Oil Change

[Uncle Bob]

Originally Posted by Brucelee

I think if depends on how long you think you are going to keep you car. If you tend to hold on to your car post-warranty, I would change the oil and filter every 7500 miles with M1 0W-40.

If you are the kind of guy who sells or trades when warranty is over or before, I would NOT spend ANY extra money on services like this.

Hope that helps.

I intend to keep this a long time.

So, changing at 7500 is OK for first change as well?

[Brucelee]

I think it is.

There are some purists who think the first oil change should be at very low miles , ie 1000 in order to get any metal shavings that might get produced when the engine is breaking in.

I THINK that is a bit much on a car like the Boxster but it is a personal preference in my opinion.

Having said that, that is exactly what I did when my wife bought her brand new Subaru.

Go figure.

I have always done the first change at 1,000 miles. I'll do the same with the Boxster. I think it will be worth the $110 (dealership). Peach of mind alone.

[Biz-z Z]

Originally Posted by bmussatti

I have always done the first change at 1,000 miles. I'll do the same with the Boxster. I think it will be worth the $110 (dealership). Peach of mind alone.

$110 for an oil change? What a dream! The two closest dealerships to me are charging $225-$250 with a straight face.

[Uncle Bob]

Most I ever paid was $110 for the Touareg. It had an Audi 4.2 V-8 and took 7 qt's of Mobil 1.

$225? Man that sounds like one of those Porsche = $$$$ deals to me. I'll definitely ask. I do know I can change the oil on this bad boy pretty easily myself.

[BadBoyS]

Changed oil today (With the help of a few good threads here) Thanks to ALL

Mobil 1 2 cases 12 quarts$ 93.60
Filter "o : ring and crush ring $18.45
Filter wrench 25.00
Low profile ramps 29.99

8mm Allen Socket 5.95

Kitty litter for the quart of oil I spilled on the floor and the line across the floor when I dropped the oil pan plug. (O that was after I dropped it in the oil drain pan) PRICELESS

110.00 is really a good deal Can't blame you for jumping on that one...

Plugs on Monday Hopefully not as messy LOL

[Uncle Bob]

Originally Posted by Uncle Bob

Most I ever paid was $110 for the Touareg. It had an Audi 4.2 V-8 and took 7 qt's of Mobil 1.

$225? Man that sounds like one of those Porsche = $$$$ deals to me. I'll definitely ask. I do know I can change the oil on this bad boy pretty easily myself.

They quoted me $235 inc. tax! It takes 11 qts of oil as well.

Ya know? till it's off warranty? I'll just pay a little more and have it documented and have them do it. I won't wait 20k miles, though!!

OK, here is how sadly compulsive and anal I am! I am picking up my new 987S on March 27th. I already have an appointment on Saturday, April 1st for its first oil change ($110). Pretty sad, I know!

[MNBoxster]

Originally Posted by bmussatti

OK, here is how sadly compulsive and anal I am! I am picking up my new 987S on March 27th. I already have an appointment on Saturday, April 1st for its first oil change ($110). Pretty sad, I know!

Hi,

That is pretty compulsive especially as the Engine is pretty well broken-in by the time you get it (not so the Tranny), so there's much less chance of getting the traditional metal shavings in the initial Oil supply. But, if it gives you peace of mind, well go for it.

But, after this, remember, that several long-term studies indicate that more Engine wear occurs on Brand New Oil than Oil which has seasoned. As counter-intuitive as this sounds, Lab study of Oil samples finds that metal content peaks in the 1st 3k mi. and then tapers off to 10k mi. Your next change should be between 8500 and 10k mi. - this is the best thing for your new motor...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

[Biz-z Z]

Originally Posted by MNBoxster

... But, after this, remember, that several long-term studies indicate that more Engine wear occurs on Brand New Oil than Oil which has seasoned. As counter-intuitive as this sounds, Lab study of Oil samples finds that metal content peaks in the 1st 3k mi. and then tapers off to 10k mi. Your next change should be between 8500 and 10k mi. - this is the best thing for your new motor...

That is counter intuitive. I have always thought that the fresher the oil, the better protection I would have. As the oil became more "seasoned" its protective properties would slowly degrade until the protection approached minimal standards, at which time an oil change was recommended.

Is there some advantage in changing the oil between 8500 and 10K as opposed to the Porche's recommended time table?

Would your recommendation be the same for someone who drives say 4-5000 miles per season (May through Oct) and then puts the car away until the following season?

Thanks.

[deliriousga]

Originally Posted by Biz-z Z

That isIs there some advantage in changing the oil between 8500 and 10K as opposed to the Porche's recommended time table?

Thanks.

Personally, I don't believe so. I change mine between 11K-15K miles every time. I have my wife let me know when it hits the 10K mark then I change it the next time I have the opportunity which has always been 11K-15K miles. I send the oil out for analysis and it passes with flying colors. The comments are usually in the order of "the oil is in great condition with the readings well within the limits" or "with readings like this, your engine should last a very long time", etc.

[MNBoxster]

Originally Posted by Biz-z Z

That is counter intuitive. I have always thought that the fresher the oil, the better protection I would have. As the oil became more "seasoned" its protective properties would slowly degrade until the protection approached minimal standards, at which time an oil change was recommended.

Is there some advantage in changing the oil between 8500 and 10K as opposed to the Porche's recommended time table?

Would your recommendation be the same for someone who drives say 4-5000 miles per season (May through Oct) and then puts the car away until the following season?

Thanks.

