IMS Fix
 

Found a IMS kit from European Parts Solutions at 449.00 with oil feed and cylindrical bearings sounds to good to be true. Fairly new on market. I have 2000 boxster S 3.2 with dual row IMS, their info states its bearing replaces both dual and single row bearings. It seem there would have to be spacers or a different end cap for the 2 types of bearings. Have e-mailed the Co. with this question no response yet. Anyone know how this could be true. Thanks:dance:

If you had bothered to Search ,you would have found your answers
Does anyone have information on the EPS roller bearing IMS Solution? - Rennlist Discussion Forums
BTW, the RND kit is better .Please SEARCH for details

I don't like to waste money, but critical engine parts that require lots of labor to replace are not where I look to save money. My first IMS replacement was the Pelican Parts kit. I was happy with it, but for the next car I chose the LN bearing for PROVEN reliability and peace of mind. The many discussions on the forum may dissuade you from choosing the type of oil feed used on the EPS and question the long term reliability.
Looking for a cheap replacement that many have been happy with? Get the Pelican Parts IMS Bearing kit.
Want to experiment with your own solution? Get the Pelican Parts kit (for the accessories) and find a bearing that you like better.
Want proven reliability with a guarantee? Get the LN Engineering kit.

Search ----> Read ----> Decide. All of it has been discussed at length.

There is SSSoooo much discussion on this subject that it is going to make your head hurt
AND
your probably not going to get much actual direction towards what solution to use.
There are several options and recommendations including - not doing anything.
About the only money saving option that could be thought of for a fix like this is building your own tools. And even that is highly debated.

Good luck and welcome

Tool diy? There are some Threads on this.
- Or rent/borrow a pilot bearing puller like Burner did in his inconclusive ,vague video ? After he broke the center bolt.
Really- if a pilot bearing puller worked adequately, why would Jake/LN gone to the trouble of developing a tool kit? And why would so many of us have bought these expensive special tools for a one-time(hopefully !!) job ?

The why?

Well it's a story of fear and making money out of it.

Not saying there are a lot of problems with this engines, but i really wouldn't put 3K in a car worth 9K or maybe 15K just for not have that fear and than have the engine failing by another part.

So, don't buy cheap stuff just because it seems cheap. Buy stuff that works. And if you don't know how things work, go to a professional or go into to topic and learn everything about it.

And please don't use Youtube videos as a proper install guide. In general they lack of different details.

Just my 2 cents
Markus

Somewhere on this forum is the story of the member who had his IMSB replaced by a Porsche dealer service department and they screwed it up. Luckily for him the dealer made good on it and fixed it properly. My point is if it is beyond your ability and comfort zone just have a professional do it with a good quality bearing like the LN bearing or a good oil fed upgrade like the IMS solution.

What is this IMS everyone is talking about?


A little early for April Fool's day pranks? And if that upsets you..... The first guy started it with his question.

Blofish, Check out Burners Cars videos on this subject. Very informative/entertaining, he covers it all on YouTube.

I’ve opted for the AMS 700 solution it’s 13k installed
 

it's sounds expensive, but installed, lifetime guarantee(yours), and service checks. Downside, ownership is non-transferrable. I know there are grumpy bears in the woods but who cares.


http://986forum.com/forums/uploads02...1484356284.jpg

I had a feeling that I would regret looking that up... Nice to know the option is out there should the need arise. Or not arise, as the case may be.

Looks like the AMS 700 is a dual row solution. Too bad I can't unsee that!

IMS Fix DIY
 

Hi, I replaced my IMS bearing as a precaution, it was still in excellent condition after 167,000 KM, both seals were intact and in place, longlife grease long gone having been replaced with plenty of engine oil (splash from crankcase)
The bearing was NSK double row ball race W5204 20x47x23.8 wide, this bearing is very hard to find (Porsche sell it with the shaft, mega bucks ) so I used similar spec NSK Double row ballrace 5204 20x47x20.6 with a 3mm washer spacer, both seals removed.
The tool to remove it is easily made using steel exaust tubing 50mm dia x100 long
split it with trusty angle grinder, open it out a few mm (spread ) to an easy sliding fit through the crankcase hole and internal dia greater than the bearing 47 O/D the rest of the puller is a sleeve joiner ,internal thread to suit bearing bolt, the joiner can be welded to a 12mm or larger threaded draw bolt about 100mm long , a 6mm + thick end plate and 12mm hex nut for the draw bolt, total cost about $10 from hardware store

Correct bearing ? even Amazon sell it.
Removing BOTH (??) seals is not recommended.You will fill the IMS tube with oil= bad !
Remove only the outer seal to allow oil into the bearing but not into the tube.This has been discussed many,many times here.
Better to buy a kit because you need the stronger center bolt, new MEC bolts etc.If you source all these items separately it would cost more than a complete kit. Pelican sell the RND kit which is a fair benchmark to compare all others with.

