I read where the 2.7 motor blows up for no real reason...

[MNBoxster]

Originally Posted by Grizzly

We've had this same discussion over and over. I'll say it again...Cars break. All of them break. If the car breaks, fix it. If you don't want to fix it, sell it. But quit yer friggin' whinin' about it.

You are not a prisoner of the Marque. No one is forcing you to own the car. If you don't like your odds and you find others' failure rates more appealing, by all means trade in your junk and buy one of their offerings.

Oh, it leaks. Oh, it breaks. Oh, it's not quick enough. Oh, it eats tires. Oh, my Pacer was much more reliable. Oh, my Vega never had these problems. Oh, my Ford dealer never put me through this when my Aspire imploded. Blah, blah, freakin' blah.

The car has flaws. The company is not doing enough to correct them. You may have certain difficulties with it. It is an expensive car to fix. It's also the most fun you can have with your clothes on (unless you drive naked and then, well it's immeasurable ).

If bulletproof reliability is what helps you sleep, buy a Camry. I like beige Camrys with brown corduroy interiors. I think they're very attractive. My Grandmother has one. It leaks...and sometimes...it breaks.

Hi,

That isn't the point of the discussion here. The point is value and that's what you expect when you pay the premium price for a Porsche. It may drive like stink, but the anxiety factor can heavily dilute any joy you get from that.

There are a lot of 1st time Porsche owners in this group, buying pre-owned Boxsters. They aren't necessarily sitting on loads of surplus cash which they can earmark to fix a problem that even Kias don't experience.

Add to this that a $12k engine replacement in a $20k-$25k used car, not because it was pressed, but because Porsche chose to design an engine which was simple and cheap to manufacture (not so they could lower their price point, but so they could better line their own coffers) and prone to failure, means that these owners are basically buying a car in the low-mid $30's, but without realizing it. Many would not, or could not do that. If they'd known this upfront, they would have likely gone for a lower priced and performanced, but vastly more reliable, Miata, Mustang or Z3, or one of the Japanese Sport Coupes.

And, unlike many other manufacturers who've experienced their share of failures, Porsche, after more than a decade, isn't getting out in front of this or candidly informing the Public. Many view this as a form of deception, leaving Forums like this to expose that the Emperor really does have No Clothes, despite the urges from the Marque faithful to Hush.

You own a '97. If it implodes, I suspect you'll simply dispose of it. But, for others, they simply cannot take the hit...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

[Boxtaboy]

Originally Posted by MNBoxster

Hi,

That isn't the point of the discussion here. The point is value and that's what you expect when you pay the premium price for a Porsche. It may drive like stink, but the anxiety factor can heavily dilute any joy you get from that.


Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

Sorry, I don't agree that the point is that value is what you expect when you pay the premium price for a Porsche. Value is what you expect out of a Honda purchase, not a Porsche. When you buy a Porsche, you may expect prestige and performance, and at a higher cost than many alternatives, but certainly not value. I agree totally with Grizzly. Stop yer whining already. If you don't like what Porsche is doing or not doing, talk with you wallet and buy somethin else why dontcha?

[MNBoxster]

Originally Posted by Boxtaboy

Sorry, I don't agree that the point is that value is what you expect when you pay the premium price for a Porsche. Value is what you expect out of a Honda purchase, not a Porsche. When you buy a Porsche, you may expect prestige and performance, and at a higher cost than many alternatives, but certainly not value. I agree totally with Grizzly. Stop yer whining already. If you don't like what Porsche is doing or not doing, talk with you wallet and buy somethin else why dontcha?

Hi,

Clearly, we disagree. You can call it whining if you want, but that simply isn't so, it's just calling it like it is. Sorry if that disturbs you or your choice.

I have already decided to sell my Boxster, even though I've had no problems with it at all (though PO had an RMS replacement at 4k mi. - dry as a bone 24k mi. later). Frankly, the Car just really isn't that great. It has some good points, but it's also heavy, underpowered, poorly designed, potentially unreliable.

