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Old 03-07-2006, 09:34 PM   #1
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boxster exhaust too quiet?

So my friend drove my 987 the other day and actually stalled it three times, exclaiming, "its so quiet." Now, I have not stalled my little jalopy, but will attest that compared to the 986 S's, Cayman S and 911's I've driven, my 987 is pretty quiet.

I think I choked not having the sport exhaust installed at the dealer at the time of purchase and unfortunately, can't spring for a whole new exhaust right now (although I'd quickly swap out the tips for something S-like). But, anyone know a little trick that can pulled on the stock exhaust to get a bit more bark out it?
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Old 03-08-2006, 12:45 AM   #2
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Haha...the whole "its too quiet" was used when my dad stalled my car several times when he first drove it. Can you desnorkel a 987? I personally love the quiet approach of German exhuast compared to those tin cans on rice rockets and those American cars that all sound the same.
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Old 03-08-2006, 05:07 AM   #3
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I agree, look into modifying the intake if possible (desnorkle or switch to high flow). It would probably be more noticable being right behind you anyway. Should make a nice growl for you.
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Old 03-08-2006, 05:10 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by Porschekid
I agree, look into modifying the intake if possible (desnorkle or switch to high flow). It would probably be more noticable being right behind you anyway. Should make a nice growl for you.


Yeah, this might help turn on your Check Engine Light too!
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Old 03-08-2006, 05:12 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by mach schnell

I think I choked not having the sport exhaust installed at the dealer at the time of purchase
I am not aware of a Porsche Sport Exhaust option for the 987. Are you sure about this?
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Old 03-08-2006, 05:54 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by bmussatti
Yeah, this might help turn on your Check Engine Light too!
De-Snorkling wouldn't effect the Check Engine Light, but adding a cone filter might. Just wanted to clarify that De-Snorkling is ok to do.
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Old 03-08-2006, 05:55 AM   #7
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I haven't seen any posts on a 987 intake or a CEL problem... I know some of the 986's did have that problem.
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Old 03-08-2006, 06:55 AM   #8
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Too quiet? That's an easy fix.

Just get under it with a drill and a 1/4 inch bit and drill you some holes in your muffler. About a dozen will do real fine.

Then she'll make some noise and you'll know the engine is runnin'.
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Old 03-08-2006, 07:45 AM   #9
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I prefer the 1/2" bit it really gives the rear bumper that black smoked look!
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Old 03-08-2006, 08:53 AM   #10
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The only individual that I've read about who desnorkeled his 987 (an S)subsequently resnorkeled when his mpg was dramatically reduced. As 987 owners running 91 in CA will attest, range is not the Boxster's strong suit...not sure I'd personally reduce it further to get more exhaust noise.

I'd agree with bmussatti...from what I know, there is no sport exhaust yet available...sport tips yes, but I don't think that will improve the noise.
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Old 03-08-2006, 09:10 AM   #11
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Hi,

I seriously doubt that CEL's or lower MPG was caused by desnorkelling. It's only function is to reduce Intake Noise to comply with European Noise Abatement Ordinances.

There's a lot of Urban Myth surrounding this innocuous ABS Tube.

It does not allow Cooler Air to enter the Engine, the difference isn't significant enough to alter the Engine performance.

It does not allow more air to enter the Intake because the Throttle Body controls this, so the DME does not demand more Fuel consumption.

It cannot trigger a CEL because nothing is affected by it's presence or absence except Sound Waves. Removing it may jostle a component or two (especially something as sensitive as a Hot Film MAF) causing them to trigger a CEL, but that's a function of one's removal technique rather than the absence of the Snorkle itself.

All reports to the contrary are TOTALLY Anecdotal, and people are seeing Cause & Effect where there simply is none...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99
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Old 03-08-2006, 09:36 AM   #12
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MN,

You may be right in your dismissal of reports on the negative impacts of desnorkeling as urban myth and anecdotal, but generally speaking I'd value the input of someone who actually has a 987 and desnorkeled versus the theorizing of a 986 owner.

The owner I'm referencing is from PPBB. His comments are below and the whole thread can be found by searching their archives with "987" and "snorkel" using the "AND" search-qualifier.


Yup, I Re-Snorked my 987 S... Here's the tale,

Last night after I left work, I drove to Greenwich CT. to play Power Ball. With the jackpot at 340 million, I figured it could be worth the drive of 40-50 minutes.

At 9:30pm, I hit the Sport button, set PASM to "Normal," turned on the V-1 and away I went. With no traffic to speak of, a "brisk" drive and a short time later, I'm on Arch Street and the Lottery store I go to has run out of tickets.

Bummed but Determined, I locate another place a few blocks away and they have a line of over 75 people @ 10:30pm and the last ticket they can sell is at 11:00pm...and I'm going to buy several hundred dollars worth of tickets, so I'll never get served in time. They tell me they can start selling tickets at 4:30am, so I tell them I'll be back and they insure me they have enough tickets on hand to take care of me in the morning.

When I get back in the car, the low-fuel warning comes on. I cycle through the OBC and it shows that for this trip, all highway except for 3-4 blocks, my average MPG was 10.6!

