Supercharger - Imagine Auto

[MNBoxster]

Originally Posted by Sammy

This is an honest question so there is no sarcasm meant...

What options are out there that offer a drop top with the same handling abilities as a Boxster? Keep in mind that I'm a firm believer that the best handling cars are mid-engine.

Hi,

I think it is a valid question. But, the Boxster is not the best handling car in the world. I've owned several which will outperform it, including my current Lotus Esprit (with approx the same weight, HP, length and track - coincidence?), a lotus Europa and an Elan SE. The Noble M400, the Cayman S, and new Elise will also out-handle it, but of course of all these, only the Elan is offered as a convertible.

The Boxster may be the best handling production drop top in the world, but the Lotus Elan, a limited production drop top (1962-1973), is generally considered by enthusiasts and automotive engineers to be the best handling car of all time. This is the model most shoot for, in fact, the Miata is the result of Mazda buying 2 '71 Elans in the mid-80's and reverse engineering them. I used to own one (a '72SE) and it'll run circles around the Boxster. BTW, most do not realize that the Elan is a Front mid-engine car in that the engine lies behind the front axle. If you ever have the opportunity to drive one of these, be sure not to pass it up.

But, back to your question. There is no perfect car, or any car that will top out in the Speed and Handling categories at the same time. If you think you can slap on a bunch of ponies and reach this ultimate goal, you'll find that you fall short or upset the delicate balance of the car. The fatsest car is not often the first to complete a lap, it's how far you can stay off the brakes into the corner and how soon you can get back on the power which will determine who can lap the fastest. Finesse over power will win almost every time...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

[Racer-x]

Originally Posted by MNBoxster

Hi,

I think it is a valid question. But, the Boxster is not the best handling car in the world.

True.

But then again... for ALMOST all Boxster owners, the handling will do just fine...

And as far as s/c'ing the engine... think objectively and honestly with yourself for a moment -- you're gonna be leanin' on it most of the time, aren't you? I personally don't have the "ankle-control" to keep my foot off the loud pedal when I've got something that exciting available (yes, an extra 50-60 ponies would make me feel like a 10 year old boy again).

The Boxter's appeal isn't it's horsepower, it's the finesse. Open up the intake and exhaust, blow a few bucks through a 'Tweeks' mag for some nice looking touches... You've got a classy, calculated and collected, calm car (alliteration!)

You really want a rocketship? If you've got Motronic 7.8+, go to FVD and tell them you want to spend $25,000 on a 3.8L Carrera S motor swap. Sell your current motor for a few bucks, if you're lucky, get the total-out-the-door price of the swap down to about $20 large, and go blow the doors off of everything that looks at you wrong.

I'm looking at no more than $25 invested in my current boxster... add another $20 to that figure and we've got a $45,000, gorgeous boxster with 355bhp. That's
1) less than a new boxster, 2) a sleeper, 3) an understressed motor, 4) an unbelievable sound (kind of like accelerating while your head is in the engine bay of a 997), and 5).... you've still got room for small improvements to the motor (or, if you are really ballsy a s/c...which would seem a safer choice on a 911 motor).

Once you NEED more from your boxster, go this route. Please... it'll probably lower the cost for when I'm ready for it!

[pecivil]

The fatsest car is not often the first to complete a lap, it's how far you can stay off the brakes into the corner and how soon you can get back on the power which will determine who can lap the fastest. Finesse over power will win almost every time

kind of true.....it depends on how long the straights are on the track layout. If there are significant straights, the larger hp cars, although outbraked in the turns, can make it up (and then some) on the straights. In club races where boxsters and 911 are on the track at the same time, the boxsters are always right with the 911 (or ahead!) through the turns, but they always lose in the straights cause they dont have the oomph.

Racer X what you said is exactly the conclusion I came to. My 00 box is in the shop right now getting its 3.4 installed. I am going with a custom header/cats/muffler setup done by Steve Timmons of Instant G. He developed a custom setup especially for this conversion and it gets the 3.4 egas up to about 320hp at the fly with software. I am also adding the AASCO Lt Wt flywheel, which will take a nice chunk out of the drivetrain losses. I am debating about doing the GIAC software as well. I probably will but it costs another grand!

For anybody interested in the costs here is what I am getting
lightly used 3.4 from a wreck $7000
Custom header/cats/muffler $3000
GT-3 center radiator kit $500
AASCO Lt Wt Fly $800
New Boxster front fascia (to get the opening for the center radiator) $500.
New clutch kit $400
Labor about $3000.

Grand Total around 16k. Paid 25k for the car 2 years ago (30k miles) that cost 50 grand brand new. So for 41k total investment I will have a great handling Porsche roadster with equal hp to a 996 and less weight, that cost 10k less than the car cost brand new, and WAY less than a new 987, with more hp than a 987.

I am not worried about selling, because I love my Boxster so much I would never sell it anyway. I will drive it until it falls to pieces.

I dont like the styling of the 987 anyway.

