Advice for my winter project
 

I have a 2000 'S' with 57k miles. I'll be doing my IMS this winter (soon) and wanted advice on the clutch. I figure while in there I'll do the clutch and was going to order the 3 piece clutch kit from either Porsche or Sachs (figure they are about the same) but then it occurred to me maybe I should see what needs to be replaced before I spend the money on the kit. If the pressure plate and throw-out bearing are good should I replace them just to to make sure I have the newest revisions of the hardware or is that a waste. I don't drive more then 3000 miles a year so not like the car gets a lot of use. The clutch seems fine now.

Thanks.

Just my opinion but at 57K miles if I was going in to change the IMS I'd pony up for the entire clutch kit while you have all of that disassembled. Whenever doing a clutch job the TO bearing is a given, I'd do the slave cylinder too.

IMS, RMS, complete clutch, CV boots.

It is enough trouble to get things apart, why not get all these common failure items at once as you are at the perfect mileage for renewal.

This will probably be a $3000+ job altogether.

I get as much wear on the pressure plate where the T/O bearing contacts it as wear to the disc. Get the Sachs 3-piece kit & have flywheel & pressure plate balanced, that's the biggest source of imbalance in the engine. ;)

If you're doing the IMS, you might as well do the RMS (its relatively cheap and its right there).

I'd leave the CV boots alone unless you have a problem or reason to do something.

I'd suggest using the Sachs clutch 3-pc kit. Works great. I'd also suggest a single mass light weight flywheel (Aasco) to replace the stock dual mass unit that is probably just about worn out at $57K miles. Do a search on the LWFW becuase there is some difference of opinion on using it with regard to damping of engine vibrations. All I can say is that I've had no problems whatsoever.

Are you doing the clutch yourself, or is someone else doing it?
FWIW, I replaced mine last year at 142,000 miles. It was the original, stock clutch, etc, and everything- FW, PP, clutch - had more miles to go. I replaced b/c I wanted to go with the LWFW and a stronger clutch. Anyway, my point is that if you are doing it yourself, do the dis-assembly before ordering any parts. See how things look inside and base your decision on that. My RMS had a light "velveting" around it, but was otherwise dry. I left it alone - it can be a gamble that an new seal will be any better. I left the IMS alone as well. It had no signs of leaking, etc, and with the mileage I figure things would have gone south already if I had a bad one.

I did the IMS, RMS and Clutch replacement while taking the transmission out for rebuild out in the Spring of 2010, my thoughts: Definitely do the entire Sachs Clutch kit, $335 shipped from ebay, I would personally do the IMS retrofit from LN Engineering while it is literally right in front of you (you'll likely recoup this money on resale, I did), the RMS is another animal, I did mine but not sure If I would of done it again. The one in my car was replaced ~9k miles prior and was not leaking, I replaced it while there but not sure I would do that again, JMO. Test your flywheel for deflection, if within spec clean nit up with a palm sander and put it back in. Good luck......Mark.

My Write-Up: IMS, RMS, Tranny R & R Tips - RennTech.org Forums

Thank you everyone, you guys are all really helpful. Gives me a bunch to consider. I wasn't aware ebay had the Sachs kit for amount, that would be great. I can get the genuine porsche one (same stuff I know) for $560 but $335 is a big savings. The CV boots are new so i can skip that. Well let me keep doing my homework.

Hey Mike, you know way more about these cars than I do. That said, I don't understand why you would recommend doing CV boots without knowing the condition of them. It's not like they have anything to do with the clutch, RMS or IMS. What gives? What am I missing?

I did my IMS, Clutch job spring of 2010 with 39k miles, at that time I inspected the CV boots and they were all fine. The PPI performed by the buyer fall of 2011 with 42k miles showed 3 of the 4 CV boots were split and in need of replacing. They fail with age along with usage, it's a "while you're there" job done much more easily with the tranny dropped.

not to speak for mikefocke, but i think in general 60k is a reasonable amount of mileage to expect from the cv boots (especially the S) and since the car will be in the air and most of the stuff connected to the cv boots loose or removed, the cv boots should be an easier job to do than try to eke out a couple more miles.

my boots lasted around 75 on the base model.

The CV joint boots in a 6-speed (recall the OP has an S model) fail earlier than those on a TIP or 5-speed due to the differing angles associated with the transmissions and the half shafts and the additional stress on the boots.

Do you have to do them at the same time...no. But sure would be easier to get to them once the transmission is out of the car.