I don't care about owning a Porsche, that's no badge of honor for me. I've already owned them and have owned many more prestigeous cars in my time. I've had the Boxster 2 years and half my friends don't even know I own it or have seen it. Interestingly, it's just not the kind of car I would want to hold on to. I don't envision selling my Lotus Esprit (owned 17 yrs.) or Datsun 240Z (owned 34 yrs.) in the foreseeable future, but the Boxster just isn't that kind of car to me.

I was looking for a Miata when this one came along and was too good a deal to pass up. I can sell it today for more than I paid. Been there, done that, got the 'T' shirt. So many cars... so little time. I think I hear a new direction calling...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

[Boxtaboy]

Originally Posted by MNBoxster

Hi,

Clearly, we disagree. You can call it whining if you want, but that simply isn't so, it's just calling it like it is. Sorry if that disturbs you or your choice.

I have already decided to sell my Boxster, even though I've had no problems with it at all (though PO had an RMS replacement at 4k mi. - dry as a bone 24k mi. later). Frankly, the Car just really isn't that great. It has some good points, but it's also heavy, underpowered, poorly designed, potentially unreliable.

I don't care about owning a Porsche, that's no badge of honor for me. I've already owned them and have owned many more prestigeous cars in my time. I've had the Boxster 2 years and half my friends don't even know I own it or have seen it. Interestingly, it's just not the kind of car I would want to hold on to. I don't envision selling my Lotus Esprit (owned 17 yrs.) or Datsun 240Z (owned 34 yrs.) in the foreseeable future, but the Boxster just isn't that kind of car to me.

I was looking for a Miata when this one came along and was too good a deal to pass up. I can sell it today for more than I paid. Been there, done that, got the 'T' shirt. So many cars... so little time. I think I hear a new direction calling...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

Glad you are putting your wallet where you mouth is. Again, I was talking disputing your specific statement about "value", and how it didn't apply to buying a Porsche. Again, you expect value in a Honda purchase, not a Porsche.

Also, my choice is not disturbed, as I am absolutely loving the car.

Good luck with the next in line.

[JackG]

Originally Posted by MNBoxster

Hi,

I have already decided to sell my Boxster...
Frankly, the Car just really isn't that great.

I don't care about owning a Porsche

I can sell it today for more than I paid.

I think I hear a new direction calling...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

Well... don't let the screen door hit you. :dance:

[MNBoxster]

Originally Posted by JackG

Well... don't let the screen door hit you. :dance:

Hi,

Oooh... somebody didn't take their Happy Pills today...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

[z12358]

MNBoxster:
"My confidence level is greater in my Esprit (by a factor of 10) than the Boxster, despite Lotus reputation as being China Dolls. In fact, in 16 yrs. owning my Lotus, the only failures I ever had were directly related to pushing the car, and I drive that car HARD!"

So Jim, what do you say to those naysayers in a Lotus forum that may be unhappy paying a Lotus premium for an unworthy China Doll?

Z.

[z12358]

MNBoxster:
"I have already decided to sell my Boxster,..."

Jim, if that would also mean that we'd lose you at this forum, that'd be quite a loss indeed. Speaking for myself, I really do appreciate all the knowledge you've shared here so far.

Z.

[MNBoxster]

Originally Posted by z12358

MNBoxster:
"My confidence level is greater in my Esprit (by a factor of 10) than the Boxster, despite Lotus reputation as being China Dolls. In fact, in 16 yrs. owning my Lotus, the only failures I ever had were directly related to pushing the car, and I drive that car HARD!"

So Jim, what do you say to those naysayers in a Lotus forum that may be unhappy paying a Lotus premium for an unworthy China Doll?

Z.

Hi,

My 22 y.o. Esprit has about the same power (2.2L 4 Cyl - 215HP), about the same weight (2780 lbs.), slightly shorter (165.4"), slightly wider (73.2") slightly lower (44.2"), 7200RPM Redline, . But, it will run rings around a Boxster in the straights (0-60 in 5.0sec. 165MPH Top Speed) or the twisties (1.12G), or the Brake area - 60-0 Braking Distance - 105'.

