99' Base 5 speed Cranks / No start / No codes / New CPS
 

Ok the title gives you the basic run down

Duremetric has no codes in any modules

Engine cranks

Immobilizer has no water ingress or corrosion internally
Central locking works normally
30 amp fuse is good (all fuses pulled and inspected)

Fuel pump does not primer with key on or cranking
Fuel pump will run with relay bypassed (still no start)

New Genuine Bosch CPS just installed (no flutter on tach while cranking)

I'm stumped, I think I've read a few dozen threads about no starts but none like mine.

Any suggestions?

If there's no flutter on the tach when cranking the CPS isn't working. So its either a dud or the wiring is bad or some problem higher up in the circuit.

Where did you buy the CPS? If its Amazon or eBay its probably a check Chinese fake.

Cleaned the connection and scoped it, now I get tach wiggle but still no fuel pump prime on key on or cranking.

I put a jumper on the relay and the pump runs but still no start

squirt a shot of starting fluid into the intake. Crank it to see if it fires, just to confirm spark vs fuel problem. Also did you check the relays in the rear trunk? DME relay and relay that controls fuel injectors and ignition coils.

Just swapped all the trunk relays from my running car, no change

I'll grab some starting fluid in the morning

Do you smell fuel after cranking the engine? Check fuel pressure at the rail and maybe pull the fuel line to make sure that you're getting flow.

I do smell fuel after cranking

One time I had the same symptoms (with raw fuel smell), and turned out to be a loose harness connector, right behind the driver (thank you Brad Roberts for the tip..)

After removing the inspection cover it's on the lower side right against the firewall on the driver side, good luck!

I read your thread, my primary O2 is plugged in. Thank you for the heads up.

I think she's headed to the dealership this week, it's too hot and I'm out of ideas.

As a data point, I bought a "genuine Bosch" CPS off of EBay. Worked for 3 days then failed in the middle of traffic(always fun!) Now I have crank, fuel pump tests good but does not kick in, no tach movement, no start. Have another CPS on the way.

silber

EDIT: Looked closer and the Tach needle IS moving during cranking, so my problem is not the CPS being bad :(

Yeah lots of knock off units in eBay and Amazon

I have tach movement now but still no pump prime

Can you provide a picture of this connector, or more instructions on how to find it? Took both engine access covers off but could not find any connectors on the firewall.

Cranked my car some more and I am smelling unburned fuel, beginning to suspect this connector.

EDIT: Tach is moving when I crank, so not the CPS.

Silber

Found this on pelican parts site on a no-start-no-code thread:

To follow up...it was a cracked fuel line from the fuel pump, inside the fuel tank. I replaced the complete fuel pump

So, you can hear the pump, and have some pressure, some fuel but not enough.

I am going to buy a spark plug test light and if I have good spark maybe try the fuel pump.

My problem is solved, hopefully yours is as easy as mine was.

Had my car at the dealer Friday and it was at a half tank and when it came out of the dealer was at a full tank. Got to thinking, dealers don’t normally fill cars with gas so maybe the gauge failed and I am out of gas rather than having a half a tank. Sure enough, was bone dry, I put in two gallons and it started right up.

Silber

Hmm, never thought about the gauge might be off ?

I'll toss a few gallons in

If you smell fuel after cranking it sounds like you have a no spark issue.
But I always squirt a shoot of starting fluid into the intake just to confirm it.
If I don't even get a cough or sputter out of it then I have a spark problem.
If I get a sputter or cough out of it then I have a fueling issue.

Weird thing was I smelled fuel after cranking even though I was on fumes don’t know how that happened.

So I have fuel and if I jump the relay I have fuel pressure

At this point I think it's headed to the dealer, I'm out of ideas

blue62 is right.
Another way you can test spark is by pulling a plug out (make sure your fuel pump is disconnected) and grounding it out while cranking. Then you'll have a clear visual cue.

I went through something similar. It ended up being a bad idle control valve. The unit on the side of the throttle body. I played with the parts shotgun and replaced just about anything fuel spark related chasing a start, but no crank issue. (Cps, maf, plugs, fuel pump, fuel reg, 02 sens, etc). Finally just happened to hear a slight buzzing from the the throttle body when checking fuel pressure for the 10th time, gave the ICV a couple taps, buzzing stopped, car cranked and ran like normal. Like nothing had been wrong. I put a bosch unit in, no issues since. I had never heard or read of one failing, so I looked over it multiple times. Just throwing that out there.

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Fiddlebog,
Not a slam on you but that is a bad idea on a multi coil direct to sparkplug system.
use a spark tester made for the purpose. They are around 15 bucks I think. that way you eliminate any chance of mucking up the electrical system;)

Funny you should say that. Same exact thing happened to me. I actually took the whole unit apart and used some QD cleaner on it.
But when I was having the issue, I would still get some sputtering, and sometimes it would start but run really rough. Had a few other weird symptoms before that as well. All cleared up with a good clean though!

Chi
Sounds like you have a no spark problem. Get a spark tester to confirm it, They are around 15 bucks I think.

Never heard that before. Can you explain why or provide a link to an explanation? Just curious. I've never actually used that trick on a multi coil system, but I guess it's good I haven't.

Fiddle,
I read about not doing it that way and why not years ago. Don't remember where I read it. or what possible issues could arise. But most likely possibly harmful to the computer system. So I have used a spark tester every since. Cheap insurance.
I am sure you could find reference to it on the web;)

Chi-town
I just went back and reread this entire thread.

