IMS Solution... Price?

[Ckrikos]

All I would change from your explanation of each option, is that the LN IMSB doesn't have multiple wear points. Its actually 5x stronger than the Porsche IMSB. There is an inherent fault in the motor design that causes these bearings to wear. There are other wear points in the motor (23 other areas) and the slow failure of any of these other areas may quicken the failure of the IMSB by introducing foreign objects into the bearing race.

JD, I didn't realize you had $40K in mods done to your car. Given that information I might send the car to Jake. My car is a bone stock 02 2.7 that I have owned since its arrival to the USA. I have $44K in acquisition costs and $3K in mods (half of which I can easily remove and sell). I was thinking of buying a motor from Jake, but decided to save the money instead as I don't really need more of a performance car given the amount of time I drive it. Instead I decided to service it and cross my fingers that nothing else breaks after the LN IMSB is installed as I think the frequency of other failures is quite low.

[BYprodriver]

Originally Posted by Johnny Danger

Given the impending doom that has always been discussed with regard to the oem bearing, as I see it, I have one or two options. I can either cross my fingers and hope for the best or proceed with the IMSB retor-fit. Waiting for the IMS Solution to become available in my area any time soon is not a viable option.

+ 3rd option is the one you have chosen for the 4 years the IMSB retrofit has been available. :dance:

[Jake Raby]

The single row bearing has had a 50K recommended service interval since it was released, that has never changed and is stated on the LN website, where it has been since 2008. The fact that some people didn't read this doesn't surprise me. The fact that some people did read it, but improperly perceived it also does not surprise me.

I don't think that most of you realize that these units will be sold through your local shops in the future through their parts supply houses. The fact is during the initial swarm of installs we are only carrying out installations here (at Flat 6 Innovations), which means or at least the next 4-6 months no one else will have access to the technology. This is THE SAME thing that we did with the LN retrofit bearing when it was released as it is imperative that we use practical application experience to devise the installation directives and support programs for installers that will be tasked with the life of your engine. If they make one mistake, its our reputation that pays for it. I do not take that lightly and it is absolutely imperative that we experience every complication/ challenge possible here before units are employed elsewhere. I won't lie, doing this also helps pay me back for the YEARS of development that have gone into this product here at my facility.

Doing things in this manner is not the simplest, nor the most lucrative, but it is the way that we avoid errors that lead to pissed off customers with issues. Installers of this technology will have more processes that must be carried out than the standard retrofit, because the unit must be fed with clean oil at initial start up and etc. The work must be done in an absolutely clean work area with no debris present and it must be treated more like engine surgery than any standard retrofit. What is "simple" to some people/ shops is actually really difficult.

Its this straight forward:
Take advantage of the technology now and have the same hands that carried out all the test work install the IMS Solution into your engine, or just wait until your local shop can get the units through their supply system.

The only choice that doesn't exist is DIY installations.

Or just utilize the classic retrofit that costs less money but is sold with a 50K mile service interval. Thats all.

As far as shipping cars, we have connections with PROVEN companies that we have worked with for years. We have ZERO local customers and everything comes in from out of state. I have tasked these same people with the tasks of moving my personal cars and have done so without any complications. One of our shippers (applewood Motorcar) usually hauls Boxster and 996s to us in the same haulers that are filled with new Maserati's, Ferraris and Lamborghini's inside of. Shipping is not difficult, in fact I have one employee that is tasked with those logistics as his primary task, he shipped one back to Massachusetts this morning and just picked another up from Florida a few minutes ago to replace it with. I wish everything was as simple as shipping vehicles.

[mountainman]

Jake, I am a little north of asheville, nc, probably 3 hours or less from you, and I have an 08 boxster S with 30K on it that I am not too worried about (IMS wise ), an 04 boxster S limited edition with 40K on it that I will probably want you to do the IMS solution on in the near future and an 02 C4 that already suffered an IMS failure at 46K miles leading to a new engine from the local dealership. I now have about 24K miles on the new engine and I have no idea what type bearing the new engine had in it when it was installed. Is there any way to tell from the serial number on the engine or is it just a change it anyway kind of thing. The engine was replaced about 2 1/2 years ago. thanks for any insight you can offer.