It makes a huge difference when putting up with Foibles if the car really delivers. Porsche coulda made the Boxster that way, but they chose not to. It's a Boulevard, See and Be Seen, Cruiser, albeit admittedly nimble.

The Lotus is in fact a pretty robust car, not nearly deserving of the reputation. much more reliable than was my Elan SE or Europa Twin Cam Special. In 44k mi. of Driving, almost never city, mostly Open Road or Track, the only failure I experienced was a melted #4 piston brought on by a Lean condition due to a failed Intake Gasket leak at 36k mi. and this even drove me home 186 miles on 3 cylinders, though it wouldn't go over 61MPH doing so. Sounds stupid, but I was at BIR (Brainerd International Raceway) and the car ran, even with the Piston failure. I knew exactly what happened and that I'd be rebuilding the engine (for $2k) anyway, so I figured I couldn't hurt it any worse, and every mile closer to home would mean a cheaper tow (Has to be a Flatbed), so I kept going, with a friend following, and it got me home. Still started the next morning, though it sounded like ********************.

People who think the Esprit is a China Doll are uninformed non-owners. Peruse the Esprit Forums and you won't find catastrophic engine failures which result from design flaws. 99% of all engine catastrophies in the Esprit are from failed or improperly tensioned timing belts (read Owner ignorance or negligence), or from actually pushing the engine too hard over Redline. They are 1960's technology (Lotus 910 Engine powered the Jensen Healey) with Dellorto carbs and plugs which need to be changed every 5k mi., Oil every 3k mi., eats rear tires, Fuel Tanks can rust out (replace with Alloy units), but other than that, and the odd Lucas electrical gremlin (which I have had none of), they're pretty reliable. Parts are about 1/2 what Porsche charges and readily available. They don't rust. You could buy a reasonable example for $10k. And... James Bond never drove no Porsche...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

[Grizzly]

First and foremost. Silverstreak, I was not picking on you. You asked a completely legitimate question about engine failures. My rant has everything to do with the same players jumping on their soapboxes and scaring the **************** out of each other to the point that they they stop enjoying their perfectly good Boxsters.

I look at it this way. I'm a drag racer. When you drag race, you break ****************. Should I live in a state of perpetual apprehension because I might break something? Should I quit enjoying the sport of drag racing forever because I might twist an axle or bend a clutch fork? My answer is no. I recognize the risk and then enjoy the crap out of myself at the track. If I break the car, sometimes it gets very expensive, but that's the price of playing the game.

I live on the Chesapeake Bay. In 2003, Hurricane Isabel came through and ate my house and nearly everything else I owned. If you live on the water, this can happen. Should I pack up and move to Idaho? For me, the answer is no. I can think of nothing I love more than watching the sun come up over the water, or the sailboat races on Wednesday evenings. If a storm comes through and wipes out the house again, it'll be a huge pain in the ass, but that's the price of living here and I wouldn't trade it for a safer locale.

You shouldn't drive around in your Boxster in a perpetual state of fear just waiting for that oil spot to appear on the garage floor. You should drop the top as much as possible, throw on your coolest shades, crank your tunes and drive. The Boxster has the ability to melt away the stress of the day, or to give you the reason you need to drive to work in the first place. If you only use it as a weekend car, it reminds you of why you work so friggin' hard. If it breaks, fix it. There's a good chance that it won't. Some guys obsess over that fact that the RMS, engine, or whatever may fail and that Porsche is doing nothing to correct it. So might our hearts, lungs, and kidneys. Should we stop living now in case one of those organs screws up? Should we cower under the covers in our darkened bedrooms, furious at the medical community and waiting to die? You can if you want to. Me? I'm going to live. If my heart (or my Boxster) explodes I will be able to say that I enjoyed every minute of the time I had.

Plan like you'll live forever. Live like you'll die tomorrow.