What I would do is stick to the simplest things first method.
So the first thing I would want to know without a doubt is what the overall problem is.
Is it a fuel delivery problem? or a spark delivery problem?. Or both.?

I would test the fuel and ignition systems using starting fluid and a spark tester.
Easy to do, reliable and inexpensive.

If I chase the fuel system when I have an ignition issue I am chasing my tail.
If I chase the ignition system when I have a fuel issue I am chasing my tail.
If I have an issue that affects both systems I don't know what I am chasing;)

So if I was going to DIY this issue.
I would want to know With out a doubt,is it a fuel issue? an ignition issue ?or both???? (I am beginning to think you have both)
Once I know the answer then I have a solid foundation to my diagnosis and proper direction to procced.

Hope this helps

Yeah I need to dedicate some solid diag time to it this weekend.

I tossed a fresh charged battery in it tonight and gave it a good crank, smelled fuel when I held the throttle open.

I'll check for spark in the morning, I've been avoiding it due to the oil leaks on the spark plugs tubes.

Air intake system is clear.

And thanks to everyone for their input and encouragement, it is much appreciated!

The throttle body is definitely acting normally, yes?

Sorry, but this is simply not true.
Just think about it...grounding the plug is doing the exact same thing as happens in the engine block.
Maybe you read it back in the 90’s when people were still afraid of computer controlled cars?

I agree, though: get a tester. It’s much easier.

Mine started with sputtering. Then just finally quit starting all together after a couple weeks of chasing my tail. What was throwing me off in my situation was the fuel pressure at the rail with car not running but key on was zero. New pump, regulator, cps, and still zero at the rail. Thankfully, I stumbled on the icv making noise. I swapped in a new one and had the normal 3.8 bar at the rail. I didn't think the ICV was THAT involved in fuel control. Its a simple 2 wire plug, so not sure what the ecu 'sees' from it. So to double check, I swapped the old ICV in and sure enough zero pressure at the rail again. [emoji2369]



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PW
That was my thought as well. And yes I read about it years ago in the 90's I think your comment about fear of computer controlled cars is right on. I still think a 20 dollar spark tester is cheap insurance and as you said less hassle;)
I believe the fear in the past was in the event of not having a solid ground when laying the plug on the block that somehow all that voltage could possibly jump to a nearby sensor or component thereby doing damage to the computer.

Ok, got up early before the heat started and did some basic diag.

Fuel pressure while cranking 34-36 psi

Showed spark on rear cylinder LH side

Pulled the plug, wet with fuel

Tried a squirt of starting fluid no change. (open or closed throttle)

No codes in any Modules

Cranks smooth, no noise

Does anyone have a video of an M96 cranking with a broken timing chain?
I'm thinking there would be a code stored if it broke even if it's only cranking?

I have a spare 2.7 but I was hoping to avoid the engine swap.

You say it cranks smooth no noise.
you could do a compression check on a few or all cylinders to verify correct valve action. If you have a broken timing chain I would think a piston would have hit a valve by now.
You mentioned oil leaking at the spark plug tubes. How bad? is there any chance that the oil is grounding your plugs out so your not getting spark in the cylinders?

Yeah I was thinking it would have smacked a valve and stopped by now also.

No oil on the plugs just flowing out the valve cover side.

I've been thinking about it all day and when I did the fuel pressure it smelled like gas but not as strong as usual.

The car had an aftermarket fuel cap on it and no gas door when I got it.

I'm wondering if the fuel is contaminated? I'll take a sample in the morning before it gets hot and see if it is.

[QUOTE=Chi-Town;602211]Yeah I was thinking it would have smacked a valve and stopped by now also.

No oil on the plugs just flowing out the valve cover side.

I've been thinking about it all day and when I did the fuel pressure it smelled like gas but not as strong as usual.

The car had an aftermarket fuel cap on it and no gas door when I got it.

I'm wondering if the fuel is contaminated? I'll take a sample in the morning before it gets hot and see if it is.[/QUOTE

If your getting spark at the plug you should have got at lease a sputter or cough using the starting fluid.. so my thoughts are
1. plugs are to wet and fouled with possible contaminated fuel that your not get spark at the electroid
2.no compression.
3.hell of a restriction in the intake or exhaust so not drawing in air.

You can check #3 by using a vacuum gauge hooked up at the intake while cranking.
needle should show 3-5 inches? of vacuum at cranking.

you may want to pull all the plugs clean and dry them.

Starting to sound like a carbureted engine with a choke stuck closed LOL

I'm thinking there's enough water in it to kill the spark.

It's got vacuum, I can see flow past the MAF

I figure it's lot likely to lose compression on all 6 at the same time?

if you kill the fuel pump and just spray starter fluid in, you should get ignition. If not, it's definitely not a fuel issue.
Is there any way the ignition timing could be off? I worked on an old carb-engine a while back, and the magnet for the hall sensor had gotten out of alignment causing the ignition to be out of phase. Don't know enough about the CPS in these engines to make any conclusions, though.

Chi-town
Did you buy this car as a nonrunner or???????

I did buy it not running

Good idea on killing the pump, I'll try that in the morning

Due to the fact that you bought it non running I would do a compression test.
If it comes in ok that eliminates a lot of tail chasing.
If you have compression and your getting good clean fuel and spark into the cylinders you should get it to at least cough or sputter even if spark and valve time are a little off.

If you disable the fuel pump and use the starting fluid as above and have compression and spark you should get some sign of ignition.