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-   -   Time Trial Build Thread (aero, widebody, any other nonsense) (http://986forum.com/forums/performance-technical-chat/77421-time-trial-build-thread-aero-widebody-any-other-nonsense.html)

truegearhead 05-24-2020 05:40 AM

On Friday I picked up $40 worth of aluminum and started hammering away. Nothing is attached yet so it looks a little wonky, it'll look much better once its been fastened down to the body lines. So far so good though I think its going to work. Once I get it fastened down I'm going to pick up some used e30 oil coolers (which are long and narrow and stuff them into the flare openings. Hopefully the oiling system can handle the additional volume, I still have some research to do on that one.

:cheers:

http://986forum.com/forums/uploads02...1590326907.jpg
http://986forum.com/forums/uploads02...1590326933.jpg
http://986forum.com/forums/uploads02...1590327571.jpg

Quadcammer 05-24-2020 11:56 AM

Hey man i ended up doing a very similar exhaust design, but im finding it very loud and frankly doesnt sound good in my garage.

Do you have a better pic of yours and how does it sound?

truegearhead 05-25-2020 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quadcammer (Post 617616)
Hey man i ended up doing a very similar exhaust design, but im finding it very loud and frankly doesnt sound good in my garage.

Do you have a better pic of yours and how does it sound?

http://986forum.com/forums/uploads02...1590429247.jpg


Here's a close up of how I attached mine. I just the cat delete pipes and slid the 2" exhaust over them. It sounds great but its too loud for the street, I do have headers and no cats which doesn't help. I'm sure with the right mufflers it would be streatable.

truegearhead 05-25-2020 10:04 AM

While I'm waiting for hardware I decided to play around extending the roof line. I'll just move the plexiglass rear window to the aluminum, this will also allow me to ditch the roof cover which is surprisingly heavy


http://986forum.com/forums/uploads02...1590429498.jpghttp://986forum.com/forums/uploads02...1590429627.jpg

Starter986 05-25-2020 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by truegearhead (Post 617606)
On Friday I picked up $40 worth of aluminum and started hammering away. Nothing is attached yet so it looks a little wonky, it'll look much better once its been fastened down to the body lines. So far so good though I think its going to work. Once I get it fastened down I'm going to pick up some used e30 oil coolers (which are long and narrow and stuff them into the flare openings. Hopefully the oiling system can handle the additional volume, I still have some research to do on that one.

:cheers:

On one of the forums yesterday I read a post about someone asking something similar... extra oil coolers. The poster queried why the oil cooler wasn't mounted in the front of the car. A responder replied that the, IIRC, the oil pressure was insufficient to handle all those lines... insificient pressure. If you find a workaround... please share.

:cheers:

truegearhead 05-25-2020 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Starter986 (Post 617654)
On one of the forums yesterday I read a post about someone asking something similar... extra oil coolers. The poster queried why the oil cooler wasn't mounted in the front of the car. A responder replied that the, IIRC, the oil pressure was insufficient to handle all those lines... insificient pressure. If you find a workaround... please share.

:cheers:

Well damn thanks for letting me know. I guess my only option is turbo charging it so I can fill the flares with intercoolers. Sigh....

Thanks again for the heads up :cheers:

truegearhead 05-29-2020 04:21 AM

The roof is done! don't worry about those fender bolts those are being replaced. The car goes into the wrap shop Monday and if everything goes right it'll be back on the track at VIR next week. I have a LONG way to go with the other side of the car. :cheers:

http://986forum.com/forums/uploads02...1590754730.jpg
http://986forum.com/forums/uploads02...1590754753.jpg
http://986forum.com/forums/uploads02...1590754773.jpg

itsnotanova 05-31-2020 07:21 AM

http://986forum.com/forums/uploads02/hard1590938298.jpg
Looks similar to this top. I think they were made in England. It's the only one I've ever seen in person. Makes you wonder why Porsche didn't design the hardtop with a smoother flow.

truegearhead 06-03-2020 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by itsnotanova (Post 617972)
http://986forum.com/forums/uploads02/hard1590938298.jpg
Looks similar to this top. I think they were made in England. It's the only one I've ever seen in person. Makes you wonder why Porsche didn't design the hardtop with a smoother flow.