[Johnny Danger]

Originally Posted by BYprodriver

+ 3rd option is the one you have chosen for the 4 years the IMSB retrofit has been available. :dance:

Meaning ??

[Jake Raby]

Originally Posted by mountainman

Jake, I am a little north of asheville, nc, probably 3 hours or less from you, and I have an 08 boxster S with 30K on it that I am not too worried about (IMS wise ), an 04 boxster S limited edition with 40K on it that I will probably want you to do the IMS solution on in the near future and an 02 C4 that already suffered an IMS failure at 46K miles leading to a new engine from the local dealership. I now have about 24K miles on the new engine and I have no idea what type bearing the new engine had in it when it was installed. Is there any way to tell from the serial number on the engine or is it just a change it anyway kind of thing. The engine was replaced about 2 1/2 years ago. thanks for any insight you can offer.

That engine has the M97 bearing which is not serviceable at all. All new and reman engines provided post 2006 have the M97 bearing, even if they are M96 based.

Engine # ID in regard to bearing style/ application does not exist and the ones that are out there have proven to be absolutely inaccurate.

[mountainman]

Thanks Jake for the info. The access to info like that is one of the big advantages of this forum. I have found that getting information out of a dealer on issues like that is most difficult and frustrating. Not sure if they have limited knowledge or just are reluctant to share. I'll be in touch in a few weks to schedule the 04. Got to slowly prepare the wife so I don't also have to buy an additional $3500 worth of furniture.

[mikefocke]

You wouldn't be the first, my first Boxster cost me a mink coat ... not that she forced the issue but, since she had suggested I buy the Porsche I had been looking at for years, it was only right I suggest she buy the coat she always wanted.

When she is happy...

[Jake Raby]

I am lucky.. My Wife wears the race suit in the family and loves Porsches more than I do!
:-)

[Joe B]

Originally Posted by Jake Raby

I am lucky.. My Wife wears the race suit in the family and loves Porsches more than I do!
:-)

Is that possible ?

[Jake Raby]

Originally Posted by Joe B

Is that possible ?

Its a reality. She isn't bad for an accountant, most of them don't hold multiple Land Speed Records in a 911.

[southernstar]

Jake, I have a 2000 Base with a manufacture date in late August of 1999. As I understand it, the 'IMS' solution is not available for the earlier twin row bearings; however, there is no way to tell whether my bearing is the older twin row, or the later single row without disassembly. If I order the IMS update assuming it to be twin row and my mechanic discovers on disassembly that is single row, I will need to have my car reassembled then shipped from Ontario, Canada to your shop for installation of the IMS Solution, then shipped back to Canada. Or am I missing something? In those circumstances, would the IMS update still be available if it turns out that I have the single row bearing?

Brad

[mikefocke]

Aren't you supposed to take the trans off and look at the narrow/wide IMS flange seen in pictures here What IMS do I have? | IMS Retrofit to see if you have a single row or double row before ordering as the kits aren't returnable.

And assuming you aren't the original owner and thus could have a replacement engine you didn't know about, how long you've had the car could prevent you from having the third generation IMS or thrust you into the possibility of having one. You ID the 3rd generation by the 22mm nut.

[southernstar]

Mike, I have bills from the original owner and the engine numbers match the body (to the extent that they would denote a very early 2.7) so I feel safe in concluding that the engine was not replaced. I agree that, as engine numbers are not reliable, one is supposed to disassemble to determine whether it is a dual or single bearing. In the past this was not a problem as the ceramic bearing was available for both. Now they are only available for the earlier (double) and hence, after disassembly by my mechanic, I can only order a bearing if I have an earlier d. If not, I need to have the car re-assembled and shipped (or the engine removed and it and the transmission shipped), to and from Ontario, Canada. Or am I missing something?

