Woody's build thread

[silver-S]

I assume you were required to follow all the PCR safety inspections and test your lug nut torque at the autocross, right? If not, your region's AX people are being negligent in the safety department. And so were you. This is nothing personal against them -- I get the impression that laxity in AX safety inspections is pretty common. And then the people running get complacent and ... uh oh.

I keep a Harbor Freight torque wrench and deep socket in my AX box and use it religiously. Cost of the tools was under $20 (on sale) and even if the numbers are 5% inaccurate, it's still a worthwhile investment, IMO. And your experience makes me think I should be checking my lug nuts AFTER running autocross, as well.

But if you DID check the torque at the AX and they still came off, clearly some of those parts you were using should have been sent to the recyclers.

[itsnotanova]

Thanks for your concerns. My wife was making fun of me for days after it happen because I was walking around with my head down about it. Now I look at the situation as a blessing. Things could have gone so much worse than they did but all that really happen was I was out of about $300. I'm bringing it up now because I've been changing wheels and never explained on this thread why I changed from the black wheels. Silver-S, The wheel falling off happen before the auto-cross event. Not like the inspection for the practice event was very thorough though. They basically looked at my car for one second and stamped it good. By that time I had already been ultra paranoid about the lug bolts even if they had checked them. Now I'm checking them like every 100 miles. I've been driving around with a fire extinguisher and torque wrench on the passenger side. Fred, I'm guessing three of the lug bolts had already come out and there were only two holding the wheel on when I went for a spin that day. I think I found the last bolt to come off and it had stripped maybe 8mm from the hub as it came out. I didn't go looking for the other bolts

I weighed the rear wheels of all my wheels with tires.
The factory 987 17 inch wheel/tire 45#
The black knock off 18 inch wheel/tire 55#
The arena red knock off 19 inch wheel/tire 60#

[Nine8Six]

This have happened to one guy we know here in SH (can’t find his vid now for some reason). He had genuine $1500/each BBS wheels on his bimmer. Residential CCTV concluded that the thief couldn’t complete his job and left the passenger side lugs just sitting on one thread (F & R wheels). Friend ended up losing one front. Just like you; mid speed, no warning, one second of wobbly’ing and ding-ding-ding off it went. Damage was incredible apparently because his locked and exploded in the footwell, passenger door couldn’t even open if I remember in his vid.

That’s what happen when you have 20” or 21” wheels I’m guessing

Side note Woody. No panic. Rotation of the wheel is the same as the thread lock pattern. Hence making it near impossible for lugs to unscrew, in fact it does quite the opposite. According to legends, the concept of “torquing” lug bolts is primarily to ensure that you do not ‘over-torque’ them, not the other way around – although also quite important lolll. Regardless, 99 cases on 100 of lug/hub documented failures were caused by over-torquing; cracking, stripping, etc, the internet has it all.

But here, I think you win something Woody. NEVER I’ve heard/read of even 4 (four) lugs unscrewing themselves in seconds. Are you dead sure all five were on the wheel before?? If there were only 2 then yes it could make sense that the wheel failed – but the only reason for that is only because you failed to install hub centric spacers, nothing to do with your meaningless 0.5mm thin silicon imo. Hub Centric Spacers => 10mm being a must man

For info Genuine Porsche wheel/hub design works with two lugs only. The 3 others lugs are for aesthetic loll

Ps . 8mm striping is 4 threads on a M14. X2 should have given you plenty, you really got unlucky there Woody :/ Don’t bother wasting money on lottery tickets, trust me on that one man!
Pps . I love wheels

[78F350]

Originally Posted by itsnotanova

...

I weighed the rear wheels of all my wheels with tires.
The factory 987 17 inch wheel/tire 45#
The black knock off 18 inch wheel/tire 55#
The arena red knock off 19 inch wheel/tire 60#

Woody, thanks for sharing it all. Glad you came out of it with just a story to tell and a few hundred less in your pocket. I was considering buying cheap spacers and lugs for my Carrera wheels, but you talked me out of it.
Our '01 came with 20s. The rears are 20x11 ET52 with 275/30ZR20 and weigh in at about 65 lbs. Not a choice I'd make on purpose, but it was an online auction purchase and I liked the look. I have 18s ready to go on, but just don't have the heart to do it.