I think they wanted to follow the soft top lines and maybe distinguish it from the 911. I agree that those lines are much smoother though


In other news I got it back from the wrap shop, I have the narrow front tires on all four corners on these shots (rain setup) so the wheels don't fill out the flares. The slicks are mounted on 4 rear wheels so they fill out the falres

http://986forum.com/forums/uploads02...1591200261.jpg


http://986forum.com/forums/uploads02...1591200306.jpg

truegearhead 06-08-2020 05:49 PM

I made it back from VIR with good news and bad news. The good news I didn't die... the homemade control arms and various other one off suspension changes didn't break. The bad news is it was slower... by 5 whole seconds. The first heat the car was incredibly loose, its now square (front track is equal to rear track) the front is 7 inches wider than stock and the rear is 4 inchs wider than stock so I expected this to be a big change. I stiffened the front sway bar several times through the day and ended up close to a balanced car. Its still on the narrow 235 series time trial tires so I'm going to wait for wider tires before I make any more adjustments. As it sits its still loose which resulted in a spin at Oak Tree but overall it has far more grip. If I took the widebody off (with its huge fender intakes) I'm sure the car would be faster, I'm loosing a lot of speed down the stretches. I'm now weighing engine swaps, the Audi W12 is an interesting option. Its the same length as the boxster motor and would bolt up to the Boxster S transmission.



Here's a couple shots from the weekend, it was a small social distancing event so the organizer let me and the buddies I run track days with try and recreate the Car and Driver Lightening Lap photo. Super fun weekend, it was great to get out there and bring back a working car.

:cheers:

https://s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/p...05_mmthumb.jpg

https://s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/p...3_mmthumb.jpeg

paulofto 06-09-2020 06:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by truegearhead (Post 618520)
The bad news is it was slower... by 5 whole seconds.]

But it LOOKS faster!

78F350 06-09-2020 09:38 AM

Best looking car in that group shot.
Can you get any sort of analysis of the airflow to see what is helping with grip and what is just creating extra drag? Maybe you could recruit an engineering student to do a CFD model - I'm thinking of the groups that do the $2000 challenge like Georgia Tech or similar.
Engine swaps can be enticing, but most of the cases I've seen, when they are done and all sorted out the cost/benefit is not much different than just going with a higher power Porsche engine. Maybe you should try cutting a deal with some jerk on the forum who keeps pushing his rebuilt engine at a highly inflated price. ;)

I'd love to see your car with the W12 sorted out in it.

truegearhead 06-09-2020 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 78F350 (Post 618554)
Best looking car in that group shot.
Can you get any sort of analysis of the airflow to see what is helping with grip and what is just creating extra drag? Maybe you could recruit an engineering student to do a CFD model - I'm thinking of the groups that do the $2000 challenge like Georgia Tech or similar.
Engine swaps can be enticing, but most of the cases I've seen, when they are done and all sorted out the cost/benefit is not much different than just going with a higher power Porsche engine. Maybe you should try cutting a deal with some jerk on the forum who keeps pushing his rebuilt engine at a highly inflated price. ;)

I'd love to see your car with the W12 sorted out in it.

I've done a few engine swaps and ya, they never go well. The 3.4L 911 motors are starting to get cheap but I'm really looking for more power. If there was a cost effective Porsche solution I'd go for it. That being said I also really like the challenge of something odd like a W12, building the car is half the fun for me.

JayG 06-09-2020 01:38 PM

All the new aero could be having a big impact.
Without wind tunnel or CFD modeling, you really don't know if it is good or bad.
Does look really cool however

Racer Boy 06-09-2020 08:28 PM

At the next track day take the splitter and wing off and see the change in lap times. Also note your top speed compared to the later/previous session with the aero stuff back on.

Do you know what the top speed difference is between before and now?

Just looking at the picture, I'd say you have added a lot of surface drag; the flares and possibly the new radiator duct layout, besides the front splitter and the wing may be killing your straightaway speed enough that the increased downforce (hard to say how much increase) doesn't make up the difference.

Another thing to ponder is the air intake for the engine. It's on the back window, correct? That is in a really low-pressure area, so that may be hurting horsepower, which isn't going to help.

truegearhead 07-02-2020 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racer Boy (Post 618611)
At the next track day take the splitter and wing off and see the change in lap times. Also note your top speed compared to the later/previous session with the aero stuff back on.

Do you know what the top speed difference is between before and now?

Just looking at the picture, I'd say you have added a lot of surface drag; the flares and possibly the new radiator duct layout, besides the front splitter and the wing may be killing your straightaway speed enough that the increased downforce (hard to say how much increase) doesn't make up the difference.

Another thing to ponder is the air intake for the engine. It's on the back window, correct? That is in a really low-pressure area, so that may be hurting horsepower, which isn't going to help.


