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http://i765.photobucket.com/albums/x...pso3m6fxvj.jpg This thing barely fits in there. Even the headers are about 1/2 inch from hitting the aluminum bracing. It' good that I bought a semi-solid engine mount, because there's no room for it to wiggle around(Thanks Steve!).I had to notch the back sheet metal close to the intake tube for the tube to clear. I combined an intake tube from a 996 and a 1/3 of a 986. You also will notice I changed the brake vacuum attachment. The previous design wouldn't clear the 987 engine cover. I used the 986 attachment but extended it a few inches. http://i765.photobucket.com/albums/x...psfcjec83l.jpg |
Wow that's tight. You have enough room up top for the intake tub when the engine moves?
How does the ride height of the whole car look with the engine in. Does the bigger motor weigh much more? |
Did you use the stock transmission mounts or did you user lower mounts? Some years ago FVD Brombacher (German Porsche tuner) had a 3.4 conversion kit for the 986. They used a different front mount - kind of subframe and other transmission mounts. I think the transmission mounts where from a 993. They hadn't clearance problems like you - nothing had to be cut out. I think the 3.4 engine was dropped about 1 inch or so compared to the 3.2 engine. Also you should check if the engine has enough clearance if it moves. This looks very tight.
Regards, Markus |
The spacers used in my conversion measure 3/4" and at some point a custom 3" intake was fashioned for it. I'm still pretty new to the car and the forum but did take some pics. Its tight but things seem to be working ok and the motor has bee in the car almost 70K miles. Not sure how to tell what type of rear mounts I have?http://986forum.com/forums/uploads02...1460823464.jpg
http://986forum.com/forums/uploads02...1460823622.jpg http://986forum.com/forums/uploads02...1460823646.jpg |
When looking to do this swap, I only found two sources for step by step procedures on swapping the 3.4 into a boxster. Both had the flapper valve towards the front and top. I just assumed that's how it had to be. Going that direction does not leave you much room at all and that's why I decided to notch the area around it. I really have to thank cbadbox for the pic. I tried it like yours, and there's soo much more room flipping it over like yours. I didn't need to notch that area but I'm glad I notched the area by the intake runner and intake horn. I like having the extra space if need be. My Chinese headers hit the aluminum brace a little, so I'll notch that a little too.
http://i765.photobucket.com/albums/x...psvk4yj3ue.jpg Another bad idea was trying to bring the shifter cables under the intake. I thought I read somewhere that was better than going over everything. It's not! I had to take everything apart and bring them back over the intake. Another great tip. Make sure you connect all your electrical connectors correctly and securely. I had the cam position sensor and the crank position sensor switched. I also didn't have 4 & 6 injectors fully connected. It's alive!!!!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8OiUb9IOMj4 My oil pressure gauge works but I had it disconnected at the time I was taping. My water temp does not work though and I'm betting that's because the 996 I pulled the motor and DME had the 4 post temp gauge and my 3.2 engine wiring harness used the 2 post water temp gauge sender. I'm using the factory trans mounts because the one's I had were good and I was too cheap to buy new mounts. |
Woody I am glad the pic help out, more dumb luck versus technical knowledge on my part.
Mario |
Woody I am glad the pic help out, more dumb luck versus technical knowledge on my part.
Mario Oops double post, looks like I need some technical work on posting as well! |
Must feel great resurrecting one from the dead.:cheers: Congrats
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http://i765.photobucket.com/albums/x...psnwr7gj1b.jpg I also had to remove this from the fuel rail because the threaded part was rubbing against the 987 air box.That piece is used for the return fuel line on the 996, but it's bypassed on the swap. http://i765.photobucket.com/albums/x...psa61bput8.jpg I've spent the last few days working out some bugs. I had to replace the number 6 fuel injector. I also got the temp gauge to work. Turns out I have a 2001 3.2 engine harness, and that was the first year Porsche switched to just two wires for the temperature gauge. 97-2000 986 and 99-01 996 used four wires. Two went to the DME and two went to the cluster. The 2001 boxster only has two going to the DME. Easy fix once you figure out all you need to do is run two wires from the sensor to the black plug in the trunk. |
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http://i765.photobucket.com/albums/x...psrjtlwatj.jpg
The box is on the Doc's table getting an alignment. He's one of the best alignment guy in all of Texas. People from all over the state bring him their cars for suspension work. My box is nothing compared to what is normally in his shop. If you don't believe me, just check out his Facebook page. Soulspeed performance. Highly recommend him! He has a spec boxster and lots of the race guys bring him their boxster to work on. |
Today was a wonderful day because I'm finally part of the family. I'm officially driving a Porsche Boxster and I'm not a poser anymore. The box is street legal!! No more driving up and down my street. I took it for it's maiden voyage and it was mostly amazing. I think it feels a little down on power compared to the 996 ,but I still have some things to look into. Exhaust being the biggest. Otherwise it performed exactly how I expected. I do have some comments on things I've done to it and how they performed.