You are thinking of doing something to limit your risk.

Why would you not then go with the most used product, the one with instructions which have been improved multiple times (in contrast to some others where some of us have had to bludgeon the author to correct even the most egregious error), and one with a tool kit that has again been improved given experience and which can be sold after use?

Good luck in your choice.

IMS Fix DIY
 

Thanks for the Amazon source, could not find one at the time.
AS i mentioned the old bearing was in great shape and the shaft had about 1/2 cup of engine oil in it even with both seals in place.The car runs great .
Regarding the tool I thought it may be of interest for those who like to tinker DIY

Nice :cool:
Some people will act like replacing this tiny bearing is rocket science and that the replacement must cost $1000 or more. Many DIYers have proven that as incorrect, so pay them no mind. :)

This board is full of those brainwashed by the IMSB-fear-mongerer-for-profit bunch. :D

Some more opinions from across the pond.

911uk.com - Porsche Forum, Specialist, Insurance, Car For Sale, Finance, Parts & Service : View topic - IMS upgrade

IMSB no seals =no good ?
 

Tweedboru;525943]
Thanks for the Amazon source, could not find one at the time.
You are welcome.
" the (IMS)shaft had about 1/2 cup of engine oil in it even with both seals in place."
But that was when you still had a bearing with both seals. Now you have no seals so it will be at least 1/3 full of oil.
"The car runs great ." Glad to read that. But it does not prove that an IMSB with no seals is a good choice. No IMSB deep-groove kits supply bearings with no seals. Most have one seal.
Yours will be an interesting experiment. One difficulty is purging the old oil from the IMS when you drain the engine oil. Park it draining with the front high for a few days?
Hope it works out well for you

Fastest way to purge is to run the car on a slight uphill or at the track at a higher RPM. Centrifugal forces would force the oil out faster then letting it sit.

Why not do both :D.

Tweedboru, I love your solution. I would have kept it sealed with grease. In the end, all of the "lubrification in the bearing" is mostly used as corrosion protection and cooling. Splash will work fine. Bearings deteriorate when they pit so when people stop driving their car.

Maybe Porsche intended people to let their car sit a long time? All their anti-friction bearings are sealed one even those in the gear box where lubrication is plenty.

Tool kits are frequently available on eBay (Search " LN IMS tool kit"). Just now 4 of them. Be sure of the one you get has all the parts and is for the bearing you intend to use. After use, sell it on.

Really ?
How will splash help a bearing that is sealed ?The cumulative wisdom of the IMSB world is the outer seal was the cause of much of he problem. Ditto the mainshaft and pinion bearing in the G86 that you allude to.
I ask because of the Hippocratic oath we should take when giving advice. "First,do no harm". If you have enough evidence to refute the cummulative wisdom of the experts, we're all ears & eyeballs.

Mike makes a great suggestion because these LN kits are rare in Europe. A canny Scot could actually make a profit on the import,use and resale of a complete kit ?
Yes, he could probably buy a k/o kit from Alibaba but it's resale value would be questionable.
The links to one rather non-tech U.K. Porsche site made dismal reading. Lots of snippy commentary,little technical content. Did not seem to be a group that did their own mechanical work or read beyond their own group. Piston Heads is more tech oriented?

I stopped reading when the suspect engine didn't have much on the magnetic drain plug before doing the IMS, which would imply the sump was not dropped and a proper pre qualification completed. If I had a nickel for every blown engine that was initially blamed on the IMS and later confirmed to have been from another fault, I could retire early............

I was stating"either or" no seal with splash or seal with grease. These bearings are called "anti-friction bearing" and yes the cumulative wisdom is just fear mongering and people are making money on this. The real issue is people not using their cars causing their bearing to pit from corrosion. Without pitting the bearing would not wear in the cars useful life.
Out of the machinery's Handbook or bible to most Machinist and Mechanical Engineers.


Picture of pitting, from google search.
http://986forum.com/forums/uploads02...1486573531.jpg

Here is some reference, maybe I should charge for doing some research on the subject? Btw I have owned my "porsche" for 1 year now so new to this fear, but my hobbies and daily job allow me to analyse it a little further.

Well its either one or the other....grease lube or splash oil lube. Sealed grease lube bearings with some oil contamination is not a normal lubrication method. The problem is compounded when you are using contaminated oil due to infrequent oil changes, short driving trips, etc.

Which does nothing to explain why cars that are daily drivers, and driven hard, were some of the first to show the problem.

Worse is an engine when they replace the IMSB ,discover other problems in that process, slap it together w/o addressing any other problem and flip the car.
I bought one !
The only reason I commented earlier was to alert noobs not to follow the 'advice' given when it contradicts expert(not me) experience.

