Which clutch to buy LUK or Sachs?
 

What is your opinion?

And when your state your opinion, please detail on what experience the opinion is based. How many hundreds of each have you installed and thus provided the basis of your opinion.

Really? No wonder no one responded to this. Sure would have been helpful to have someone provide their experience instead of this completely unhelpful post. Mikefocke, never respond to one of my posts again, I don't care if I'm dying and your response is the only thing that can save me, don't respond. I don't care if you realize that I've been dead for three days and you are the only one who knows, even then, don't respond. I'm looking for someone who has something positive or helpful to say, and you are not that person. Folks like you make this less of a forum. Just leave. Too harsh? I think not.

Mikefocke has contributed more to this and other forums than you or I will ever know. So lighten up and relax.

As far as Sachs or Luk, here is my opinion. Both are fine. I've only experienced 2 clutches in my 2003 S; the one in there now and the one that was in there before this one. Find either at a good price and guess what, you will never know one from the other once its installed.

I think Mike is just having a bad day. :)

I went with Sachs because of price. $298 shipped with pressure plate, throw out bearing, pilot bearing, grease and alignment tool. That was 1.5 years ago. No issues and feels nice.

Thanks for the helpful responses, I appreciate you sharing your knowledge.

I went with the Sachs before I read your posts because I'm chicken about using anything but OEM on a repair this invasive, I'd hate to do it twice.

I'm not sure why Mikefocke decided to take an adversarial approach to a simple question. He contributed nothing by shutting down the conversation and received the reply anyone acting that way deserves, regardless of their posting history.

When I reply to a post my goal is always to be helpful. Hopefully my reply to Mike will be helpful in letting him know just because your behind a keyboard and you cannot see the person your replying to, you should remain polite and civil.

My reply followed a few hours of reading postings on this and other car forums by people whose experience was either none or limited to a sample of one and thus their opinions were more to justify the wisdom of their choice than to throw some evidence based facts out for our enlightenment. How do you compare and contrast without the experience of both items? How do you value someone's opinion without knowing what experiences/facts/readings they are based on? I was inviting someone with experience with both products to post.

Not to mention the evident lack of the use of the forum's search function.

So yes my frustration showed.

I actually did use the search function before posting. Your assumption that I did not was presumptive and incorrect.

Anyone pointing to the search function instead simply answering a question or moving on without comment is simply being a jerk to someone who is asking for help.

Your posts in this string certainly fit that description.

Reading both of your posts, the second is a weak attempt to justify your bad behavior in the first.

When you find yourself in a hole, stop digging.

Now I have to figure out how to use the "block" function.

In that case, you should add me to your blocked list.

Mike provided a rather level headed comment about getting an opinion from someone with more than one data point, which is a suggestion well worth considering. Mike has been around for along time, and comments from years of experience, including running one of the best historical data website for 986/987 cars. He is in regular contact with a wide variety of people with extensive technical experience with these cars, so he is repository of a lot of information.

As for the comment about using the search function, far too many people ask the same question that has been asked innumerable times previously, rather than taking a few min of time to look around first. As a moderator on another Porsche technical website, I see this happen every day, when someone asks a question that has already been answered in detail more than a dozen times previously, and even has a fully detailed DIY in our tutorial section of the forum. My, and many other posters standard response is “Search is your friend”. As such, I saw Mike’s comment as a valid suggestion rather than as the criticism you seem to have taken.

Done.

And it is aptly named "ignore".

I don't care how much information you have, or how high an opinion of yourself you have. Treating people poorly is disrespectful and should not be tolerated, and "search is your friend" is insulting and arrogant.

If you're unable add value to a string stay silent.

Jamesp I was tempted to reply to your post several times since it sat there so long seemingly ignored. I was reluctant to post due to thinking along the same thought process as Mike in his post, which at least bumped your thread 24 hrs after you posted. I have no better info than what post #5 recommends other than to say it is foolish to block info from top original posters.

I gotta say if there are two people I would NEVER ignore regarding Boxsters it is JFP and mikefocke. Distancing yourself from 2 of the most knowledgeable people who have ever contributed to this and other Porsche forums is cutting off your nose to spite your face.