First off is the engine. This is how it should have came from the factory. It's a sports car and now it feels like one. The 3.4 has just enough power to bring it to the right level. It took a lot of money and time, but I think it was worth it. I am a little greedy and wish for more though. It still feels like the right mini van could give you a run for your money in the quarter. The interior is not really that loud with all the insulation removed. It is however really hot. It feels like the heater is blowing on you from behind. I started off down the road with the windows down and no AC. After about five miles I put the top down and it was tolerable. I was running with the AC pump bypassed at first to lesson the amount of things that could give me trouble. I've worked out most of the bugs associated with how it runs so I'll be installing a complete accessory belt tomorrow. Another issue I'm having is my fans are not working at all and that might contribute to the heat. They were working at first but it seems like ever since I got the cluster temp working, the fans stopped working. Might be coincidence. I don't think my air pump is working either but the engine fan is. Some more stuff to look into. The box runs at about 185 and climbs to around 200 if I stop. I'm so glad I removed the top mechanisms and built that latch so everything can be manual. It really only takes a few seconds to raise or lower the top. It may not be for everyone but it simplifies that whole contraption greatly. I love the coilovers! Thanks Randall! They are very stiff and it feels like a go kart. They are definitely not for someone who wants a Cadillac ride. You won't like them if you live in a state with bad roads either. This part of Texas has great roads and the solidness they give are much appreciated. It's a bummer I don't have any roads close by that are curvy enough to put them through a test. As stated earlier, the exhaust needs some work. I have the Chinese headers followed by secondary pipes from a 97-99, and then a Dansk sausage muffler. Those secondary pipes are tiny and I'm thinking about fabricating my own using the exhaust/cat from a 996. I'm hoping that will help with flow and sound. I'm not sure what to do about the muffler yet. It's only 3 lbs lighter and not that much louder than the factory muffler. It does sound good after 4000rpm though. I'm thinking I might cut it open and see about removing weight and restrictions. Besides working the bugs out, the exhaust is last on my list and then this thread will be done. Almost forgot to add. I have come to love arena red and everyone seems to comment about the color. At some point I'll need to repaint the whole car because you can tell which parts I painted. It matches perfectly at some angles and light, but other angles there's a difference in color. http://i765.photobucket.com/albums/x...pszzwxnswp.jpg |
Congrats
Well done mr patience. Love when people take the time to do things the right way
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Congratulations Woody!
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Woody congratulations! :cheers:
I have been following along and wanted to say thank you for taking the time to share. This thread has increased my understanding about my 3.4 conversion. I'll continue to follow, look forward to your quest on optimizing the performance. |
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Hello itsnotanova,
fans threshold: I don't know if the fan relais gets an analog or a digital bus signal in your car. If it's analog voltage signal you can use a voltage divider to modifiy the signal. If it's an digital bus signal you can use a port sniffer to detect the signal and manipulate the input of the relais via a bus controller. The other option would be to reprogram the DME. But i don't know if there is an option in PIWIS developer mode to do this on your DME model. Arenared: these dark metallic colors are really difficult to paint. Best is to blend in the new color in old color and do an overall new clearcoat. Regards Markus |
Congrats, Woody. It looks great!!
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As for the paint. It's not too bad of a contrast and totally ok for most people. I'm a little picky when it comes to things like that. The rest of the car could use another coat of paint anyway. Especially the hood and front fenders because they have lots of rock chips on them |
Sorry guys but I was being a new father. Over reacting and nervous about everything. I just took it for a spin and it stayed on the 8 the whole time. Like I tell a lot of people. I'm an expert at taking them apart but not so much putting them back together. I did have someone try and race me already.
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I'll post it on the forum when I receive the sockets ;) Good job with your car! Ben |
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I'm dirtier than I look.:D That's why I wear black a lot.
