Diagnosed dead at 76K miles
 

My 2000 Boxster recently was diagnosed "dead", or must be replaced. Needless to say I'm seeking second opinions.

When I left home, it left a strange smell in the garage. Down the road some 40 miles the oil light flickered on the dash, and a squeel came from the back. I stopped driving the car within 200 yards of the oil light.

My first thought was the oil pump or some belt was causing the squeel. My mechanic told me that pre '02 Boxsters are known to have a "defect" in the engine that the cams go bad... I'm awaiting the full report tomorrow.

I'm being told that engine should be replaced... can't this be rebuilt?
Anyone have/know of such a experience?

I was quoted $9k for the new 2.7L, and $3k for installation. I'm looking for options (1) byte the bullet (2) rebuild if possible (3) sell the car (4) ?

$3k for a straight 2.7L to another same design 2.7L is a little high. I would think $1.5k-2k max. Just try to wait with patience for the diagnosis. Keep us informed.

I think your problem was the time warp you drove through that caused you to drive the car for 200 years with the oil light on.

"I'm being told that engine should be replaced... can't this be rebuilt?
Anyone have/know of such a experience?"

Porsche does rebuild them. That's what you (probably) will get if you buy a replacement engine from a dealer.
What they don't do is sell engine rebuild parts to third party engine rebuilders, nor to car owners for that matter.

I have heard some discussion that this may be changing in the future, but for the moment at least, if you need a "new" engine, you gotta get it from Porsche.

Actually, Porsche does NOT rebuild engines. They ship new engines but they re-use a few external parts, such as shrouding etc.

Thus they cannot claim it is a NEW engine as they do have some reused parts on the externals.

The internals are all new.

At least according to both parts and service at my local dealer.

They warranty the "rebuilt engines" for 12/12 I believe.

I particularly love the mechanic comment. I wish I had a dollar for every supposed known defect that causes the engine failure. It's the cam. No it's the intermediate shaft. No wait it's the cylinder sleeves. Oh, here's your problem - you're not supposed to drive over 40 miles at a time....

I wouldn't expect much from the "full diagnosis". To get that, you'd have to pay for them to dig into the engine and you probably don't want to add that expense to your potential engine replacement.

Out of curiosity, do you have an oil spot in your garage under where the Boxster sits? Please check and let us know. Might have been an RMS failure....

Please keep us posted on your tragedy....

Rich, so you're saying that all those bad engines that go back from the dealers are fed into the aluminum recycling furnace, regardless of what was wrong with them? I'm not sure I believe that.
It would make more sense that if the engine was rebuildable, they would rebuild it and sell it as a rebuilt unit. Maybe not Porsche themselves, but an authorized crew of Elves somewhere in the Black Forest.

Here's the write-up
 

Since the original posting the shop did a cooliant pressure check by letting the car sit overnight and check for cooliant leak in the exhaust. It was there the next morning. I've attached the writeup.

Inaddition, I've been in contact with several "porsche" mechanics... one stated that it is true about engine rebuilds being primarily a Porsche Only Job and that's the way Porsche likes it.

I have no signals of an oil leak in the garage or loss of oil history. I'm leaning towards a blown gasket or cracked heads. I'm not up on the compression tolerance, but there is a swing in #3 and #4... on diff heads.

That is what I was told by the SM at the local dealer. They do not rebuild the engines.

Given the time it takes to tear down an engine and rebuild it, it may be close to break even on this vs. a new engine that comes off a line.

Maybe?

Agreed. Unless there is something very obvious, like a piston out the block, mostly they are just guessing until it goes back and gets torn down!

If it does get torn down.

That's exactly what I was told when my engine went. Worse, it could cost even more than a new engine since they have to actually find the damn problem which costs money. So, you could save thousands getting the existing rebuilt, or it could cost you thousands more than a new engine. Hence, most just go with the new engine. Also hence (double hence?), so little real info on the true engine failure causes.

I met some Porsche Authorized Elves once, nice little fellas. All named Hans. Strange.

What to do?
 

Given that I'll probably need a new/used motor and be spending $8-14K on that...

(1) That won't happen
(2) What is a 2000 Boxster worth with a bad motor?
(3) Is right to pawn it off on an un-suspecting car dealer?

Go to the KBB and check out the private party value. Subtract 10K mininum.

You already know the answer to #3. It is not RIGHT to try to pawn it off on ANYONE.

Suck it up, the game of musical chairs has a point where the music stops.

Sadly, it stopped when you had the car.

Good luck.


:eek:

This rebuilt 986/996 engine business gets stranger the more I look into it.
After poking around on the internet for a while I did find a couple of outfits that claim to rebuild 986 and 996 engines. One of them is here in the US, and another is an outfit in the UK that appears to specialize in hi-tech coatings.
After thinking about it for a while, it is obvious that rebuilding one of these engines is not like taking a boring bar to my MGB and then putting in some .020 oversize pistons. Everything is made of unobtanium alloy and manufactured with a microscopically thin coat of nikasil or some such to make it wear better. It is entirely possible that doing a whole lot to the guts of the engine is not worth the trouble, and a new unit is the cheaper and better way to go in the long run.
You win, Rich, I think I'm a believer.
I just hope to god I never have to find out directly.