The flares are the problem, the wing and splitter have been tested on and off, they're worth almost 3 seconds at VIR. I need to have more power, thats the only solution. Especially now that I have these absurd 12" wide rear wheels on the car


http://986forum.com/forums/uploads02...1593713706.jpg
http://986forum.com/forums/uploads02...1593713747.jpg
http://986forum.com/forums/uploads02...1593713778.jpg
:)

steved0x 07-02-2020 12:56 PM

Nice, those are some nice looking wheels, what tires are you going to run on them? What is the widest 17" you can get?

paulofto 07-02-2020 05:45 PM

Are those wheels or beer kegs?

truegearhead 07-03-2020 02:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steved0x (Post 619966)
Nice, those are some nice looking wheels, what tires are you going to run on them? What is the widest 17" you can get?

Thanks, I’m putting on 315/35/17 Hoosiers today, and 245s in the front. Same setup I have on my 911, I’ll eventually need a wider front tire

JayG 07-03-2020 01:56 PM

Its a very slippery slope

truegearhead 07-03-2020 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JayG (Post 620005)
Its a very slippery slope

It is, and you never get to the bottom. For example I bought an Audi V8 for it today...

truegearhead 07-07-2020 06:04 PM

https://s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/p...08_mmthumb.jpg

Out with the old. Anyone need a 2.7? The Audi V8 arrives Friday (I think), 8 weeks or so until tools down and baby arrives.

steved0x 07-08-2020 06:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by truegearhead (Post 619982)
Thanks, I’m putting on 315/35/17 Hoosiers today, and 245s in the front. Same setup I have on my 911, I’ll eventually need a wider front tire

That's a monster tire! I bet that is going to feel good!

truegearhead 09-28-2020 02:36 PM

Well I've also had some enormous scope creep. I decided that lifting the car 2 feet off the ground to pull the engine from below is absurd and I don't have enough faith that I can service the Audi V8 with the factory engine cover in place so I did some cutting... I removed he entire engine surround and fire wall, rear trunk and moved all the electronics to the cabin I'll make an aluminum firewall that goes all the way to the roof and will either install a plexi window or install a hidefinition rear camera that uses the a rear view mirror as a screen (oddly the cheaper option). With the rear trunk removed I can now just wheel a new motor in instead of lifting the car up and pulling it from underneath (especially valuable with the tall V8 compared to the flat 6)




https://s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/p...7_mmthumb.jpeg

you can see in the above photo I'll need to add some rear chassis reinforcement, I'm going wait for the engine to go in and then tie something into the cage to strengthen it
https://s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/p...e_mmthumb.jpeg

I also added a third radiator that’ll sit under the hood scoop (feed from the front of the car and cut out the original rear quarter panels (that now sit under the widebody) to make room for...intercoolers:cheers:

https://s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/p...2_mmthumb.jpeg
https://s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/p...5_mmthumb.jpeg

Quadcammer 09-28-2020 06:47 PM

You got some nuts man...no one can argue that

truegearhead 10-04-2020 03:33 AM

Parts for the turbo build have started flowing and I’ve started the mock up. Here’s one of the two side intercooler radiators (the water cooling rad).

https://s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/p...1_mmthumb.jpeg

Air will enter here
https://s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/p...0_mmthumb.jpeg

And exit here (the gap between the outer fender and tail light
https://s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/p...2_mmthumb.jpeg

I’m a little bummed about the weight, they’re probably 25lbs a piece. I’ll have close to 100lbs in my intercooler system including the water. All in all I’m probably adding 200-250lbs to the car in engine, turbos and cooling, so far I’ve found about 40lbs in steel that I was able to remove. Hopefully I can find some more. I still need to remove the HVAC system under the dash, anyone know what that weighs?

Hasbro 10-04-2020 10:30 AM

That's going to be vicious. Do you think it will handle more like a 911? Really enjoying your journey.

truegearhead 10-04-2020 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hasbro (Post 625295)
That's going to be vicious. Do you think it will handle more like a 911? Really enjoying your journey.

Hopefully not;) fortunately the engine is in the middle so adding weight to the middle of the car shouldn’t change things much, we’ll see. I’m sure the additional power will change just about everything though, in the past throttle control rarely came into play, I was either off throttle or on full throttle. The car never had enough power to need a light foot. Hopefully the 315 series Hoosier will help, the open diff on the other hand...

Gilles 10-04-2020 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by truegearhead (Post 625297)
the open diff on the other hand...

Perhaps it's time for an OS Giken LSD..?

truegearhead 10-05-2020 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gilles (Post 625319)
Perhaps it's time for an OS Giken LSD..?

I need to upgrade to a 6 speed first but that’s a great option. Not that $1,500 is cheap but I’m surprised it’s not more expensive.