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I've had the 3.4 for a little while and it just doesn't feel as strong as it did in the 996. In the 996, the 3.4 felt stronger as the rpm's went up. In the 986, it feels flat until about 3000 rpm and really kicks in at 4000 rpm. The only thing different between the 986 and the 996 are the intake and exhaust system. The 987 air box and MAF I used are very similar in size to the 996, so I don't think that's the problem. I think my problem is the factory 986 exhaust system. It doesn't take too long looking at the 986 exhaust to realize how restrictive it is. I had already gone with aftermarket headers and a Dansk sausage muffler, but I still used factory secondary pipes. Here's a picture of pipes used on the 986 and 996. (Still not using gloves!:p)
http://i765.photobucket.com/albums/x...pseqyj4jdo.jpg The smaller one is the factory secondary pipe used on the 986 and it measures only 36mm. That leads into the U pipe at 42mm which then leads into the Dansk muffler that looks to go back down to 36mmish. The large pipe is used throughout the 996 exhaust system and it is 52mm. That's a big problem to me that the 3.4 in the 996 gets these huge pipes but the 986 has these little pea shooters. I'm thinking that my power loss is because of these tiny pipes that I'm using and that leads me to my experiment. I'm going to build my own exhaust using what I have laying around. In my arsenal of exhaust parts are 996, 987 and Audi S4B5 pieces. After a lot of cutting up exhaust parts and some thinking, I ended up with this. I've gone with 52mm pipe all the way back to a modified 987 muffler. I've also eliminated the secondary 986 cat pipe. You might ask why am I using the 987 muffler? First off it's free, and secondly it uses larger pipes inside it. I didn't get a chance to measure them but I would guess it uses somewhere around 50mm tubes inside it. My main goal is flow and I think the 987 muffler can handle the 3.4. I also like the sound of the 987 muffler and it has catalytic convertors built into it. I don't live in a county that test emissions, but it makes me feel a little better that they're there. Here's a normal 987 muffler http://i765.photobucket.com/albums/x...pspfnddkgg.jpg And here's a little taste of mine. I've got it almost complete and will post pics when I'm done fabricating http://i765.photobucket.com/albums/x...psbabdw4fi.jpg |
Look forward to reading about the results!
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Hello woody.
2 videos from Motortrend / Freiburger for you: The Power of 2.5- vs. 3-Inch Exhaust: https://youtu.be/_PVXvHkr-Vs Exhaust Header Bash! Testing Power Loss From Dents: https://youtu.be/azPKIjxmmdU OK, the engines can't be compared directly, but the result will be similar. Please also note that the 2.5 exhaust system is different to the later 2.7/3.2 exhaust system. On the last photo it looks like your system has only one exhaust pipe at the end. If that is like it looks i would say that's a design fault. Not because of optical aspects, but of technical aspects (overall diameter). Very interested to hear about your final results. Regards, Markus |
After watching that Motor Trend video and seeing your project, I predict you will sell all of your 987 s mufflers within a week or so after you do your testing. I'm watching this one closely!
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Maybe the larger 987 exhaust is part of the puzzle as to why the exact same engine in a 2005 Boxster S makes more HP than the exact same engine in a 2004 Boxster S. And why the 2004 Anniversary Edition 986 S splits the difference in HP (since it has the 987 airbox but not other pieces including the exhaust?)
2004 986 S: 258 HP 2004 Anniversary edition: 266 HP 2005 987 S: 276 HP Since it is the same engine, I think (and I heard of someone doing this I think) they just took the whole exhaust of a Cayman, including the manifolds, and put in on their 986 Boxster. |
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when I come off track -- I turn it back on -- to cool the engine as it kicks the radiators on -- AND raise idle, increasing water pump circulation :-) Mike |
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In response to Markus,
I checked my supply and the exhaust manifold tubes are slightly bigger on the 00-04. The 97-99 exhaust manifold doesn't have the pre-cat's, so I'm guessing they might flow better. One of the best Porsche mechanic in Texas has a liking for the early 97 manifolds because he thinks they flow better. Some early 97's have a flat spot on them and that's how you can visually tell. On that note, I took a picture of the factory manifolds that I have. Starting from the left we have a 2005 987, early 97 flat manifold, 00-04 and a 2001 996 exhaust manifold. I didn't get around to measuring, but the 996 and 987 look close to the same size. http://i765.photobucket.com/albums/x...psxordgljk.jpg While I was at it, I took a picture of the secondary pipes from the 986 and 996. The 97-99 and the 00-04 are the same size and the only difference appears to be the lack of an O2 bung for the 00-04. It looks like they still kept the heat shield though. http://i765.photobucket.com/albums/x...psl9tvp6el.jpg From the research I came up with, the 987 base and S share the same muffler but have different tips that attach to one 70mm singular exit tube. I would have loved to have two separate tubes coming out of each muffler at a better angle. The factory muffler has the exhaust gases exiting towards each other and then making a 90 degree turn out. I'm thinking tomorrow I'll fabricate something to help the exiting gas flow better at that point. http://i765.photobucket.com/albums/x...pszcpfcfuz.jpg My modified 987 muffler looks larger in this pic, but it's only a few inches wider than the 986 muffler. It's about the same total height in the middle but a few inches narrower on the sides http://i765.photobucket.com/albums/x...ps8iqu5mog.jpg |
