Pelican IMS bearing stud has separated inside shaft
 

I have a 2000 Boxster S 3.2 w/ factory single row bearing and am currently stalled in my install of the Pelican IMS replacement kit using LN toolkit (my order id #1339174643-508). I followed the current web installation guide instructions for project #14 (Pelican Technical Article: Boxster Intermediate Shaft Bearing Replacement and Upgrade (IMS) - 986 Boxster (1997-04) - 987 Boxster (2005-06)) to the letter and had no issues until the step illustrated in fig. 109. We assembled the install tool, bearing w/ prepressed stud and the 12mm nut, with the nut lubed and hand-tightened with a deep socket and froze it overnight. We tapped it into the motor and then hit our snag: the nut WOULD NOT come off by any ordinary means (slotted screwdriver inserted through 12mm deep socket held by vise grips), meaning that the installation tool was stuck in the engine. I fabricated a long slotted bit for my hand impact driver that could reach thru the socket, and was finally able this afternoon to remove the nut after much despair and gnashing of teeth. When the tool was pulled off, it appears that the center stud had been pushed through and was not longer pressed into the bearing (see attached photo).

As you can see in my photo, the center stud is now just floating in the tube and is no longer attached to the inner race of the bearing. I may be able to use the installation tools to pull the stud back through and get it snug again in place, or I can remove the entire assembly and press it back together with a vise and repeat the entire process with the un- and re-installed bearing/stud assembly. I am not sure if that route is safe though, because of degradation of the bearing due to pulling it. If it is possible to get another one of the bearings by itself, that seems like safest course, although I'd like to get my car back on the road ASAP.

Additionally, the entire IMS shaft appears to be off-centered, cocked up and to the right at about 1 o'clock (see pics again). As I followed the Pelican instructions exactly, I removed the two rear tensioners and used set screws to secure the IMS sprocket, but did not lock out the motor at TDC, as the LN instructions dictate. I have since learned that this allowed some cam chain tension to remain and that the front side tensioner paddle must have pushed the IMS shaft off at an angle. I don't know if installing the cover will push the tube back to the center.

I've already given myself the deserved 40 lashes for not locking out at TDC, but will say that I would've done this had I known to -- my kit's instructions did not mention it at all.

So, do you think it's safe to leave the bearing in place and try to get the stud back in, or do I need to go back to square one? And what about the IMS tube being off-center? I know that this has happened to other guys before me and it seemed to work out, but I am feeling pretty nervous about the whole thing.

Thanks for your feedback!
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These IMS jobs really can get nasty! Mine certainly did. I would increase the bevel in your removal tool to help guide the offcenter bearing into the sleeve(I did this and it worked great). Once it is half way in the sleeve I would adjust your allen bolts so that when its time to put the bearing back in it will be centered. I would then completely remove the IMS and make sure that the stud is properly seated.

Am I correct in saying that you installed the pelican bearing, and then removed it and reinstalled a new one? I don't want to do that, but will if it means my motor will be safe.

Over at Pelican, Wayne suggested that I use a washer and a nut to pull the stud back into the bearing, then use wrangle the IMS tube back into place using the IMS cover. Was that an option for you too?

Hi got a couple of questions for you. I might have missed it but did you take the tensioners all the way out? if not do that. As far as the center bolt, that should be relatively easy. Line the bolt up and get a thick washer or space and tighten the nut, holding the stud with a screw driver, once seated you should be able to get the nut back off.
After you tensioners are completely out start the cover on and wrangle it back in place, you may have to pry on the case but be very careful that you only pry on a reinforced section of the case. I have a couple that did this.

For others who are going to do this job please!!! do yourself a favor and set #1 piston on top dead center and lock the crank. Also lock the cams on bank 1-3 no need to even use the set screws if you do this and if you get in trouble this is where the crank and cams need to be to get out of trouble.