One question: how old is this book?

And one idea that seems to be supressed from the market by - i don't know who.

http://986forum.com/forums/uploads02...1486591267.jpg

Regards, Markus

I don't believe that is correct. Everything I read on the subject its people who didn't drive the cars hard that had the problem occur to them.

The book is from 2004. So those who made the boxster had access to it:P.


Oh I love that plug idea. Cheapest solution out there. Only thing is to put a pin hole to allow pressures to balance preventing the plug to pop out if the situation allowing it arise.

https://documents.mrosupply.com/product_documents/10/100KSF/lubrication.pdf

A more recent document I found on the World Wide Web.

It is many years old and Casper seem to have disappeared.
The Solution seems to be the only IMSB with a plug. I suspect it may be patented - otherwise the roller bearing kit guys would have included it. I thought of doing a homebrew version but could not find a "freeze plug" the correct size. Imagine pressing one that was slightly too large int place...... With a 52041RS bearing, the problem is solved?or 62041RS

100+ years old, with many various Editions/Owners obviously, but essentially the same concepts bud. Fascinating literature

Edit: sorry, to be precise it is 125 years old (https://www.amazon.com/Machinerys-Handbook-Collectors-First-Replica/dp/0831133708)

The first cars to suffer IMS failures were daily drivers still under warranty.

Well we just pulled a dual row IMS out of a 2001 986, one owner car with just under 11,000 miles on it, or about 700 miles a year. The bearing (balls, races, and cages) was absolutely pristine and without any signs of pitting or other wear, after being basically parked for 16 years. And this is only one of dozens we have seen this way.

Sorry, but there is a problem with your theory............

IMS failure is much more complicated that just having one simple cause.

It is totally unnecessary, as well as counter productive, to put a hole in shaft plug such as the IMS Solution uses; the other end (oil pump side) vents the tube.

Please don't do that and leave us!!
Your knowledge and help is incredible :cheers:

The only solution is to THINK! ;)

Regards, Markus

Ha Markus, Markus, Markus... I just wonder just how many thinking hours have already been consumed over this particular problem?? :eek:

Especially when it happens to the you.
You would have spent many hours thinking:

"why me Lord" or

"why the hell did I buy this damned thing in the first place" or

"how the hell am I going to afford to pay for this" or

"my roller is worth HOW MUCH?" or

"I wish I had attended Raby's engine assembly class".

Obviously, but the longer time goes by the more one failure method start showing. The first ones could have been related to production and being under designed(single vs dual row). Now its lubrication and corrosion. You say you guys removed a pristine bearing, did you test the bearing under load? What if it had pitting that couldn't be seen with the naked eye? Or the owner changed the oil every 6 months regardless of mileage. You are right about causes, but ownership's have a lot to do with the state of the car.


Isn't the pump side sealed? That's why there is a proposed solution to drill a little hole to allow oil to sneak past pushing everything towards the Aft IMS bearing?

JFP, I know you have a lot of knowledge and may be making a living maintaining these cars. I am just seeing this ownership as a nice car with nice dynamics that is overrun by fear, because it's a "premium vehicle" with premium cost. Finding cheap effective solution is my job and I like sharing my mechanical knowledge.

I don't mind having a problem with a theory, given the chance and money anything can become a fact. At the moment, that isn't a possibility.

As you might know: every second counts. ;)

Besides that: maybe more than you might think. And maybe, but just maybe: i'm not a guy that tries to patent every stupid idea so it's not worth to think any longer. Also i'm not a guy that tries to fear people and make money out of it. Nice business model by the way. But not my kind of style.

And best if all: i've seen a bunch of disassembled M96 and M97 engines in person.

Regards, Markus

I have had many vehicles that have a chance that the motor will fail in, all these had inherent issues from factory. Some were cam chain issues, some were valve train issues, some were oiling issues, some were crank bearing issues - They all had things that were just a bit wonky with them.
If you go onto the sites for those engines there is much less fear mongering. All these vehicles would take about $6-12k to replace to motor.

I suspect because these are Porsche's that this happens - or people think they have a fix and want to help others (or fill their pockets)

I have read a lot of the UK/EUR forums and the main statement is these are not the best built motor but if you take the outer seal off the IMS bearing your failure rate plummets.

Besides doing that one should really look at doing a tear down and full rebuild with a stronger bearing system.

I do not know what the answer is but I do know I have a car with a motor reliability issue.

I drive it - I love it - some days I worry about it

I am getting to the point where I will no longer be reading anything about IMS bearing - It is starting to become........ irritating.

Anyone look at increasing the oil pump output? Wonder if that would help? How would one increase the oil pump output?

Oh God - now I am in on it.

Lord save us all.