Hi,

Yes it is surprising. The Test was conducted by Ford Motor Co., Blackstone Laboratories, and ConocoPhillips, and reported in SAE Technical Paper 2003-01-3119. The Test Samples were drawn from a Street-driven Car with 35k mi. on the engine. The Samples were analyzed for Viscosity, TBN (Total Base Number - a measure of Acid combatting Additives), Wear Metals and Insoluables (solids). After each Oil change, the Wear Metals rose significantly for the 1st 3 1000k mi. samples drawn, indicating greater Engine wear. Also, it was found that topping up the Oil after a Filter-Only change every 5k mi. refreshed the Oil for another 5k mi. Turns out that the Chronic every 3,000 miles Oil Changers are actually doing more harm than good to their Engines.

With Modern Oils, a Change has much less to do with the Oil's Lubricating properties than with flushing the Dirt, Acid, and Moisture from the Engine. The Oil is made to trap these things and hold them in suspension. Moisture and Acid are combustion by-products while the Dirt is mainly composed of Carbon and what the Air Filter passed into the Engine. This is why I wouldn't go over 10k mi. - not good to have that stuff floating around.

But, for a Seasonal Car, the Oil should be changed just prior to hibernating the Car for the season. This is because the moisture will evaporate out of the Oil and condense on the Engine Internals causing corrosion and pitting. You should change the Oil and run the Car less than 15 min. before shutting it down. I put no more than 4k mi. on all my Fun Cars during the driving season here in Minnesota before changing it at the end of the season. It kills me to dump all that premium Synthetic Oil, but that's the price of admission...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

[Brucelee]

Jim is right. With a QUALITY synthetic, the optimum mile change is about 7500-10K. miles.

The other issue is time. I would change the oil at least yearly or as Jim says, just before a winter sleep.

Having said that, I change the oil in my wife's Sub at 5K simply because she does tons of short trips. So, driving habits, like how hard you hammer your Box, is another factor to consider.

Cool topic.

More on www.bobistheoilguy.com.

[Brucelee]

http://neptune.spacebears.com/cars/stories/oil-life.html

Here is a very interesting side by side between M1 and Amsoil.

[Brucelee]

From the study above. Notice the metal wear actually declines in this study as the engine gets older. Specualtion is that the engine is actually breaking in during this initial 20K miles.



Mile F1000 -- James Ashbaucher, December 27, 2004.
Oil/Vehicle miles: 1,030 / 46,000
Oil added after sample: none

There remains a lot of debate about the cause of the initial surge in wear metals in our samples. To help learn something about that, we've taken a sample at the 1,000-mile mark in our flush oil, and we plan on taking a sample again when we drain the flush oil at 3,000 miles. Early on, though, the level of wear metals looks promising -- just a fraction of what we saw last time we tested Mobil 1, even with nearly identical viscosity.

Mile F3000 -- James Ashbaucher, January 28, 2005.
Oil/Vehicle miles: 2,995 / 47,995
Oil added after sample: none

How about that -- in the ensuing mileage, the wear metals doubled! We saw the same thing with copper in the Amsoil test, but to have it double across the board is a first. Of course, it's worth noting that the absolute values remain miniscule -- among the lowest ever recorded in the course of the study.

Notice how each time we change the oil, there is still an initial spike of wear metals, but the spike is smaller at each phase. We are working on a hypothesis: that the true break-in of an engine is at least 20,000 miles, and that, perhaps, during the first year of an engine's use it would be wise to change more frequently, and only start moving toward extended oil changes once the engine is older. It'll be interesting to see what comes up in the Mobil 1 re-test phase.

[deliriousga]

Originally Posted by MNBoxster

It kills me to dump all that premium Synthetic Oil, but that's the price of admission...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

A small price to pay for the joy it brings.

Great point for the seasonal driver Jim. Don't forget that once a year if you're not putting the miles on it.

That site Brucelee referenced is fantastic!

[Biz-z Z]

Originally Posted by MNBoxster

...But, for a Seasonal Car, the Oil should be changed just prior to hibernating the Car for the season. This is because the moisture will evaporate out of the Oil and condense on the Engine Internals causing corrosion and pitting. You should change the Oil and run the Car less than 15 min. before shutting it down. I put no more than 4k mi. on all my Fun Cars during the driving season here in Minnesota before changing it at the end of the season. It kills me to dump all that premium Synthetic Oil, but that's the price of admission...

Your are converting me. So for your seasonal toy, it's change the oil at the end of the season even though it has less than, say, 8,500 on the clock. Ok. How about when you bring the car out in the following year? Drive off and enjoy until the end of the season or 8,500-10,000, which ever comes first?

Thanks.

p.s Please list your home address so I can send you a blank check. I feel I should be paying for this education.

[Brucelee]

If it were me, I would NOT swap the oil out come Spring, UNLESS, the car had many periods of running without completely warming up over the winter time. Then I would be concerned about the oil.

Then again, if you knew you were going to do that, you would fill with cheap dino oil for the winter and then back to M1 in the Spring.

IMHO!

[deliriousga]

Originally Posted by Biz-z Z

So for your seasonal toy, it's change the oil at the end of the season even though it has less than, say, 8,500 on the clock. Ok. How about when you bring the car out in the following year? Drive off and enjoy until the end of the season or 8,500-10,000, which ever comes first?

That's the ticket.

The contaminates in the oil also cause it to become acidic when it sits, so you should definitely change it when the car goes into hibernation regardless of the mileage. Drive out the door in the Spring and change it at the mileage you want or hibernation the next year, whichever comes first.

[MNBoxster]

Originally Posted by deliriousga

That's the ticket.

The contaminates in the oil also cause it to become acidic when it sits, so you should definitely change it when the car goes into hibernation regardless of the mileage. Drive out the door in the Spring and change it at the mileage you want or hibernation the next year, whichever comes first.

Hi,

What he said... But to add, it's best to put the Car away and not to start it through the off-season. Serves no purpose except to contaminate the Fresh Oil...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99