Good luck and if you need more help pm me, I have done several dozens of the IMS bearing changes using both LN engineering and Pelicans bearings.

i believe this is the PP bearing, which is "similar" the porsche bearing, not the LN bearing. i would think calling PP might generate a little interest in getting it back for analysis, but maybe not. i've read a lot of posts lately from people using the PP instructions which do not indicate locking at TDC. jfp and jake have even mentioned in a previous post that this keeps tension on the shaft and can cause it to go off center.

http://986forum.com/forums/performance-technical-chat/35618-ims-install-help-ims-bearing-not-centered.html

maybe the above thread can help.

Dude, that stud is FUBAR.. Why did you mangle it like that? Good luck getting the nut to install onto that stud without cross threading. I'd pull the whole thing out and replace that stud, then start over. You don't want to know the nightmares a cross threaded stud can cause when it gets 1/2 way installed then decides not to tighten any further.

I'm not the expert, I've only done one of these, but I would do what Wayne said to seat the center stud then pre-test the threads with the nut to make sure it won't do what Jake is indicating could happen, if the threads f'd then start over. Make sure the tensioners are completely out and the cams are locked. I think you'll have to take those set screws out to recenter the shaft. My shaft floated around a little too but caused no issue, put thousands of miles on the car with no issues.
I think you are going to be fine, if everything goes back together as planned close her back up and drive the hell out of it. After changing mine I never think about it for a second anymore.

I will go ahead and try to cinch up the stud back into the bearing. the thing that got chewed up was the head of the stud, from slipping several times with a slotted screwdriver in it trying to get the nut off. Took impact driver to sort it out. I'll use my dental mirror to inspect the threads before trying to do anything, and if it gets stuck I'm pulling the whole thing out again. I have the set screws in, both rear tensioners out and camshaft ends marked, but would like to lock them all the same - is there a tool available to do this that's not a specialty porsche piece?

Brace
 

Probably at this point you should at least brace the main shaft... just a measure of assuring things don't move. I used a piece of aluminum as shown. As far as the IMS shifted in the hole. In my case it went back to center pretty easily once the cover was put on. I did use a screwdriver to help it along. Gently press it against the thick part of the engine case.
It will go on.
Attachment 16431

Sorry thought you said you had the LNS kit...it has the cam locks. Or do what 2000 said :)

Hello from France

After having read you post, I was smilling ( not because you have a problem) but because the same thing happened to me when I changed mine.

Don't worry and above all do not rotate anything

First completely realease the chain tensioners and after, unscrew a little the srews used to immobilize the IMS sprocket in order to be able to center it .
Use the tool to put back the center piece in the bearing from behind ( use the cover like you have finished the job to pull it throught).
I wouldn't change the bearing as It didn't get hammered or damaged.

After this rotate manually the engine to check that the marks are back in line (720°).

Good luck

Going to go do it today (I run my own biz, so I can get greasy on Monday mornings ;)

Wish me luck, hopefully I won't kill my engine!

it did not go well at all today.

Try as I might, I couldn't get the stud to press back into bearing evenly. I tried putting the cover on to pull the whole thing into place, but every time I did so, the stud would pop back out. I pulled the bearing again and tried to get the pelican stud into the factory cover and realized that it was never going to work in the motor -- the fit was just too tight and it was always going to overcome the pressfit of the stud into the bearing.

I reverted to the OEM stud, which the cover fits onto just fine... only problem is that I think I must've inadvertently tossed the M8 1.0mm thread nut that fits onto the smaller OEM stud.

Anyone know where I can get another one of these nuts? The hardware stores don't have anything with that fine of thread. Anyone think it's not worth it to reuse the OEM bearing retainer stud? Mine seems fine.

Sorry about your failled attempt but nothing is lost..

I thing that you cannot put back the stud in place because you don't pull it in the axis of the bearing
so to achieve that you should build a little tool (basically a piece of steel with a hole in the middle) which is going to cover the bearing without touching the engine case( because your bearing is not well alligned yet).. The stud should enter the outer part of the bearing without a big effort unless it has been damaged.