Figuring out what preventative maintenance to do and when is an imprecise thing. I've both over and under maintained in my time.

Christmas day update...
 

Weather has been warm in Charlotte still so I had perfect temps to dive into my project. I've really enjoyed it so far, it's like opening up a hidden world and seeing what I'll find. I'll likely be replacing a lot of parts though probably not necessary. Anyone that has talked with me on the forum knows I'm a little OCD about things. Everything that has come off the car has been cleaned up and is all shiny and when it comes to replacing things I'm the type that replaces everything before it breaks, in fact so little has been repaired on this car in the last 12 years it is amazing. My list of preventative repairs/maintenance is very long. Some observations:

- Worst part of the job...jacking the car up! Ya you can all laugh. It's 20inches off ground which is enough to work comfortably.
- CV boots recently repaired by previous owner.
- Slave cylinder will be replaced, it might be fine but the rubber area is tired and the pin keeps falling out, probably normal but now is an easy time.
- The little plastic thing that hold the throwout clip is cracked, I might have done it by accident.
- Clutch disk seems pretty worn though I'm not sure what the wear rate is on these so it could have lasted much long maybe, donno. I'll compare it to the new one when I get it an see.
- Pressure plate and throwout bearing seem fine but again I'm in there. If I didn't have the money, I wouldn't replace them, I'll help stimulate the economy.
- The car has had two leaky spots on the oil fill tube, NOW is the time to do it and it still will be a pain. It has made a sticky mess of the right side of engine.
- Flywheel seems fine, though I'm not sure how one does the flex test, it does have some spring left in it but I'm not sure it is twist-able, what am I missing here?
- My two forward O2 sensors had been replaced by previous owner, I might do the back, to be honest that right side connector is not easy to reach with the transmission in. I could change the other three in 20 minutes with transmission in but that back right one I think would be a pain imo.
- The AOS is right in front of me, I do get Porsche parts at cost + 10%, might stimulate economy a little more :).
- RMS...well it appeared to only be oozing maybe a tiny tiny bit, I know I'll get different views on replacing this. I'll probably do it just because I like the experience and I'm guessing mine is not the most up to date one.
- IMS...no leaks...cover still on. Will update ones I get the cover off. It's a double row.

Here a some pics after I cleaned off the break dust. The worst dust had gathered in a triangle from the RMS down...as mentioned just a tiny bit pasty.

Once I finish the job I'll post all costs of the total job, including all the wonderful tools I always wanted to add to my collection.

Cheers!

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Whip,
If yours is a double row bearing, will you send me the old one if I pay for shipping?
Also here is a suggestion on the RMS, if you roll the spring out of the seal carefully, unscrew the spring, cut 2mm off the big side of the spring, screw it back together, and carefully roll it back into place it will make for a tighter seal around the crankshaft.
Happy holidays

Guess I need to see what you are talking about, not familiar with this at all!

Thanks for taking the time to post all your experiences here. I'm thinking of doing this job myself, but not sure how much I want to invest in special tools.

I will try and get you some pics of this today.

Hey no problem...some of the special tools I've made myself. I'll keep you posted...going to go play 9 holes then replace the oil fill tube and the RMS. Might also get the cover off the IMS and see what shape it's in.

Only got the RMS done tonight. Interesting project. I measured the existing one while in and it was between 10 and 12mm from the crank, it wasn't consistent. Made a little tool that would measure about 13mm. Bentley says to insert a little more then 11m so it hits a fresh surface on the crank. From the pictures below it can be seen that there is some surface to work with both on the crank and the block.

Some more thoughts and observations for those learning along with me and for those with more knowledge to comment on:

- The new seal has extra ridges on the outside, the inside (crank side) seems to have some extra ridges also and is just slightly different in design (see 3rd pic). If you are all familiar with the ridged seals that go under external doors in your house it kind of reminds me of that.
- While putting the new one on, make sure it goes on the crank side properly, it is easy to flop it over and do it wrong. I was reading elsewhere today where someone had that problem, I immediately saw what they were talking about....however once on it will be OK, Turn it back and forth a little and you'll see.
- I see why the shops have a special tool, these seals are squirmy little buggers, while gently tapping in they like to seat quickly on one outside edge and not the other. Before you go too far start over. Get it started on the outside edge completely before starting to tap it in past the point of no return. This happens because they are ridged and the fit is tight...well at least it seems that way to me.
- I used a little soft piece of wood to tap around and around to get it most of the way, then I used a perfect fitting piece of PVC to get it to the right depth. Since they do like to go in easier on one side then the other I generally used the PVC to just work the section that was not being so nice. In the end it was a perfect 13mm from crank side in. I will say that extra 2mm is very noticeable on the outside edge.
- Take your time, I can see it would be easy to seat it in too far.
- As a beginner on this it is amazes me that crank can spin on this for so long and not leak more. Also I'm not surprised that they ooze a little. I also can see how leaks could form.