10.6, that's way less than the Pepper loaner I drove last week. I guess I hadn't ever really paid attention to my MPG before, just my MPH

Anyway, I fill the tank and reset the OBC for the trip home...MPG is even less on the return trip, 10.3 MPG!

So, I decide this is the perfect time for an experiment.

I took a nap, awoke at 3:30am and Re-Snorked. I then reset the OBC and drove back to CT. over the exact same route in the Sport Mode w/ PASM on "Normal." My OBC reading... 20.8 MPG!

This has got to be a mistake! I get my Lottery tickets, reset the OBC and drive the exact same route back home...20.9 MPG!

I admit it, De-Snorking the 987 S had a negative result. Although the sound was incredible, to cut my gas mileage in half is not worth the audible pleasure I derived from being Snorkless.

The sound of the Re-Snorked Boxster is definately different, although I'm still running without the intake restrictor plate I'm not sure if this makes much of a difference in the sound.

I didn't have OBC on my 986, so I never measured the MPG on her after I De-Snorked and K&N'd. I did compare my gas consumption to that of other Boxsters when we were on drives, but I was always in the same range of mileage as other, Snorked Boxsters. Would someone with a De-Snorked 986 w/ OBC share their mileage results?


Subsequent post:[/

The intake of the 987 is like the one on the 986 SE, very closed and shaped. I think that I was actually allowing less air to get into the engine based on the recessed position of the air box opening where the Snorkel tube attached.

If the engine was getting that much less air, it would use more fuel to get the job done (I have no engineering degree and I'm a lawyer so take it easy on my scientific analysis )

Anyway, the instantaneous increase in the MPG is staggering to me. Although the test conditions were not perfect, I did keep many things the same;

The outside temps on both the De-Snorked and Re-Snorked run were within approximately 10 degrees of each other, cooler on the Re-Snorked run,

The trip took about the same amount of time, my top speed on both trips was about the same and I did not, knowingly, change my driving habits for the experimental run,

I listened to Heather Headly on both trips, I love her music and just and just got the CD,

I did not eat or drink between the runs,

I had no passenger on either trip,

I the De-Snorked trip up was taken with less than 1/2 tank of gas, while
the De-Snorked trip home was with a full tank, which might explain the slight
variation in the MPG, 10.6 - 10.3, on the De-Snorked runs,

I also add that the Re-Snorked trip up started with the needle just under
the "F" and upon arriving home, I still had more than 3/4 of a tank,

Top-up on both trips, no ac, no fog lights, and seat heaters used at any point.

It seems too dramatic to just be coincidence to me.
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Old 03-08-2006, 10:10 AM   #13
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Of course you'll get worse MPG because you'll be listening to the engine hahaha

I know he says he didn't change his driving habits, but he also said it sounds great meaning he's hitting the gas! Too each his own......if someone wants more noise typically they could careless about MPG. I hope nobody bought a boxster for it's great MPG.
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Old 03-08-2006, 10:18 AM   #14
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Usually less air doesn't mean more fuel to compensate. Less air means less fuel. Most computers have a set a/f ratio and when it starts to get less air it won't run rich to over-compensate... it will simply add less fuel and result in a loss of power.
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Old 03-08-2006, 10:21 AM   #15
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[QUOTE=SD987]MN,

You may be right in your dismissal of reports on the negative impacts of desnorkeling as urban myth and anecdotal, but generally speaking I'd value the input of someone who actually has a 987 and desnorkeled versus the theorizing of a 986 owner.

The owner I'm referencing is from PPBB. His comments are below and the whole thread can be found by searching their archives with "987" and "snorkel" using the "AND" search-qualifier.


Hi,

First off, not too appreciative of the slight that because I don't own a 987 somehow my knowledge of the Car, and it's workings, is less accurate, but whatever...

Second, I read those posts on the other Board and dismissed them the first time. The Lister's experiment is not controlled in ANY way. Reversing a Trip is not the same Trip - You go Up the Mountain and get X MPG, now you descend taking the same road, same speed - MPG improves - Valid..??

He goes on to speculate that he's allowing less Air into the Engine. Not at all true because the Engine DRAWS in the Air it needs, there is no RAM effect necessary or else how do you rev the Engine in a stationary position? But, even if he were correct, how does that consume more Gas as the MAF sensor would detect less Air and signal the DME to CUT the Fuel supply, not increase it?

Did he maintan the same shift points, speed? - he only admits to thinking he did so. Did he hit the same number of Stop Signs (for the same period) or the same number of Stop Lights? Was he on level ground the entire trip? Did he operate the OBC correctly? He admits to a Temp and Weight difference which squewed his comparison, although I admit not 10 MPG worth. He seems to infer that the Car was recently serviced as he had use of a Loaner, was the Battery disconnected during this Service or the DME reset? It could have been in Memory Acquisition for the initial trip(s). None of this is detailed in his Report.

Just explain to me exactly what mechanism is at play here to cause this variation, how it could happen, and you may convert me. Otherwise, my explanation is the much more credible of the two, whether I own a 987 or not. I'm not even heavily disputing his variation in MPG, only that the Snorkle, or lack of it, was somehow the cause.