I thought that the retrofit set had a bigger axis to prevent faillure ( The one I bought is bigger).

Keep in mind that so far you didn't dammage your engine and you can still fix the situation you are in, no rush, a lot of thinking, and worst case scenario would be to buy a new set and to not damage it learning from the présent situation.

can you still put a nut on you stud ?

ph.

I have one...
 

Hi Blackbox,
Part of the upgrade bearing is the stronger shaft. I'm not sure how many failures (if any) of the OEM shaft have occurred but someone felt it was better to have the stronger shaft. It almost sounds like the Pelican stud is damaged because it should fit without too much pressure. Given that, if you are going to use the old stud then I believe I still have the nut that came off of mine. I can send it to you. It might be better however at this point to research with Pelican on why the shaft didn't fit. Maybe... they can arrange to send you a new one. It's worth a query to them. If you get that worked out and since the bearing is out you might put the stud in the freezer for a while and then press it into the bearing with a socket that matches the inner race of the bearing and your shop vise. It should just press right in. Send me a private note with your address and I'll send you the nut if you wish to go that route. Cheers,

My Boxster is turning into a black pearl!

I noticed a little friction in the bearing from Pelican, so I cross-referenced it with NAPA and got another identical bearing from them, tapped it into the engine (this time without freezing the bolt onto the stud, and thus not getting it stuck) and used the provided bolts to cinch the cover up. Everything went together perfectly, and according to plan.

After tightening down the cover, I removed the bolts and inserted the final, sealant coated bolts with the tamper proof heads into the factory IMSB cover and tightened them by hand until snug. I set my torque wrench to 8 ft-lbs and took turns tightening each bolt a turn or two and then.... DISASTER! One of the bolt heads snapped off, leaving the shaft embedded in the engine case.

The bolt had to have been defective -- I can't see any other way it could fail with that little torque being applied. Tomorrow I will try using a reverse drill bit to extract it, but am not hopeful. I am rueing the day that I thought it was a good idea to try to do the IMS -- this has been nothing but trouble. I am also really unhappy with the Pelican kit and instructions I've been using -- every single part of it has failed in some way and it looks like I will wind up not having used any of it, having reverted back to the factory stud and getting a new bearing from NAPA, even the damn bolt they included has broken. No idea how long it will take to sort this out, giving up on planned weekend trip with the girlfriend.

Bummer

Be carreful not to put some drilling chips into the engine case ( do not go through entirely).
use the old bolts to finish the job, after all, they have proved themselves OK.

Another possibility is that your torque wrench is not reading correctly.

I thought about this too, or the conversion if you don't use thoses units ft/lbs is wrong

:(
 

How far into the case did the bolt snap? I know you probably don't want to pull the bearing cover back off but can you tell if there is any bolt stud sticking out? Better to try and grab it with vice grips then attempt a drill out. Just a thought.

it's below the surface of the case, I believe. I was late for dinner already when it happened last night, so I just left before getting any more frustrated. I'll take some pics when I head back to the garage today. Fortunately, it shouldn't be too hard to remove due to the lube in the hole and the low torque that was applied getting it in (I hope, :confused:), and if I drill, I can cover up the other side of the hole. THe chances of having it on the road this weekend are slim, but I'm going to try.

Hopefully a reverse drill bit will work. I've even had luck with a dab of epoxy on a nail head and slowly backed a bolt out once. But, you're right, since it didn't go in and jam and just the sealant is holding it may help with it's removal. Hopefully it won't hinder it turning. Yes, take a pic I'm sure others have ideas as well. Good Luck! Once you're back on the road this will all be in the past.... ;)

So, bad got worse..... The plan was to drill into it a bit and then use a screw extractor to pull out the bolt shaft. While I went to the store to buy the appropriate extractor, the guy I have been working with drilled into the bolt. When I returned, he had drilled into it, and had chewed up the threads on the top side of the hole (see pic), making it impossible to use an extractor (should've done it myself I guess).

