Go Back   986 Forum - for Porsche Boxster & Cayman Owners > Porsche Boxster & Cayman Forums > Performance and Technical chat

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-29-2012, 06:36 AM   #1
DIY extremist
 
black_box's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Brooklyn
Posts: 348
Single Row IMSB w/ double row (shallow) IMS cover (another squeal theory)

When I originally opened up my IMS cover (over 2 months ago!!!) and pulled the bearing, it was held in with a circlip, had no spacer, and was a SINGLE row bearing, however, the cover was a shallow, DUAL row type like the one in the pic below (photo is from LN, but it's the cover I have):


From looking at it (pic below), it appears that someone must have previously been into my IMS before, from all of the sealant they left behind. Maybe they changed the dual row to a single?


When I put the whole thing back together, I used the circlip and no spacers and reinstalled the new bearing just as the old one was in there with OEM stud. Once assembled it made a nasty squeaking noise under engine load (as in my thread of misery here).

I now have the IMS cover off (again!) and want to absolutely get this right. Does determination of single vs dual have to do with the cover, or with the shaft itself? If it's just the cover, then I will reinstall using pelican kit, spiroloc and dual row spacing. If not, then I will use single row spacing.

Thanks everyone for reading the facts carefully and giving your best advice. Although I'm still up the creek right now, I really appreciate everything so far. I wish it were possible to buy everyone a beer. I've got a week to get this done, because I have no free time after Sept 6. Can't wait to get my car back on the road!
__________________
"Betty" -- 2000 Boxster S, Triple Black, loaded except PSM (sold to a good home)
"Veronica" -- 2008 Boxster S, Arctic Silver on Blue
"Maleficent" -- 2007 Cayman S, Red and Black, TPC Turbo 3.6L 460 RWHP, H&R RSS Coilover / TPC stage 2 suspension
black_box is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2012, 07:52 AM   #2
2001 Arctic Silver 2.7
 
tony_fury's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Huntington Beach,CA
Posts: 310
Garage
black_box:
Why not give LN a call, they should know.
Man that doesn't look pretty...
__________________
2001 Boxster - Arctic Silver Metallic
RMS, IMS, 87.5K
tony_fury is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2012, 11:43 AM   #3
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 67
x2 on calling LN, I'm sure they will answer your Q's.

That pic does not look good, also looks like someone broke out the JB weld...yikes! Hope you can get this figured out and get your Box back on the road.
Uller God is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2012, 12:09 PM   #4
Theoretical propagandist
 
Eric G's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 793
Garage
Sounds like you inherited some FUBAR from the PO as having mixed parts is not a good thing.

+3 on calling Jake to work out the issues.
__________________
When life throws you curves, aim for the apex...
Eric G is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2012, 12:38 PM   #5
DIY extremist
 
black_box's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Brooklyn
Posts: 348
The crud in the bolt hole is just loctite residue, but I'll clean them out before final installation.

I called Jake a few weeks back, but was informed that since I hadn't bought anything from them, they would not provide any technical support. Tried calling LN too, but they just redirect to Flat 6 / Jake Raby. FYI, I bought the LN tooklit and retrofit kit from Pelican.
__________________
"Betty" -- 2000 Boxster S, Triple Black, loaded except PSM (sold to a good home)
"Veronica" -- 2008 Boxster S, Arctic Silver on Blue
"Maleficent" -- 2007 Cayman S, Red and Black, TPC Turbo 3.6L 460 RWHP, H&R RSS Coilover / TPC stage 2 suspension
black_box is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2012, 01:17 PM   #6
Registered User
 
seningen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: austin
Posts: 730
Quote:
Originally Posted by black_box View Post
The crud in the bolt hole is just loctite residue, but I'll clean them out before final installation.

I called Jake a few weeks back, but was informed that since I hadn't bought anything from them, they would not provide any technical support. Tried calling LN too, but they just redirect to Flat 6 / Jake Raby. FYI, I bought the LN tooklit and retrofit kit from Pelican.
I would set the TDC and lock both sides.

back off all the tensioners, see if it re-aligns, or can be realigned.

check your oil filter for any particulates -- especially aluminum.
it's possible that the tube was rotating at an angle and grinding on the far side.

Only way to know for sure would be to pull the oil pump off and inspect the far side of the tube. I doubt that can be done with the engine in -- but I could be wrong.

I just don't remember enough about the clips to know which tube has what profile.
I thought there was a recess/lip that would not allow the bearing to travel any further
than it was supposed to longitudinally. In other words I don't think you could
put a dual in where a single was -- but not sure about vis-versa.

M
__________________
Drivers: '08 Cayenne Turbo, 96 993 Çab/Tip (wife's) & '92 964 Cab
Race Cars: '75 911 RSR Clone & '99 Spec Boxster
mike@lonestarrpm.com
seningen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2012, 01:58 PM   #7
DIY extremist
 
black_box's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Brooklyn
Posts: 348
The crank is currently locked at TDC, with the left cam bank also locked. I was able to realign the shaft to be centered in the hole as well. My question is, if I have a dual-row bearing cover, should I use the dual row spacers?
__________________
"Betty" -- 2000 Boxster S, Triple Black, loaded except PSM (sold to a good home)
"Veronica" -- 2008 Boxster S, Arctic Silver on Blue
"Maleficent" -- 2007 Cayman S, Red and Black, TPC Turbo 3.6L 460 RWHP, H&R RSS Coilover / TPC stage 2 suspension
black_box is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2012, 02:06 PM   #8
Theoretical propagandist
 
Eric G's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 793
Garage
. ..
__________________
When life throws you curves, aim for the apex...

