I read where the 2.7 motor blows up for no real reason...

[Brucelee]

Actually, the engine design issues around the Int shaft failures and the RMS are well documented and commented upon in Panorama, which as you know, is hardly anti-Porsche. This information is presented matter of factly, much in the same manner as when they comment on the 944 engine losing timing belts and along with them, valves, cams etc.


Moreover, if you have been a Porsche used car dealer like I have, or if you spend a lot of time at a dealer where the service bays are accessable (which I have) you would be astonished by how many of the cars there have to whole engine/trans unit out of the car. I don't think this is done to detail the engine compartment but, hey you never know.

I have no idea if 25% is the right number on these engines. However, there appears to be no dispute that there are several design flaws in the engine alone.

My service tech readily admits to this and told me point blank he is not allowed to tell me how many of these engines actually fail.

This is all just data. No one said the sky is falling, just that it might!

[Brucelee]

BTW- it is significant that my dealer can obtain a replacement engine from Porsche in 24 hours. Why do you suppose that these are so readily available?

[berj]

Originally Posted by Brucelee

BTW- it is significant that my dealer can obtain a replacement engine from Porsche in 24 hours. Why do you suppose that these are so readily available?

Again, I don't dispute that this is a problem.. heck, thinking back I will be checking the oil stains in my parking space when I get back home next week -- I always thought they were old. My only interest is in figuring out what the probability of these failures are.

There's a difference between pointing out that there is a problem -- that's good -- and throwing a number like 25% failure rates around without any basis for it -- that's bad.

Berj

[MNBoxster]

Originally Posted by berj

Again, I don't dispute that this is a problem.. heck, thinking back I will be checking the oil stains in my parking space when I get back home next week -- I always thought they were old. My only interest is in figuring out what the probability of these failures are.

There's a difference between pointing out that there is a problem -- that's good -- and throwing a number like 25% failure rates around without any basis for it -- that's bad.

Berj

Hi,

Well since Porsche isn't talking, there can only be other sources. Various Polls have been conducted and while I concede that they are not by and large empirical, there is nevertheless some valuable information to be gleaned from them. Just because Porsche isn't talking doesn't mean the issue doesn't exists, or that it doesn't affect a significant number of cars.

Several other Forums have also conducted polls. One says 35%, our own says 25%-30%, and one in the UK states 40% but is including the 996 as well. All these seem too high to me.

Several months ago, I got a pair of Homeplate Seats for a Twins game. I called a friend of mine to invite him, but he said that he had a short meeting to attend and that I could come as his guest and we would proceed on to the game from there. Anyway, my friend works in Auto Sales, and the meeting was the TC Metro Auto Dealers Assn. My friend was being given an award for his work with a local Charity group which we are both involved in.

Anyway, the meeting began with a cocktail social. My buddy is busy working the room and I spot Doug Mulder, GM of one of the two Porsche Dealerships in town (Maplewood Imports) standing with another guy. I had met Doug on several occaisions and so I went over to say Hi. Doug introduced me to his guest, the local PCNA Area Rep. We chatted about Porsches in general, how the Cayman was selling, and such. Then the topic of warranty claims was brought up, so I told them that the RMS issue was getting a lot of press in the user forums, that several polls had been conducted and the results were around 30%, which I thought was too high. The Rep. said "it is, but close..." I asked 25%? and they both agreed "that's about right - 20%-25%..." Lacking any other source, this to me is the most Official data I have heard and this is why I use that figure.

Regardless of the actual statistic, the incidence is high, relatively speaking. Should Porsche ever decide to share their information, it would only indicate the extent of the problem, but would do nothing to solve it. Not until Porsche does a significant revamping of the M96 engine will the problem improve, not just a series of Band-Aid fixes or miracle new seals.

This will of course not benefit any of us, but future models will be immune. As a side note, there are now documented RMS failures on both the Cayman and the 997, so it appears the issue persists...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

[C5150]

Found a list from Consumer Reports (2005) featured on Yahoo Autos

Here's the link: http://autos.yahoo.com/consumerreports/article/best_and_worst_used_cars.html;_ylt=Ahbc7MKgto2K6dp GaZXjZIRrc78F


Don't want to stoke the fire one way or the other - but didn't see any Porsche on the WORST list. That said - I didn't see any Porsche on the BEST list either...

What I DID see was my Chevy Blazer - and I believe it - bit over $8K on repairs thus far... And now the pulse motor for the wipers is toast, and they go at whatever speed they choose - whenever they choose....