So, now the situation is that there is a 9mm (as measured) hole drilled into the case, with part of the old bolt still stuck inside. While it may still be possible to get the old bolt out, I don't want to take any chances of getting metal into the motor by drilling through, so I think creating a new, shallower threaded hole may be the way to go here. I am thinking that I will probably go ahead and try to clean up the hole to remove the first 9mm of old bolt, then tap the next larger diameter of metric threads into that. This job is becoming a nightmare.

this is the photo (it's actually the bottom r-hand hole)

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Ghezzz, it did go from bad to worse. Do you know anyone that is a machinist? Might be worth having someone who works with this stuff daily come over and take a look. Might even be worth putting the car on a flatbed and taking it to a machine shop or someone similar. Hate to go to that length but at this point it might be better than having to pull the engine and punch a new hole. Again, just a thought. I feel for you, been there done that on past car projects.

You may want to call a shop that offers EDM (electro discharge machining) capability. Normally this can be found at diesel shops. They can mount of a portable EDM to the block and get this out then you can either keensert/helicoil or somehow refresh the threads.

Sorry to hear you are dealing with this...I hope you end up having a good outcome.

Looking at the picture, I would try this:
With a flat screw driver, try to make it rotate, hitting it from the side very slowly on the upper part where the metal is thick.

Stop if you see that it is not moving,

Future reference on drilling bolts...

File the broken stud end flat. Center-punch the exact center of the stud. This is the most important step because if you are off-center by even a little bit then chances are you will get fuct when you drill. Start with a very small drill bit and work your way up to not larger than the tap drill size. Now run a tap through the hole. Smear some grease on the tap first so it holds the chips and doesn't drop them inside the case.

This method has worked for me flawlessly many times. I don't even bother with screw extrators as I have found that even the good ones don't work most of the time. Once I had one snap off in the hole. Now try and get the bolt out with a hardened extractor snapped off in there!

Good luck with the fix. Looking at your pic with that off-center hole I'm thinking that your only way out of this one is going to be an over-size hole and a heli-coil. I would respectfully and kindly suggest that you should farm that job out as you do seem to be in a little over your head here.

Yeah Mark, you're right. I should've filed it down first. I did punch it myself, and it seemed pretty centered, but I guess not. Helicoil is probably the best way to go now, although I am nervous about going all the way through with it. Having 9 out 16mm of the original hole should be safe and is a lot less scary than drilling completely through the case and possibly dropping metal chunks in.

I did try the screwdriver trick, BTW, no dice.

Real question to me: WTF happened to the original bolt? I checked the torque wrench against another one that has a indicator instead of a click (by pulling and redriving a random bolt in a metal door frame), and it was true to within 1 ft-lb at 8ft-lb's. So the bolt that pelican shipped me snapped with less than 8 ft-lb's??? That's crazy. I must be cursed on this job.

Found these on the web... similar to helicoils. Might be just the ticket for your fix. :)
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Went ahead and helicoiled it for the original size threads, with what was left of the old bolt still stuck in there! I did some measurements, and it's not possible that the old bolt is protruding past the case, but to be safe I dropped a big dollop of JB Weld behind the helicoil to permanently fix the old bolt in place and anchor the helicoil (due to there not being any fixed stop behind it).

Yay! Sounds like it's coming back together. Good deal! :)

Wow. I admire your persistence. I'd be on meds and in counselling already if I'd gone through this nightmare. Good for you! :cheers:

seconded ! i'd probably be down a few bottles of J.D. by now !

as a tip i have a guy named the thread doctor, he does a lot of work for local garages, including porsche (and other main dealers) and some porsche specialists, he's had to right a few wrongs by specialists with head bolts snapping off. wehn time comes to do my headers i will be calling him to remove the bolts and i know that due to corrosion they *will* likely not go as planned.

it really is worthwhile finding a thread speacilist in the area and keeping hold of his cardso when things go bad its a phone call and an hour labor bill for removing the stress.

glad to hear its coming together though