Think I'll do the nasty messy oil fill tube next. My parts guy had that part handy, said they have to replace them all the time. Not a lot of room to get at it, but I"ll ******************** and gripe a bunch and get it done. Then do my best to clean up what only a few hundred drops can do over 57k miles...dirt magnets.

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I was looking at the old seal and there is was the spring you are talking about. I didn't happen to look on the new seal before I put it in so I'm not sure how it can be made smaller (other then what you explain)...pretty cool idea though.

Update
 

So last night and this afternoon were an adventure!

- Last night I managed to get the AOS out, I figured I would stimulate the economy and put a new one in while everything was out of car. Not sure if others found this job easy but I didn't and I had total access. The easy off hoses didn't behave, I've found with them you have to catch them just right and they do come off easy...I guess practice helps. I have to hand it to anyone that did this from the top of the car and reaching up from the bottom.
I wonder what happens to these when they fail...anyone know what actually goes wrong. So anyway if anyone needs an AOS with 57k miles on it I'll sell it cheap...for all I know it could have plenty of miles left on it.

- Also last night I finally removed my leaky oil fill tube...this is the worst job I have ever done. I assume there is a tool that releases the hose clamps that makes it much easier. Now that I have done one though I'm sure it would not be very bad next time. This tube has been the source of the minor oil drip.

- Now for the interesting part, this after noon I got my LN Engineering bearing and pulling kit. I went slow making sure everything was done correctly and I still think I messed up. I had to rotate the crank 360 degrees again to get the exhaust cam rotated 180 degrees so the tool to hold it in place would seat properly. No big deal there. Got the cover off the IMS and started the removal process. So I'm pulling out my double row and having to torque so much it just didn't feel right...then pop! Not the good pop, the center bolt in the bearing at it's weak point had snapped off! At this point fear and concern set in. Took a break made some calls, did some reading and went back to see what can be done. The LN kit also contains an "Easy Out" nut that takes a little work to get setup but it is very clever. The quality of the LN kit is really good, I'm glad I got it. I started over and crossed my fingers, my pride was on the line this time. So I torque it up good and was taking a 30 second mental break when I heard a little 'click' sound. I think the wire-loc had given out at this point because things started moving! So long story long...the bearing is out and it is time for a drink! I talked to a guy at LN and he said he had never heard of the center bolt breaking like that.
I think what happen is the center bolt fell inside the shaft before i started and probably never seated back correctly I was probably pulling on it at an angle...live and learn.

Here is a pic of the bearing, the center bolt, and Easy Out. It amazes me these double rows ever fail, they seem really well made.

One other thing, there was over a pint of old crappy nasty smelly oil in the ims tube. I assume it comes in from the other end.

Cheers.http://986forum.com/forums/uploads01...1325207775.jpg
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Good work. So whats the condition of the old bearing? Loose? Rough? Ball and race condition? Seal condition?

Nice work, How many miles on the bearing?

Everything about the bearing, center bolt, and seals were like new. The IMS did NOT need to be done imho. It was fun though and I'm glad I got in there and am updating so many parts (IMS, RMS, Clutch, ASO, Oil fill tube, Clutch Slave, and cracked under panel). The clutch slave is working but in poor condition so I'm glad that is getting changed.

I certainly don't know the condition of the inside of the bearing, that will take analysis.

I amazed at what good condition parts have been on this car. I did the water pump and engine mount and they were in great shape too. The engine mount had a small crack forming and it was time to change it.

It's interesting how some Boxsters have a good amount of parts wear out. The guy that owned this before me only changed the oil every 10 to 15k miles. There were times it sat for years without an oil change.

No regrets, I bought the car to have something to work on and bring back to life both visually and mechanically. As I'm finding though most components have held up great.

Oh 57k on bearing...

I think I found the double wide ceramic bearing.....
MR5204C-2RS/C3 NB2 | Boca Bearings - Boca Raton, FL

I'll measure both of mine...original and LN.