[MNBoxster]

Originally Posted by pecivil

kind of true.....it depends on how long the straights are on the track layout. If there are significant straights, the larger hp cars, although outbraked in the turns, can make it up (and then some) on the straights. In club races where boxsters and 911 are on the track at the same time, the boxsters are always right with the 911 (or ahead!) through the turns, but they always lose in the straights cause they dont have the oomph.

Racer X what you said is exactly the conclusion I came to. My 00 box is in the shop right now getting its 3.4 installed. I am going with a custom header/cats/muffler setup done by Steve Timmons of Instant G. He developed a custom setup especially for this conversion and it gets the 3.4 egas up to about 320hp at the fly with software. I am also adding the AASCO Lt Wt flywheel, which will take a nice chunk out of the drivetrain losses. I am debating about doing the GIAC software as well. I probably will but it costs another grand!

For anybody interested in the costs here is what I am getting
lightly used 3.4 from a wreck $7000
Custom header/cats/muffler $3000
GT-3 center radiator kit $500
AASCO Lt Wt Fly $800
New Boxster front fascia (to get the opening for the center radiator) $500.
New clutch kit $400
Labor about $3000.

Grand Total around 16k. Paid 25k for the car 2 years ago (30k miles) that cost 50 grand brand new. So for 41k total investment I will have a great handling Porsche roadster with equal hp to a 996 and less weight, that cost 10k less than the car cost brand new, and WAY less than a new 987, with more hp than a 987.

I am not worried about selling, because I love my Boxster so much I would never sell it anyway. I will drive it until it falls to pieces.

I dont like the styling of the 987 anyway.

Hi,

In theory, and if you're driving a high-speed oval such as Indy or Daytona, you're right. But, if you're driving these tracks, you don't want a Boxster anyway.

But, for every road course I've personally driven (and that includes Watkins Glen, Road America, Road Atlanta, Sears Point, Limerock Park, Road Atlanta, Infineon, Blackhawk Farms), my statement is true - the car which can brake the latest and power-on the soonest is usually the quickest lap time.

Going fast down the straight is all about the car, going fast through the twisties is more about the driver...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

[oliverg]

I love my Boxster. It truly is an amazing vehicle.

That said, I love the idea of making my Boxster different - faster, better handling - better sound etc. I guess it may be the result of playing too many video games and getting caught up in the collection of "power ups"

If I want to go really fast, I know I can jump in my Subaru WRX STi and cane it until the wheels smoke. But it doesn't feel the same as my Boxster. The Boxster is more refined. Sophisticated.

So at this juncture, having accepted the fact that I want to drive my Boxster, I now sign up to this wonderful forum too fantasize and drool - too implement theories and test unproven designs and guess what - to all those that ask "why spend XXXk when you can drive an X car for less" - I'm having so much fun right now, that's why!

There is something amazing about throwing a supercharger in your car and getting in and "bum dyno" testing it. Sure the Boxster isn't the fastest car in the world, but its mine - I like to drive it and I like to modify it to make it different.

If we didn't enjoy this "hobby", this forum wouldn't exist would it?

[pecivil]

Hey Jim!
Sounds like you have quite a lot of track experience and I don't, so I would not presume to disagree with you. Your observations actually remind me of the original BMW M3, a 4 cyl. with only 192hp, but definitely a momentum type of race car, that won everything against higher hp cars. The shop that I take my car to and is doing the engine swap does race a boxster in the spec racing series, and they are very good drivers who also race a GT-3 and a 993 race car. They tell me that in their boxster, they have no trouble keeping up with and beating 911's, including GT-3's, through the turns, but can't keep up on the straights. Which makes sense, a lighter, mid engined car should be faster through the turns than a heavy rear engined car with equal driver abilities.

[Sammy]

I still believe that the laws of physics support mid-engine vehicles. I don't see anyway that you can obtain a better balance and shift of weight (weight distribution sitting still doesn't tell the whole story) than having the large engine mass between the axles. Ferarri has done it for years and has been the most prominent "production" benchmark. Even the latest Ford GT has a "mid-engine" set up and it's kickin' some booty at least in magazine tests.

I'm sure the older Elan has some great handling characteristics but was still referred to as a mid-engine vehicle.

I will agree that there have been some great handling vehicles out there but with all things being equal I just don't see how a mid-engine vehicle wouldn't come out on top? Ferarri, Acura, Saleen, etc are all part of this group and I believe they have both power and handling (too bad only Ferarri has the drop top but then again, I can't afford it anyway). The Boxster just happens to be the most affordable (maybe the MR2 should be thrown in here but the visual appeal isn't there for me). I wonder how much you can tune a MR2?

We all know that in taking corners you can slow down faster than you can speed up which is why the extra HP and torque would be nice in pulling out of turns. I don't think looking for extra power is an unreasonable request even if it is pricey.

Of course, I'm not talking about ovals and drag strips because at that point I would agree, buy a different car. I am talking about racing on road courses/autocrosses/twisties/curvy/tracks.

BTW - MNBoxster, I mean all of this in the best of manner for the sake of debate. I look forward to and appreciate your comments and opinions.

Best Regards,
Sammy