You wanna believe this guy and his Methodology, OK, that's your right, but don't profer it here as FACT that others may act upon. And don't arbitrarily impune my knowledge and experience just because you're willing to be led down the proverbial path without any examination of the facts. I don't know which is sillier, his assertion, or your believing it...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

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Old 03-08-2006, 11:27 AM   #16
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OK, let's get some lively discussion going about the below (or above) suggestion to use a "High Flow" and its potential effect on the CEL! Looks like we have covered the de-snorkel debate/topic pretty well!
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Old 03-08-2006, 11:53 AM   #17
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My personal experiece with the Evo Cone setup ruined 2 MAF's. It sounded sweet though!

Since then I've had the newer MAF from the 04+ cars and software update. I have read that these newer stlye MAF's won't go bad, but I'm not going to chance it again. My local mechanic, a Master Technician for Porsche, told me every car he's replaced the MAF on had a K&N stlye filter.

Obviously your 987 would have the newer style MAF.
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Old 03-08-2006, 11:56 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by MNBoxster
You wanna believe this guy and his Methodology, OK, that's your right, but don't profer it here as FACT that others may act upon. And don't arbitrarily impune my knowledge and experience just because you're willing to be led down the proverbial path without any examination of the facts. I don't know which is sillier, his assertion, or your believing it...
I don't think he intended for you to take it quite so harshly and certainly I don't think that it is an affront to your depth of knowledge. Throwing paragraphs at him in defense is a little over the top.

You have a lot of knowledge and you want to share it, that's fantastic, but sometimes you can be a bit overwhelming in your demonstration of that knowledge. Even the most knowledgeable of experts can be questioned, y'know?

Sometimes anecdotal evidence is all we have to go on. This guy's experience showed that he got a 50% reduction in gas mileage when desnorkeled. It may not be very scientific, but neither are your anecdotal claims that a strut tower bar improves handling yet you continue to defend those.

This 987 owner stands by his claims; they warrant discussion.
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Old 03-08-2006, 12:12 PM   #19
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Hello Tommy

That's why I love my new exhaust.

Magnaflow.

KRZ
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Old 03-08-2006, 12:40 PM   #20
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I don't think he intended for you to take it quite so harshly and certainly I don't think that it is an affront to your depth of knowledge. Throwing paragraphs at him in defense is a little over the top.

You have a lot of knowledge and you want to share it, that's fantastic, but sometimes you can be a bit overwhelming in your demonstration of that knowledge. Even the most knowledgeable of experts can be questioned, y'know?

Sometimes anecdotal evidence is all we have to go on. This guy's experience showed that he got a 50% reduction in gas mileage when desnorkeled. It may not be very scientific, but neither are your anecdotal claims that a strut tower bar improves handling yet you continue to defend those.

This 987 owner stands by his claims; they warrant discussion.
Hi,

Actually, I think he did. Using upper case in Internet Courtesy is akin to shouting and there were no emoticons to indicate otherwise. Most people would have taken it the way I did.

Thank you for your compliment on my knowledge, but that's merely a discovery and retention of fact - I did not invent this stuff - those are the really smart People! Most of what I learned was passed on to me and has stood the test of time if nothing else. But, I am always ready and willing to be challenged. If I'm incorrect, I want to know it and I also want to learn, so no problem there. If you feel I'm overwhelming, point taken. Read my posts and avoid looking for inferences and other meaning and maybe it won't seem so overwhelming.

Agreed, anecdotal evidence can be a good thing, it leads to further exploration and confirmation, but lacking this, it must always be viewed with some skepticism, maybe even much skepticism.

So far as my claims for the Strut Braces, there is some degree anecdotalism in my claims, but not totally. I took a couple pieces of kitchen string and attached one end to a Stud on each Strut Tower. I joined the Strings in the middle with a Glue Stick sufficient that they would withstand a little tension. Then I ran the Car 3 times on a twisty road with left and right handers and some off-camber surface. The string broke each time. After installing the Front Brace, I used the String setup again, 3 runs on the same road, same weight, speed. The string did not break once proving that the Towers do indeed move in opposition.

Also, I ran a favorite stretch of road, same weight, speed, tire pressure and noted at what speed the Car broke loose. After adding each Brace, I ran it again in duplicate conditions (identical to the degree allowed by Quantum Physics which states that no two events can ever be the exact same), and was able to increase my speed by 7MPH, then 12 MPH respectively. Add to this that virtually everyone who has done the install has confirmed my claims. This is somewhat more empirical than simple Feel. And, you can do the same thing and you will get the same results - it is repeatable!

There were any number of reasons why the Lister experienced a 50% reduction in MPG, independent of the action of removing the Snorkle, including the possibility that he didn't experience a reduction at all, but only thought he did because of some factor which he didn't account for.

As I stated, the only function of the Snorkle is to reduce Noise. The Intake System of the 986/987 are identical in the way they function (though not truly identical). Many 986 Owners and 987 Owners have sucessfully de-snorkled with no ill effects. This further leads me to believe that the Lister was mistaken and merely concluded an invalid Cause & Effect...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

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