Need some help. Can't get the transmission back in. I know this shouldn't be so hard. I was hoping to have everything back together and on my way again by Tuesday :(. I realize these things are always easy the second time so I understand the first time can be hard.

Here is my situation:

I kept my flywheel and put in a new clutch, pressure plate, and throwout bearing. I was putting the transmission back in tonight with my Dad and we couldn't get it in far enough to get the bolts to grab all the way around.

I had my new slave cylinder in already and figured maybe the throwout bearing was pushing on the pressure plate so I removed the slave, no difference.

We were able to get a couple bolts started but then the others don't reach enough to grab. I could tell I had the input shaft into the clutch because when I turned the crank I saw the transmission spin the drives.

We did everything and couldn't get it in far enough so decided to drop things out and make sure we weren't messing something up.

So here is the weird part, the input shaft clearly made it into the pilot bearing because I could see the bearing marks on the shaft lithium grease. So we are thinking is the input shaft out from the transmission too far, or is my flywheel not in correctly. So I measured the following:

- The input shaft is 5/16 below the edge of the transmission.
- The pilot bearing is only 3/16 further out from the engine then where transmission mounts to the engine .

This gives me 2/16 which is a perfect fit, yet I could never get the engine closer then 1 inch from the engine.

This doesn't add up! How do I have pilot bearing marks on the shaft if I still have an inch to go?!! It also felt to us like the transmission wasn't going in far enough because it was pivoting on something. Again remember I saw pilot bearing grease marks on the shaft, so it really was like I had reached bottom.

I'll go measure everything again.

Is there too much grease in the pilot bearing? It will sorta hydrolock the input shaft.

I'll double check but I don't think so. Put only a thin layer on. Have your transmissions slid back in pretty easy? With an inch left to pull the two together I shouldn't see any bearing marks on the shaft...so weird :(.

Side question (so I can make sure flywheel is on right), I assume the starter teeth should not be linked into the flywheel, I'm guessing when the starter engages it moves toward the teeth of the flywheel...no?

I'll even take pictures with better light.

I've read where others had problems but the got enough bolts in top and bottom to pull things together.

When you say bearing marks... are they scratched into the input shaft or just grease marks? No the starter should not be engaged.
Stick a pencil in the pilot bearing hole, mark it and compare it to the tip of the input shaft length.
Usually the trans will go right on if everything is lined up, also that starter might be an issue.

I'll go look closely again. The marks were nice clean lines in the grease from when we pulled the trans back out, no scratching. Yes I agree based on my measurements it should slide right back in. First timers luck.

I would loosen the clutch pressure plate and realign the disc. I've had this happen when the disc isn't perfectly centered, even using an alignment tool. Also, DO NOT try and pull up the gap with the mounting bolts, you'll break whatever is interferring.

What he said, DO NOT try to draw it in with the bolts. I installed my transmission twice, once it slid in like butter, the next time took nearly 2 hours of wiggling / wrestling with it. If it were me, I'd pull it back out, recenter the splines with the alignment tool, turn the input shaft a tad and try again. She'll go in eventually.

Thanks guys...ya we didn't pull but a small amount, I told my Dad this didn't make sense so we dropped it back out. I was thinking it should be butter if the stars are aligned right. It is good to know sometimes it is hard and sometimes easy because the point it is should just slide right in.

OK here are some pics. Quick question, should I be able to turn the clutch disc at all or is the light pressure on it from pressure plate enough to cause a small amount of friction. I'll pull pressure plate back off just to be safe and redo.

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Sorry answered this question...had my thoughts backwords.

Hey guys, believe I have found the error of my ways! It isn't in yet but I took the day and did other things then took a more relaxed look at things. I'm actually glad it didn't go in because I made a rookie mistake.

Once I get it in and running I'll give an up and post all my parts and costs.

The double row that came out of mine had the following measurements:

24mm deep
48mm total diameter
21mm inner race diameter

Note - The new bearing had to be less then 20mm because the spiroclip is put in after the bearing goes in where as the original has the clip groove on the bearing it's self.

Measuring to just the grove on the depth is 20mm.

Hope this helps. You can make more accurate measurements once you get it. I'm keeping it in one piece so the grease can be analyzed.

Good Thinking. When I was running into difficulties getting my tranny in the second time I was fit to be tied, walked away until the next day and it went right in.