JayG 10-05-2020 02:26 PM

Frankenboxster!!

itsnotanova 10-05-2020 05:57 PM

Where did you get the radiator for the frunk? I need to upgrade mine to something like that one

WizardSmokey 10-05-2020 11:39 PM

This is really sweet. Badass looking car, I'm taking notes.

Some random quations: What's the offset on your rear wheels? Any clearance issues? And I dig your frunk mount radiator. That was the origional plan on mine, but we ended up going a different route. I'm also very much considering s̶t̶e̶a̶l̶i̶n̶g̶ borrowing your widebody design.


One of these days, we need to meet up at VIR.

truegearhead 10-06-2020 01:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by itsnotanova (Post 625345)
Where did you get the radiator for the frunk? I need to upgrade mine to something like that one

Here’s a link to the rad, you’ll need to cut a huge hole on the front of the trunk and bumper and make a hood vent (I made one out of aluminum but you could buy something off amazon I’m sure). Plumbing this thing up is no proving to be very difficult. The Boxster has two coolant hoses going forward and two back so you need to make some complex manifolds to make it work. Still a work in progress.

OzCoolingParts Pro 3 Row Core All Aluminum Radiator + 2 x 12" Fan w/Shroud Kit for 1963-1968 64 65 66 67 Chevy Bel-Air/Impala/Biscayne/Caprice, Many Chevy GM Cars https://www.amazon.com/dp/B081YTZFD2/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_WLdFFbJTZEMCJ

https://s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/p...14_mmthumb.jpg

truegearhead 10-06-2020 01:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WizardSmokey (Post 625354)
This is really sweet. Badass looking car, I'm taking notes.

Some random quations: What's the offset on your rear wheels? Any clearance issues? And I dig your frunk mount radiator. That was the origional plan on mine, but we ended up going a different route. I'm also very much considering s̶t̶e̶a̶l̶i̶n̶g̶ borrowing your widebody design.


One of these days, we need to meet up at VIR.

Thanks! The rear wheels are 12”s wide with the hub right in the middle of the wheel. I don’t have fitment issues but the fenders are of course not factory. The front is 8”s wider which I accomplished by extending the front suspension (I didn’t change the offset of the wheels). The rear fenders were actually really easy to make I used .125” think aluminum (super super thin). It can’t even support itself unless it’s bolted down, but once’s secured its rock solid.

Van914 10-06-2020 04:48 AM

truegearhead,
you might like this too:
https://rennlist.com/forums/porsche-cayman-and-cayman-s-all-generations/1211154-cup-suspension-on-a-cayman.html

Robert986 10-06-2020 12:46 PM

Do you really need the fans for the middle radiator? I take it you still got the fans for the outer rads, then the speed will likely give enough flow for the middle one. It´s obviously not a road car that will be sitting in slow traffic, so I´d suggest you get rid of that extra weight!

itsnotanova 10-06-2020 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by truegearhead (Post 625357)
Here’s a link to the rad, you’ll need to cut a huge hole on the front of the trunk and bumper and make a hood vent (I made one out of aluminum but you could buy something off amazon I’m sure). Plumbing this thing up is no proving to be very difficult. The Boxster has two coolant hoses going forward and two back so you need to make some complex manifolds to make it work. Still a work in progress.

OzCoolingParts Pro 3 Row Core All Aluminum Radiator + 2 x 12" Fan w/Shroud Kit for 1963-1968 64 65 66 67 Chevy Bel-Air/Impala/Biscayne/Caprice, Many Chevy GM Cars https://www.amazon.com/dp/B081YTZFD2/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_WLdFFbJTZEMCJ]

Awesome! Thanks a bunch! I'm using a toyota corolla radiator with an electric water pump right now but the radiator isn't up to the demand I'm producing with my rally boxster. I have to say I think your boxster build is the most intriguing build ever. My hat is off to you. Keep it up, it's very entertaining.

SoloPierre 10-06-2020 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by truegearhead (Post 625275)
I still need to remove the HVAC system under the dash, anyone know what that weighs?

25lbs for the dash evap and heater core

truegearhead 10-08-2020 03:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert986 (Post 625372)
Do you really need the fans for the middle radiator? I take it you still got the fans for the outer rads, then the speed will likely give enough flow for the middle one. It´s obviously not a road car that will be sitting in slow traffic, so I´d suggest you get rid of that extra weight!

Good point..I’ve removed the fans from the outer rads for this reason. I probably don’t need any fans and could just place a fan in front of the rad in the paddock once I come in if I want the car to run and cool down.


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