[BruceH]

Originally Posted by itsnotanova

I weighed the rear wheels of all my wheels with tires.
The factory 987 17 inch wheel/tire 45#
The black knock off 18 inch wheel/tire 55#
The arena red knock off 19 inch wheel/tire 60#

That is a huge difference! No wonder you felt the difference, time to find something lighter I do still like the looks, but looks aren't everything

[itsnotanova]

I wouldn't be too afraid of wheel spacer. I've had good luck with them in the past and didn't have anything go wrong. I had a set of wheel spacers on a Chevy Malibu that I had turned into a pro-touring beast. 355hp, 405 ftlbs, under 3000lbs and tubular suspension. I had 3 inch spacers on the back of that car and I use to beat the tar out of it. I completely F'd up on the boxster and shouldn't have done the things I did. I got those spacers/lug bolts off a Boxster that I had dismantled. Whoever put them on that boxster used liquid nail or something similar. I used a putty knife and tapped it with a hammer to get them off. Yes using no spacer is better than using one but I wouldn't hesitate to use spacers if you need to. Just don't be a dumbass like me. Nothing wrong with spacers. Heck even Ford uses 4-6 inch spacers to turn their front Dana 60 single axle into a dual rear wheel axle to use on one ton trucks.

[78F350]

... I was considering buying cheap spacers and lugs for my Carrera wheels, but you talked me out of it. ...

Originally Posted by itsnotanova

I wouldn't be too afraid of wheel spacer. I've had good luck with them in the past and didn't have anything go wrong. ...

Right, I didn't mean not to use spacers. I meant that I had been thinking of using the cheapest ones I could find on eBay that fit. Now I realize that material and design of the spacer and lugs really does matter.

[Nine8Six]

Originally Posted by 78F350

Now I realize that material and design of the spacer and lugs really does matter.

^ Correct. My 2cents RE spacers:

I actually make those “custom” for teams and other track cars here (not only Porsche) and have a little business going on in JP also. We get orders in the 13mm spacers as much as we get them in the 18mm and do custom adapters also. For info the Porsche wheel hub assembly tolerance is /-0.05mm (concentricity and parallelism, from factory of course). I know… hard to believe. Go ask them they’ll confirm that with pride (it’s a Porsche you have Sir!).

So when your friend Markus tells you, no paint, no dirt, get rid of the rust, etc… he is NOT joking. If they are not installed ‘permanently’ flat then both the wheel and your safety will soon be compromised. Although I don’t see Woody’s silicon being the main culprit in his little adventure. I mean look at the spacer; no hub support (floating?!), open PCD, and possibly the wrong alloy, silicon or not my guess is they would eventually have brought in trouble (Asia rocks for other things, not Porsche spacers!).

So when you’ll be out to score wheel spacers, buy them from those who knows what they are doing lolll H&R in Germany for instance, they are two others that I know who also machine theirs within TOL and uses the correct 7075 alloy mix. No comments for the rest of the manufacturers… we’ve actually seen quite a few actually. Illegal s h i t e I tell ya lollll

RE materials; we have to import ours from Austria here as the local 7075’hardness is literally near the same as the 6061 grades anodized/heat treated or not. No Go for “performance” spacers. The local stuff simply deforms & compresses. Use local grades alloy and you’ll have to re-torque your wheels every bloody weeks simple as that.

So… you see. Nothing is simple :/ You’d think a spacer is just a silly dumb plate and bahh it’ll work man. Possibly just fine for cruising down the neighborhood, going to buy some milk at the store etc (I actually agree) but the reality is its not always like that, one day you’ll need to maneuver that Porsche car and its at that moment that you and your passenger will appreciate your properly engineered and machined spacers.

Keep away from Asian spacers (please, folks)

wheel spacers

[Nine8Six]

Nearly forgot, anything thicker than 10mm needs to be hub centric (to tolerance also loll). I.e. the orange highlight in the following grab

No No floating thick style spacers folks



ps: I'd really like to market those but it is near impossible to compete with those in the industry already. When you account from sml qty material imports and custom precision machining, they end up costing an harm and leg Maybe one day if we have to make 100+ pairs then prices may get a tad better, until then, we cave here lolll (custom orders only)