Brad

[Meir]

Originally Posted by southernstar

Mike, I have bills from the original owner and the engine numbers match the body (to the extent that they would denote a very early 2.7) so I feel safe in concluding that the engine was not replaced. I agree that, as engine numbers are not reliable, one is supposed to disassmble to determine whether it is a dual or single bearing. In the past this was not a problem as the ceramic bearing was available for both. Now they are only available for the earlier (double) and hence, after disassembly by my mechanic, I can only order a bearing if I have an earlier d. If not, I need to have the car re-assembled and shipped (or the engine removed and it and the transmission shipped), to and from Ontario, Canada. Or am I missing something?

Brad

as far as i know, the ceramic bearing from LN is available in both the single and the double raw configuration.
order the bearing only after the flywheel was removed, and you can see which one you need.
the "final solution" is available only for the later style single row, and contently available only at flat6.
so this way or the other, your mechanic cant do the job for you (yet).

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by southernstar

Mike, I have bills from the original owner and the engine numbers match the body (to the extent that they would denote a very early 2.7) so I feel safe in concluding that the engine was not replaced. I agree that, as engine numbers are not reliable, one is supposed to disassmble to determine whether it is a dual or single bearing. In the past this was not a problem as the ceramic bearing was available for both. Now they are only available for the earlier (double) and hence, after disassembly by my mechanic, I can only order a bearing if I have an earlier d. If not, I need to have the car re-assembled and shipped (or the engine removed and it and the transmission shipped), to and from Ontario, Canada. Or am I missing something?

Brad

Unfortunately, with a 2000-2001 car with the original engine, there is always some question which style bearing is in the car. That said, it is not that much of an issue to take the car apart and then overnight the correct unit. There is not much recourse to doing it this way, other than to buy both styles and try to return the unused unit.

[southernstar]

No, there is no problem with disassembling then couriering the part. I had understood that as of now, one could only order the upgraded ceramic bearing for the double row. If you can order either, then there is no change and I won't need to ship out the car if it turns out to be the single.

Brad

[JFP in PA]

LN's site still lists both style bearings (single and dual row), and I have not heard of any plans to discontinue the single row style.

[Joe B]

Another IMSB related question. I was going to have a "Preferred Installer" in Pasadena CA put an LN ceramic IMSB in my 2003 Boxster S that I recently bought, for peace of mind. Then, low and behold, today I discovered the service booklet with the owner's manual, which says the engine was replaced in October of 2006 (not IMSB related). My question is, what should I do? I know that after 2005, the engine cases need to be split to install the IMSB. Is my only reasonable recourse to get the engine number and see which bearing it needs? I don't want the installer to pull the transmission and clutch, only to find out that I don't have the single row bearing. I don't need a clutch, it was just recently replaced, and the dealer said the IMSB looked fine, whatever that means. Suggestions?

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by Joe B

Another IMSB related question. I was going to have a "Preferred Installer" in Pasadena CA put an LN ceramic IMSB in my 2003 Boxster S that I recently bought, for peace of mind. Then, low and behold, today I discovered the service booklet with the owner's manual, which says the engine was replaced in October of 2006 (not IMSB related). My question is, what should I do? I know that after 2005, the engine cases need to be split to install the IMSB. Is my only reasonable recourse to get the engine number and see which bearing it needs? I don't want the installer to pull the transmission and clutch, only to find out that I don't have the single row bearing. I don't need a clutch, it was just recently replaced, and the dealer said the IMSB looked fine, whatever that means. Suggestions?

If the engine was replaced in October of 2006, it has the non-serviceable oversized IMS bearing that would require a full engine tear down to replace. But you still have some options: Add a Guardian warning system, which would alert you should the bearing (or other major component) start to go south. Switch to a high ZDDP full synthetic oil, add the LN spin on filter and magnetic drain plug. If at any time in the future the trans has to come out, like a clutch job, have the rear seal removed from the OEM IMS bearing so it gets splash lubrication. Any, or all, of these would help in the long term.