That said everyone is entitled to their own choices in life. Even bad ones.

Anyway, the Sachs clutch will work out fine and now that it is in there you will largely forget about it. Drive that car.

James, don’t be too hasty in blocking people out because you don’t like their tone. Both Mike and JFP are valuable resources on this forum. I find that this forum is actually quite civil compared to some others. Just let it roll off.
Cheers, James :cool:

Here is my observation, like it or not!

I didnt think Mikes post was rude, did not think the how many hundreds you installed added anything. But he did point out the need for extra data point such as in particle waves post.

The authour is being a little too sensative, to that comment.

JFP I get your po8nt about search, but its better to do a quick search add the relavent link and nicely suggest other searches will produce more info. I always do a search find lots of info manytimes its not relavent. As someone requesting help getting the search is your friend annoys me, i would prefer no reply. As a collective group I beleive we are here to support each other as enthusiasts.

That said on my part I appreciate all reesponses I have received and enjoyed discussing various topics. But you cant be overly sensative, we are all human and have various cultural backgrounds.

[QUOTE=Cunningr;575250]Here is my observation, like it or not!

I didnt think Mikes post was rude, did not think the how many hundreds you installed added anything. But he did point out the need for extra data point such as in particle waves post.

The authour is being a little too sensative, to that comment.

JFP I get your po8nt about search, but its better to do a quick search add the relavent link and nicely suggest other searches will produce more info. I always do a search find lots of info manytimes its not relavent. As someone requesting help getting the search is your friend annoys me, i would prefer no reply. As a collective group I beleive we are here to support each other as enthusiasts.

New people posting weekly with questions that have been answered multiple times clogs up the forum with unnessesary threads making it harder to search for what you want. Also limits the quality of your search results.

At least I offered an opinion!

Here is another post Jamesp made:

2003 S 144k miles daily driver, clutch slipping at higher loads. Looks like it's time for a new clutch and flywheel. Anyone have words of wisdom on which clutch and flywheel arrangement to choose? How about any "as long as you have it apart" advice?

A earlier quote I made:

Check out the German made LUK clutch and DM Flywheel. I found the LUK had a 9" disc where the Sach's only had a 8 1/2" disc. That assembly was for the Wife's 05 TDI Beetle. I know that Sach's clutches are in the Boxsters. I might also mention the clutch fingers are a little longer on the LUK's which makes the pedal somewhat softer. The Sach's are shorter which makes for a little stiffer pedal. I plan on using the LUK if I ever need to change. The DMF and Clutch is less than $350 from a company in NC.

[QUOTE=BYprodriver;575255] Yes i get that, but there are ways to help, they already made the post so giving them a nudge by doing a search for them and posting a link to thread helps more than saying try search engine.

My point is posting use the search is not helping and will add to the clogging. Additionally i give people the benefit of a doubt they tried a search. If you dont want to help then dont post!

I dont know alot but i have personnaly executed searches to try and help resolve a persons issue.

Lew,

Thank you for your earlier reply. I received sparse replies on the first post I made, and yours was very thoughtful and helpful. I am very conservative in making repairs, so while I should have responded to your reply thanking you, the thought of using a different type of clutch (though it does seem technically superior) had me running away screaming like a little girl. I was not going to reply to this post again as I didn't want it bumped to the top yet again, but you deserve a shout out as you are doing the right thing providing the knowledge you have. Thanks again.

As mentioned the LUK will give you a softer pedal than the Sach's. You know how I knew that, after I installed the DMF and the LUK clutch, the wife said the pedal seems softer. How bout that, my Wife could tell right off. :D

I like the stock clutch....
 

....That's what I installed with a new flywheel and I love it.

Street car, no track days.

I'm guessing that you are probably a pretty nice person, because most people are. But you sure come across as someone that isn't in your posts in this thread.

It sounds like you were having a really bad week when you opened this thread, I hope things are going better for you now.