Last edited by Eric G; 08-29-2012 at 02:14 PM.
Eric G is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2012, 02:10 PM   #9
DIY extremist
 
black_box's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Brooklyn
Posts: 348


Got the shaft to center up now, but still don't know which spacer setup to use, single or double row.
__________________
"Betty" -- 2000 Boxster S, Triple Black, loaded except PSM (sold to a good home)
"Veronica" -- 2008 Boxster S, Arctic Silver on Blue
"Maleficent" -- 2007 Cayman S, Red and Black, TPC Turbo 3.6L 460 RWHP, H&R RSS Coilover / TPC stage 2 suspension
black_box is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2012, 06:33 PM   #10
DIY extremist
 
black_box's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Brooklyn
Posts: 348
I made some measurements, and found that only the single row spacer setup will actually fit, so that's what I put in. The cover went on easily. I bolted up the flywheel and unlocked crank and cams, pulled ignition fuse, and turned over the engine with starter. The squeak is still there!

I am considering buttoning up the whole car and just driving it around a bit. If something got a little off from hammering on the IMS, it may go back with a little driving. I will stop if the noise worsens.
__________________
"Betty" -- 2000 Boxster S, Triple Black, loaded except PSM (sold to a good home)
"Veronica" -- 2008 Boxster S, Arctic Silver on Blue
"Maleficent" -- 2007 Cayman S, Red and Black, TPC Turbo 3.6L 460 RWHP, H&R RSS Coilover / TPC stage 2 suspension
black_box is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2012, 06:40 PM   #11
Engine Surgeon
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Cleveland GA USA
Posts: 2,424
LN and my company alike only support our products. Though you may be using the extraction tool that I designed, we simply cannot support products that we haven't developed or use.

Since you have installed that particular bearing, you now know more about it than I do... Because we don't use them. We can't help you with the first hand experience if we don't have that first hand experience.

Chevy doesn't support a Ford and BMW doesn't support a Porsche, its the same difference.
__________________
Jake Raby/www.flat6innovations.com
IMS Solution/ Faultless Tool Inventor
US Patent 8,992,089 &
US Patent 9,416,697
Developer of The IMS Retrofit Procedure- M96/ M97 Specialist
Jake Raby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2012, 07:26 PM   #12
DIY extremist
 
black_box's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Brooklyn
Posts: 348
Of course, I totally understand. Just explaining why I wasn't able to ask you guys about the problem.
__________________
"Betty" -- 2000 Boxster S, Triple Black, loaded except PSM (sold to a good home)
"Veronica" -- 2008 Boxster S, Arctic Silver on Blue
"Maleficent" -- 2007 Cayman S, Red and Black, TPC Turbo 3.6L 460 RWHP, H&R RSS Coilover / TPC stage 2 suspension
black_box is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2012, 07:33 PM   #13
Registered User
 
seningen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: austin
Posts: 730
Where is the squeal coming from?

Have you isolated it to a point source?

I know that can be a real PITA.

sometimes a stethoscope helps.

Mike
__________________
Drivers: '08 Cayenne Turbo, 96 993 Çab/Tip (wife's) & '92 964 Cab
Race Cars: '75 911 RSR Clone & '99 Spec Boxster
mike@lonestarrpm.com
seningen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2012, 07:58 PM   #14
DIY extremist
 
black_box's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Brooklyn
Posts: 348
tried the stethescope, Mike with no luck. But with my ears, I can isolate it to the cylinder #4 area.

There was a lot of banging on the IMS, maybe it shifted forwards a few .001s and is pulling weirdly on the bank #2 oil pump?
__________________
"Betty" -- 2000 Boxster S, Triple Black, loaded except PSM (sold to a good home)
"Veronica" -- 2008 Boxster S, Arctic Silver on Blue
"Maleficent" -- 2007 Cayman S, Red and Black, TPC Turbo 3.6L 460 RWHP, H&R RSS Coilover / TPC stage 2 suspension
black_box is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2012, 07:54 AM   #15
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: weehawken nj
Posts: 240
So did LN engineering supply the bearing?

And as for squeaking, well here in my shop we have a simple time saving philosophy. If the car didnt have the problem when you took it apart, that means you broke it.

Its possible you may have overtightened the nut for the bearing?
Bigsmoothlee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2012, 08:41 AM   #16
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: France
Posts: 32
Hello

To Check Camshaft Timing with IMS cover in place of course....


You said you locked the engine at DTC with the left cam bank locked ....OK...
when you rotate your engine 360 degrees , you should be able to lock the right side with the tool
and with another 360 degrees to get back on the left side locking position.

you cannot have the right and left tools aligned at DTC.

If it doesn't work this way then You must have a problem with the timing.
I hope it is not the case.
philou320 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2012, 08:48 AM   #17
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: France
Posts: 32
on my 2002 boxster I have a single row


gle
philou320 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2012, 10:04 AM   #18
DIY extremist
 
black_box's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Brooklyn
Posts: 348


This is the front side of left cylinder bank (4-6).
I think this is the location of the front tensioner paddle.
__________________
"Betty" -- 2000 Boxster S, Triple Black, loaded except PSM (sold to a good home)
"Veronica" -- 2008 Boxster S, Arctic Silver on Blue
"Maleficent" -- 2007 Cayman S, Red and Black, TPC Turbo 3.6L 460 RWHP, H&R RSS Coilover / TPC stage 2 suspension
black_box is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2012, 06:32 PM   #19
Registered User
 
2000boxster986's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: US, Calif
Posts: 72
Garage
BB,
Can you get a bore scope in there? Maybe see what is going on before taking the engine removal plunge...
2000boxster986 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2012, 07:05 PM   #20
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: sac. ca
Posts: 156
Most likely a broken chain guide....
__________________
98 boxster
82 280sl parts for sale
feelyx is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -8. The time now is 10:23 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2018 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page