[MNBoxster]

Originally Posted by Grizzly

First and foremost. Silverstreak, I was not picking on you. You asked a completely legitimate question about engine failures. My rant has everything to do with the same players jumping on their soapboxes and scaring the **************** out of each other to the point that they they stop enjoying their perfectly good Boxsters.

I look at it this way. I'm a drag racer. When you drag race, you break ****************. Should I live in a state of perpetual apprehension because I might break something? Should I quit enjoying the sport of drag racing forever because I might twist an axle or bend a clutch fork? My answer is no. I recognize the risk and then enjoy the crap out of myself at the track. If I break the car, sometimes it gets very expensive, but that's the price of playing the game.

I live on the Chesapeake Bay. In 2003, Hurricane Isabel came through and ate my house and nearly everything else I owned. If you live on the water, this can happen. Should I pack up and move to Idaho? For me, the answer is no. I can think of nothing I love more than watching the sun come up over the water, or the sailboat races on Wednesday evenings. If a storm comes through and wipes out the house again, it'll be a huge pain in the ass, but that's the price of living here and I wouldn't trade it for a safer locale.

You shouldn't drive around in your Boxster in a perpetual state of fear just waiting for that oil spot to appear on the garage floor. You should drop the top as much as possible, throw on your coolest shades, crank your tunes and drive. The Boxster has the ability to melt away the stress of the day, or to give you the reason you need to drive to work in the first place. If you only use it as a weekend car, it reminds you of why you work so friggin' hard. If it breaks, fix it. There's a good chance that it won't. Some guys obsess over that fact that the RMS, engine, or whatever may fail and that Porsche is doing nothing to correct it. So might our hearts, lungs, and kidneys. Should we stop living now in case one of those organs screws up? Should we cower under the covers in our darkened bedrooms, furious at the medical community and waiting to die? You can if you want to. Me? I'm going to live. If my heart (or my Boxster) explodes I will be able to say that I enjoyed every minute of the time I had.

Plan like you'll live forever. Live like you'll die tomorrow.

Hi,

I like your philosophy, but that's all it is, philosophy.

The lister posed a legitimate question, as you note. All I did was give a legitimate answer. It may not concern you if the Boxster explodes, if mine did I could easily absorb the loss. Others either cannot, or don't want to, and that's OK too. It's kinda tough having a frank discussion without being frank.

I've owned 39 cars in my life. None of them perfect, some less perfect than others. Some with minor annoyances and some with major ones. IMHO, the Boxster belongs to the latter group regardless of how many times it may make the corners of your mouth curl up, that's all...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

Originally Posted by MNBoxster

Hi,

I like your philosophy, but that's all it is, philosophy.

The lister posed a legitimate question, as you note. All I did was give a legitimate answer. It may not concern you if the Boxster explodes, if mine did I could easily absorb the loss. Others either cannot, or don't want to, and that's OK too. It's kinda tough having a frank discussion without being frank.

I've owned 39 cars in my life. None of them perfect, some less perfect than others. Some with minor annoyances and some with major ones. IMHO, the Boxster belongs to the latter group regardless of how many times it may make the corners of your mouth curl up, that's all...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

But Jim, how can you say this? You have not had any problems with your Boxster. Where's the annoyance?

[MNBoxster]

Originally Posted by bmussatti

But Jim, how can you say this? You have not had any problems with your Boxster. Where's the annoyance?

Hi,

OK Guys, we can Wordsmith all night, but the potential issues with the Boxster are real and well-documented. I don't need to have the RMS drain 9 Qts. of Oil, and create a HazMat cleanup of my Garage floor ($3200 for my Buddy w/ the '04 'S' - PCNA had to pay it), before I'll admit to those potential failures. You can cover your ears and scream LA-LA-LA-LA-LA all you want, but it won't eliminate this very real potential.

Where's the annoyance? The fact that there is a very real (more real than any other car I've owned) possibility that the next turn of the ignition key could trigger disaster. Only a defective ignition switch can assure this doesn't happen (who'd have thought?)...

