the IMSB and following the service interval set forth by the Mfr of the replacement bearing that you choose is the key.
__________________
Jake Raby/www.flat6innovations.com
IMS Solution/ Faultless Tool Inventor
US Patent 8,992,089 &
US Patent 9,416,697
Developer of The IMS Retrofit Procedure- M96/ M97 Specialist
Jake Raby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2014, 11:00 AM   #10
Registered User
 
Bobiam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Unionville, CT
Posts: 442
A ball bearing is made up of an inner and outer race, balls, a retainer that keeps the balls in the correct distribution spacing, and 2 seals. Early on, metal will start to flake away from all metal components, but it's hard to imagine those tiny chips and flakes, and perhaps a chunk of flat rubbery seal clogging a filter the size of a Porsche filter cartridge.
__________________
2001 Boxster, GT3 console delete, lower stress bar, RoW M030 suspension package, painted bumperettes.
Bobiam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2014, 11:51 AM   #11
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: It's a kind of magic.....
Posts: 5,032
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobiam View Post
A ball bearing is made up of an inner and outer race, balls, a retainer that keeps the balls in the correct distribution spacing, and 2 seals. Early on, metal will start to flake away from all metal components, but it's hard to imagine those tiny chips and flakes, and perhaps a chunk of flat rubbery seal clogging a filter the size of a Porsche filter cartridge.
And that is a $15k+ bet that you would loose; even running engines have shown up with a ton of metal in both the oil filter and the sump from a failing IMS and the collateral damage the circulating debris had already done:







The OEM by-pass valve on the factory filter housing has a bad tendency to stick open even with the oil is clean, much less full of shavings.
__________________
Anything really new is invented only in one’s youth. Later, one becomes more experienced, more famous – and more stupid.” - Albert Einstein
JFP in PA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2014, 03:26 PM   #12
Engine Surgeon
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Cleveland GA USA
Posts: 2,424
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobiam View Post
A ball bearing is made up of an inner and outer race, balls, a retainer that keeps the balls in the correct distribution spacing, and 2 seals. Early on, metal will start to flake away from all metal components, but it's hard to imagine those tiny chips and flakes, and perhaps a chunk of flat rubbery seal clogging a filter the size of a Porsche filter cartridge.
The filter doesn't have to clog completely! The factory bypass is horrid and will open fully at start up if the filter is only 30% blocked and thats with 0 weight oil.

Unlike other engines that have a bypass that sends bypassed oil back to the sump, the M96 doesn't do this as it simply pushes a plunger down and allows the bypass oil (material laden) to go right through the center of the filter. This is how bypass oil delivers death (if material laden) to all other internally lubricated components of the M96 even if the filter is NOT clogged, as at start up the filter will always bypass a portion of the oil. When that bypass spring is exposed to excess temperature the spring loses tension and therefore open sooner and bypasses even more oil.

If you have enough debris in the filter to be noted with a naked eye, its enough to pop the bypass. People don't know, what they don't know about this system. It takes seeing failures everyday to understand the dynamics behind it.

So, the filter does NOT have to be completely "clogged" to increase bypass oil. I have redesigned the entire primary oil system, its the next product that you'll see released and it solves this problem.
__________________
Jake Raby/www.flat6innovations.com
IMS Solution/ Faultless Tool Inventor
US Patent 8,992,089 &
US Patent 9,416,697
Developer of The IMS Retrofit Procedure- M96/ M97 Specialist
Jake Raby is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
bearing , ims


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -8. The time now is 12:32 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2018 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page