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I'm too lazy to try and wire something up to manually control the fan at this time. I'll probably run my AC like you and Mike do. My only reasoning that I would like an override switch might be when you really need to cool an engine down fast. As in heater blowing and windows down. The car should have the fans going anyway, but I'd like to make sure. |
Hello woody,
thank you very much for the pictures and comparisons. BTW nice shoes. :D ;) What i was not aware of, when writing my last post, is that the US 986 00-04 headers have an additional catalysator. The ROW headers don't have that. They look more like the 97-99 header manifolds. The 97-99 exhaust system seems to have a different designed muffler system than the later cars. I think it's pretty obvioius thet the 987 and 996 have a bigger diameter. In general the diameters in automotive industry are measured in inches (exterior diameter). So i would suspect from your measuring the 986 systems are a 1,5" (38,10 mm) system whereas the 987 / 996 systems seems to be 2" (50,08 mm). If you can delete catalysators that is always a good idea to gain power. But you have adjust the ECU tuning, else there won't get a big benefit (in general stock catalysators are 400 cell catalysators). What does the exhaust tip diameter has to be if have two 2" (50,08 mm) inlets? So one inlet has an area of 1970 mm2. Now we have to calculate that back for 2 inlets and get a diameter of 70,82 mm or 3940 mm2 for an optimal exhaust tip diameter. (Please note that all values are rounded.) So if the singular exit tube is 70 mm it's absolutely OK and correctly designed. In my personal opinion 2 separated exhaust tips won't be a plus because of the x-pipe factor. A before and after dyno run is always a plus. ;) Regards, Markus |
Made this today
http://i765.photobucket.com/albums/x...psonqvbswq.jpg and put it in here. http://i765.photobucket.com/albums/x...psqlrdfwva.jpg Now I'm waiting for the exhaust wrap and O2 fooler to come in the mail. I weighed the factory exhaust system from the headers back and my exhaust system is 13.5 lbs lighter. |
Hello woody,
couldn't see from your pictures exactly what you are doing, because some importatnt parts where too dark. So i adjusted the brightness a little bit. Hope that is OK. http://986forum.com/forums/uploads02...1463732233.jpg http://986forum.com/forums/uploads02...1463732256.jpg 13,5 lbs is a lot. Very interested how the final result comes out and if you're satisfied with that solution. Regards, Markus |
Thanks Markus. I didn't notice how bad the pic was until I had already welded that piece in. I hate the camera on the IPhone5S. I had a phone ten years ago that took better pics. That piece I made is to help direct the exhaust gases out the tailpipe instead of facing each other. I cut two little pieces off some U pipe and welded them together. I then welded them to the back of the piece I cut out of the back.
http://i765.photobucket.com/albums/x...psodtx52bw.jpg |
loving your exhaust work,,,
So is it on the car yet?
Any thing you would do differently next time? are you wraping or adding heat sheilds, it looks like you've moved it closer to the trans and cv joints? installed pictures please. thx for sharing. matthttp://986forum.com/forums/uploads02...1463750935.jpg all because My ecu choice will not support 2 pair of O2 sensors. runs great tho, and sound is great, I can have a conversation or hear the radio at certain lower revs... So this is how I plumbed my Subaru 2.5 NA SOHC 4 banger, the headder flange mates to OEM stock Boxster exhaust system....if I want to run stock or AF. |
details are always key...
internal cleanup...http://986forum.com/forums/uploads02...1463751194.jpg
rear mounting... http://986forum.com/forums/uploads02...1463751227.jpg the best part is the look on peoples faces when they hear a subaru burble (un-equal length y pipe) and see my "little" exhaust tip. |
I wish I had access to a mandrel tube bender and a tig welder. I'm using a mig and it's challenging trying not to burn through such thin metal. The tubes are made up from five different pieces and each joint is a weak spot for future cracking. I also wish I could done a better job with the exit pipe. Two separate pipes would flow better. I didn't have anymore 90 degree 52mm pipe so I stuck with the 987 section. I haven't got it installed yet because I'm waiting for exhaust wrap to show up in the mail. I live in a small town and none of the auto part stores had any in stock. Build thread?
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