Wow. You really need to lighten up a bit there, fella. Kick back. Take a pill. There was nothing in the least “adversarial” about mikefocke’s response, which was simply a suggestion that those who respond to your open-ended question provide some basis upon which their opinions are given. Opinions without hands-on experience are typically pretty much useless. And his response in no way amounted to an action “shutting down the conversation.” (Sometimes people just don't feel like responding. Or those with useful information just happen not to be perusing the forum for a few days.) Furthermore, there was nothing included in his post which fell short of being “polite and civil.” In your juvenile responses you’ve managed to disparage and malign, in the most impolite and uncivil manner, two of the more knowledgeable sources of information on this forum (the second being JFP). You, my friend, are the only poster in this thread who’s been “disrespectful.”

Get your act together. Play by the not-that-strenuous set of rules. Do a search. If it comes up empty, say so. Maybe your choice of key words for searching falls short of what's ideal—we’re all guilty of that on occasion. Once you’ve made that attempt, there’s lots of people on this forum who are more than willing to be helpful. Or, if you wish, go with your original inclination: be the “jerk”. If that’s the case, it will be you (not those others) who loses out.

So.... sheepishly.... with my tail between my legs....
is this what I looked like when I first joined, and got my panties all bunched-up right out of the chute?

Hahahaha.
Sorry guys. It's easier to see when it's somebody else. ;-)



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Frodo,

I did a search. You clearly have a short attention span poor reading skills, or perhaps even a limited intellect. My bet's on the last, and you may want to wipe your nose.

Maytag,

Why are you here? Where is your engine rebuild or SAI string or any other helpful advice to others? I've never read a smaller troll.

Jake was right.

Huh....

So.... my comment was clearly designed to build a bridge.... to calm the tempest... to say "I've been here too.... " because I have. I spurned JFP on almost my first day here, just a couple of months ago. But he's a big enough fella that he seems to have forgiven me my first-day offenses. (Thanks JFP! ;-) )

That you choose to take offense to my post (like many other's) suggests you're really struggling here... I feel bad for ya. Really. I know a few other people who tend to alienate people faster than they can meet them, like you're doing here. It's a lonely existence.

My gut says, though, that you are probably not like this in person. You're probably a very mild mannered guy, who avoids confrontation at all costs, except with your mother / landlord.

Hang in there though, pal. Puberty ends eventually, and things get better as you grow into those hormones.

We're all rooting for ya!

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Here's my take:

Dogs are the worst. Really.
I mean, they're primarily followers, not leaders. They're smelly, especially when wet. They take human sized poos. They bark loudly, which is so annoying. They're always trying to jump up on and/or lick your guests. Their breath stinks. Most slobber. And, worst of all, they eat cat poo.

Let that be the final word on it.
I'm out...:cool:

Well, Sir, I stand corrected, you did mention doing a search. You might have mentioned that in your first post, where it might have done some good, where it might have coaxed people towards being helpful in your cause instead of alienating probably close to everyone exposed to your annoying hostility. Does not play well with others, apparently. I’d bet your parents read those words a lot not so many years ago.

My reading skills are just fine, thank you, but possibly you are right: I do have a short attention span when it comes to reading ill-conceived drivel spewed by unmannered individuals such as yourself. I pay attention when the source is worthy of listening to. You failed miserably in that regard. It doesn’t take a lot of “intellect” to grasp that.

Ha! A well thought-out argument!

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wow, amazing how you berate other posts for lacking respect and then you go and do the same thing.

Perhaps you're the one to be ignored:rolleyes:

For whatever it's worth; having done dozens of clutches in European cars (none yet in this, my first porsche), I'd suggest that either brand will serve just fine / equally in at least 99% of possible driving situations. Both are used by various manufacturers as an OEM supplier. Both have quality standards that can be depended upon.

If you TRACK your car.... then this answer isn't as useful, because that last 1% of driving situations MIGHT illuminate a difference between the two.

So DO you? Track you car, I mean.

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There are enough angry 8 year olds in my life...

Please add me to your ignore list.

I have added you to mine.

I bought and installed the Sachs clutch/pressure plate and the LUK Dual Mass Flywheel last year. The clutch performs perfectly with no problems.