I would stand more easy were I bmusatti, because I would have the protective warranty blanket to keep me warm, but as a 2nd owner, I don't expect Porsche to raise a finger.

I've owned several Brit cars, and for the record, they don't leak, they just like to mark their territory... There were times in my MGB, or TR3 or Healey, and the like, where I might not have been surprised if the car didn't react at all when I turned the key, but I was reasonably assured that it wouldn't self-destruct either, at least more so than the Boxster.

The car does have it's good points to be sure, and for many these outweigh any of the not so good things. But, others feel differently. I wonder if this may be one reason these cars hold their value so poorly...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

[Brucelee]

I do have two questions for all of you though.... :

Does my Porsche warranty cover these failures?

Yes, a Porshce factory warranty should have you covered.

Are these flaws found in the Cayman as well?

As far as we know, yes they do!

BTW-for the record, I love driving and looking at the Box.

Just wish it were more reliable and less costly to repair.

[Grizzly]

Originally Posted by MNBoxster

Hi,

I've owned several Brit cars, and for the record, they don't leak, they just like to mark their territory...

C'mon now, Jim. If your British car isn't leaking, it's empty.


I wonder if this may be one reason these cars hold their value so poorly...

Now I didn't kill myself researching this but:

The 1998 Lotus Esprit's base price appears to have been $82,625. I just found a couple of examples for sale for $37,000 or thereabout. Its resale value appears to be roughly 45% of MSRP.

The 1998 Boxster appears to have had an MSRP of $40,745. Though KBB says its value is now $20,225, lets assume $18,500, a more realistic selling price for a nice '98. Let's see... that's...about... yup, 45% of MSRP.

I wonder how a more comparable 993 would have held up?

[Boxtaboy]

Originally Posted by Grizzly

Now I didn't kill myself researching this but:

The 1998 Lotus Esprit's base price appears to have been $82,625. I just found a couple of examples for sale for $37,000 or thereabout. Its resale value appears to be roughly 45% of MSRP.

The 1998 Boxster appears to have had an MSRP of $40,745. Though KBB says its value is now $20,225, lets assume $18,500, a more realistic selling price for a nice '98. Let's see... that's...about... yup, 45% of MSRP.

I wonder how a more comparable 993 would have held up?

You know what? While this is an interesting analysis, it really doesn't matter, cause you're not gonna change Minnesota Man's viewpoint of the car, and he's not going to change ours. He's going to continue to post the issue about his friend's 04 engine failure as an example to prove his point, and we're gonna continue to point at Boxsters that have had no issues at all. Different philosophies at the end of the day. I am with you 100% on your viewpoint of this whoe discussion, and personally, I expected to pay a little more to play when I bought the Porsche. Again, if I wanted 100% reliability, I would've bought a Honda or Toyota. I'm not expecting "value" in any sense of the word. I use my car only on weekends for pleasure, as I live in NYC, and I pay over $500 per month just to park my car in a massive underground parking garage. At that rate, I could change a new engine every 2 years from the parking rent costs alone. The point is, if all this stuff scares you to the point of it not making you enjoy the car anymore, then sell it. MN has every reason to move on to something different. Me personally, what I also love about a Porsche as compared to a Lotus or Ferrari is that if you do break down, you can actually find a Porsche dealer within a reasonable distance of wherever you are because there is a very good dealer service network built up here. Not so with a Lotus or Ferrari. To each his own.

YMMV and all that good stuff.

[Grizzly]

Originally Posted by MNBoxster

Hi,

I like your philosophy, but that's all it is, philosophy.

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

Oh, I don't know Jim. You seem to be the guy with the inferior, faulty, underpowered, mediocre automobile that you don't like and really never did. Maybe you just enjoy being miserable. I've owned a lot of cars too...still do. And I've owned some real dissapointments (mostly British). Unlike you however, I didn't relentlessly research their inherent design problems, only to spend countless hours crowing about them to anyone who would listen. Instead, I sold the unreliable, leaking little sputtering bastards to someone else and moved on. If cars are my passion, and I only have so much time here, why waste it?