Picking up the BOX-ster
 

I'm taking the car to another mechanic tommorrow for a second opinion... but from other posts (on other sites), it doesn't look good.

So many stories of 15K, 30K, and 60K engines going belly up. Luckily for those folks they we're under warrantee. I'm surprised that Porsche hasn't been flogged by a class action suite.

I'll keep you posted on the second look, and perhaps you'll see a happy ending.

"I just hope to god I never have to find out directly"

Yes, gone are the days when you just went down to Pepp Boys and ordered a $1200 rebuilt small block chevy.

Well, you can still do that for your older classic, but .......

Too bad this hobby can get so expensive.

:)

just a question here: i know that the oil cooler in the boxster is an oil to water type. has anyone ever seen a failure of the oil cooler that caused water to appear in the oil supply?

GhengisEEK: did the car lose power before you shut it down? have you drained the oil to look for signs of metal shavings?

if you DO have a blown motor, you can pick up a used 2.7L for around $4000 - $5000 if you look around enough. the labor quote those guys gave you is obscene. it only takes about a day to swap motors in the box; you should be able to find someone who will do the install for under 2K. if it's a head gasket, the labor is a pain in the a$$ but i believe it can be repaired without removing the motor (it requires a good bit of knowledge and some special tools, so don't take it to joe blow).

This is worrysome to hear... I have a MY00 2.7 with +/-73K Miles. Engine is running strong. Should I consider selling the car as the engine is most likely to fail? Anybody here with a high milleage original engine?

Rebuilding a boxster engine or 996 engine is not rocket science if you are very familiar with 911 engine rebuilding. We are one of about 4-5 companies in the US that have the ability to rebuild a 996 or boxster engine (outside of porsche themselves). A big part of this is due to the special tools that are required to rebuild one of the engines. They do not use the same tools as a traditional 911, and we spent a little over $5k on tools just to be able to rebuild the engines. Porsche dealers as far as I know do not rebuild the engines in house, they go back to Porsche for recycling.

With that being said, you will spend less just buying an boxster engine from porsche than it would cost to rebuild.

Doc, you sound like just the guy to clear up a couple of things (for me, anyway) on "rebuilt" Box motors.
What, exactly, would you say consitutes a "rebuild" of a Boxster engine?
On the air cooled 911s each cylinder was separate from the case, so they could be, and were, replaced as a set (along with the pistons) if wear or damage made the old ones unuseable.
I assume this is no longer the situation with the 986, since the cylinders are bored in the block, not unlike most other engines. Can a shop actually install new pistons in an engine block , or are the cylinders and pistons matched at the factory, such that it is not practical?

Patience is a virtue...
 

I'm completely confused by my first mechanic's diagnosis, the second opinion will definately be worth it. I picked the car and dropped it off at the new shop (who has rebuilt 911's and 986's).

From my inspection today
(1) no indicator lights are lit, originally my oil light was flickering
(2) no oil is mixed in with the cooliant
(3) cooliant level and oil levels are fine
(4) the car is driveable, but there is a faint clicking noise

However, with lower than normal compression in #3 (145psi) and #4 (152psi) that the rest (165psi)... I maybe suspecting something wrong.

I'm also suspecting the water pump, at the breakdown there was a squeel. I beleive this may have been the water pump becoming out of round.

It sits now til Monday, as there are a few porsches ahead of mine. I'm currenlty out $200 from the 50 mile tow and shop diagnostics.

If you do end up needing to replace the engine, consider a 3.2 from an S or a 3.4 unit from 996 instead. At least that way, it's an upgrade.

One of the things that has puzzled me about a "performance" car such as the Boxster is the lack of an oil pressure (O/P) gauge. That being said, has any of the "mechanics" checked the O/P? There are lots of things that will squeal (alternator, A/C compressor, water pump, etc) not to mention the belt. "Ticking" could be an O/P related problem and/or something internal. Remove the belt that drives the above components - does the squeal go away? Does the ticking go away? If it does, you can concentrate your search on one of them. Assuming it does not... do you have good O/P? Can you get the car on a lift? If so, use a long-handled shaft (i.e., screwdriver, etc.), place one end tight against your ear and probe the engine w/ the other - you can hear most everything going on inside. This should get you to an area close to the source of the ticking. Do this on top and from below.

Re a replacement engine (worst case senario), I would search for a salvage yard piece. My guess is that would save you thousands. These cars are not brain surgery so let's not get all "anal" about them - they are, in the end, an internal combustion engined automobile. Although Porsche has done a relatively poor job of designing/fixing the RMS problem, other than that, it seems to me they should be capable of doing daily service for 100K miles+ without anything but regular maintenance. What else would anyone expect out of a $50K car??.... I'll look forward to your report. :)

24 hours from Pickup
 

We'll I'm picking up the car tomorrow... all that is left is refiling the AC.

My NEW mechanic diagnosed the problem to a failed water pump, leaking cooliant reservoir, and failed AC pump.

The squeeling sound I heard came from the AC pump, the water pump had also failed so it was replaced. I'll post the final results tomorrow.

Needless to say this is far from a new motor...