Still lovin' the box - C5150

[ohioboxster]

I think Jim made up those 25 pages in Yahoo's search engine just to fuel the conspiracy. Dont get me wrong Im not douting there are 25 pages regarding RMS I just think Jim authored them all ! Why, Jim Why?!

I asked my buddy today as a matter of fact about RMS issues on 911's. I said, "Chad, what do you know about rear main seals on 911's, how many leak?" Chad replied, "All of them" For the new guys, Chad owns a high end car lot in the Akron area.

I think he's lying and possibly in on the conspiracy.....bastard.

We were however talking about 2.7's blowing up though. Lets not get too far off base.

[JackG]

For clarity's sake, don't forget that Jim's conversation was about RMS issues, not failed engines. The 20-25% number includes cars that just had to have the rear main seal replaced, not the entire engine.

How many of those will leak again? Unknown.

How many of those were, or will be out of spec and need a replacement? Unknown.

It's obviously not every one, but some small percentage of that 1 in 4.

Point is, 25% do not have to have an engine replacement, at least not from any poll, measurement or hearsay anyone can point us to.

Here's to being in the 75%!!

[z12358]

MNBoxster:
Not at all well-prepared, all I did was type Boxter RMS problem? in Yahoo's search engine and there were more than 25 pages of results, I only drew from the first 6 pages.

Type in "Lexus engine problem" in Google. 2,040,000 entries. Have fun with it.

You are trying to defend an indefensible position in the face of all the evidence, anecdotal or not.

Perhaps you can also tell me what my position is? Please refer to my previous posts and pay special attention to "frequency and severity". And there is no such thing as anecdotal evidence. Especially not in a world when THIS thread can be used as "evidence" by Jims on other forums.

Can't wait to hear from you when your garage floor is covered with Mobil1...

Geez, Jim. Wouldn't that be the ultimate proof and happy ending for you. Me wrong and miserable -- you, right and happy. I'll see what I can do.

Z.

[Brucelee]

Originally Posted by C5150

Found a list from Consumer Reports (2005) featured on Yahoo Autos

Here's the link: http://autos.yahoo.com/consumerreports/article/best_and_worst_used_cars.html;_ylt=Ahbc7MKgto2K6dp GaZXjZIRrc78F


Don't want to stoke the fire one way or the other - but didn't see any Porsche on the WORST list. That said - I didn't see any Porsche on the BEST list either...

What I DID see was my Chevy Blazer - and I believe it - bit over $8K on repairs thus far... And now the pulse motor for the wipers is toast, and they go at whatever speed they choose - whenever they choose....

Still lovin' the box - C5150

That may be true. However, if memory serves, Porsche is #61 or so on the JD Powers 3 yr customer satisfaction survey.

Not good but of course, not definitive.

[Brucelee]

Here's another quote from it:
"Porsche was awarded the 2006 J.D. Power award for highest initial quality of automobile brands.

See my reference above on LONG TERM JD Powers data.

Originally Posted by Brucelee

BTW- it is significant that my dealer can obtain a replacement engine from Porsche in 24 hours. Why do you suppose that these are so readily available?

I can give you at least 2 reasons:

1) Good customer service
2) They don't require many engine replacements, so why not keep a couple handy in the USA for fast turn-around

Heck, when United or American or Delta need an engine, they fly one in on the next flight, and smack her in, in a couple hours. Does that mean GE makes poor engines because they can replace them quickly?

[Brucelee]

Originally Posted by bmussatti

I can give you at least 2 reasons:

1) Good customer service
2) They don't require many engine replacements, so why not keep a couple handy in the USA for fast turn-around

Heck, when United or American or Delta need an engine, they fly one in on the next flight, and smack her in, in a couple hours. Does that mean GE makes poor engines because they can replace them quickly?

This may all be true. However, my service advisor told me otherwise without telling me so.

If you get my meaning.

[z12358]

Sammy:
They are providing the right product to a specific market that allows them to maintain their profit margins (granted I don't even know if this is true or not so if you have some stats that would be awesome!).

I just found this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porsche :
"The company has been highly successful in recent times, and indeed claims to be the most profitable car company in the world (in terms of profit margin per unit sold; its absolute profits would be dwarfed by Toyota) [2]."

Here's another quote from it:
"Porsche was awarded the 2006 J.D. Power award for highest initial quality of automobile brands."

Now Wikipedia may be as good as a post in a forum (lack of sources, citations, etc.) but I've read about the highest profit margin claim elsewhere and seems that it's widely accepted.

Z.