Internal engine damage to my boxter 2001
 

My car has been running perfectly until yesterday!

I saw a huge cloud of smoke behind me, pulled over and the engine started to run roughly. Had it taken to my mechanics shop and they told me the motor has internal damage, it can't be identified without pulling the engine out to determine the problem.

Options given:
Buy rebuilt engine from Porsche dealer - $18,000
Find good used engine for approx $6,000
Pull engine and determine problem $1,600 - X? for fixing , if fixable
Sell car for parts, buy new vehicle

My car is a 2001 Boxter, 110,000km, excellent condition, serviced regularly, I've owned it for 4,000 km (almost brand new)

What to do??? I think there are many very knowledgeable people on this forum, some thoughts suggests would be welcome :(

How do they know there's internal damage? What's their diagnosis? Does the engine still run when you start it? It could be a failed AOS for all you know?

Unless they pulled the oil and filter, and/or removed the sump cover and confirmed internal damage, I'd start by find another shop; one that has some idea what they are doing............

The car still starts and runs (well enough to get onto the flat bed by it's own power) but it is rough and there is a huge amount of white smoke (I assume it means water) - the mechanic believes it is D-chunk, which he attributes to flaws in the 2.5 and 2.7 engine casings, but I don't think he has done any exploratory beyond starting it up and plugging it in, so far.

Thoughts on engine options...

Option 1: Used Donor (eBay or equivalent) Engine This is the cheapest route - simply replace the engine you have with another used engine and do a 60K service to get the car back on the road. Future reliability is unknown and you may be right back where you are now (needing an engine replacement) in anywhere from 10K-100K miles. Obviously 10K miles would be a bummer and 100K miles would be awesome - but no one can say for sure which it will be. $3K-$6K.

Option 2: Refreshed Engine Some shops call them "refreshed" or even "certified pre-owned" and some sellers will even call them "rebuilt" even though they are not really rebuilt. But this option will generally consist of a used engine that has good compression as-is with maybe new timing chain/guides, a new water pump and/or alternator, new thermostat, and a 60K service. Be sure to check which exact parts are new/replaced because it varies. Again, you may be right back where you are now in anywhere from 10K-100K miles. $4K-$10K with higher priced engines having fewer original miles and/or add'l components replaced and/or coming from better known shops.

Option 3. Rebuilt/Remanufactured Engine A remanufactured engine where the engine is rebuilt to meet the original spec's, mostly using OEM parts. This is a classic rebuilt engine. Some engines may have updates like IMS/RMS but you'll need to specifically check . This option should give you ~100K miles of service but the reliability is (again) completely dependent on the engine builder and the extent and quality of the updates installed to address reliability issues. Likely to have a warranty of some kind so be sure to check the warranty details. $8K-$12K. Higher priced engines have more high quality parts/updates and/or come from better known shops.

Option 4. High End Fully Rebuilt The engine is rebuilt from the ground up with lots of new parts and all upgrades. Buyer may be able to specify some build details as desired. Engine is probably better than anything coming straight out of the factory brand new. Shops that do this work are top-end and their business relies on a good repuatation. Should expect ~100K+ miles but check the warranty details. $12K-$22K. This will give you the most peace of mind (and maybe the highest performance) but it comes at a cost. Be aware that you may not get 100% of the engine cost back in resale value but that really depends on the buyer.

In summary, only you can decide which path is right for you and depends on how long you expect to keep the car, how much you love the car, how much money you are willing to spend, etc, etc.

There are a couple of well known issues that cause non terminal smoking; the most common is a failed AoS. This can be checked by simply starting the car and trying to remove the oil filler cap with it running: if it is very difficult to remove, the AoS has crapped out and can be replaced for a couple hundred bucks. It could also be a failed head gasket, also non terminal.

You need to get some facts before your wallet gets emptied or more damge is done………

Good suggestion but he might just as well be a "promoter" . . . :rolleyes:

With the known potentially catastrophic failures of these motors, no mechanic or flatbed operator in their right mind would risk causing further damage (and possibly be held responsible for such) by running the thing, let alone under heavy load to get it onto a flatbed. That's why they have winches and tow hooks . . .

He could easily check for a bad AOS by just pulling the J-tube at this point and not starting the engine (possibly causing catastrophic hydroloc) to test filler cap.

So, either he's a "promoter" (and yes everyone knows what I mean by that) or someone whose really in for a wallet draining w/ this mechanic.

Good luck and if these problems are real, definitely start by getting a new mechanic... one who knows what the heck they are doing :)

Ok, maybe I am the only person who didn't know what a "promoter" was, so I looked it up and this seems to be the general job description:

As a forum promoter for our company you would post threads about our products and special offers in online forums of your choice. Salary will be paid based on the amount of reviews and replies a given thread receives. Our top promoters usually earn $200 - $300 a month.

We require our promoters to post at least 8 threads per month. In order to avoid being banned from forums for self-promotion it will also be necessary to post products from other websites and maybe engage a little in the community.

you are not alone, learn something everyday, never heard about this till now. DANG

Thank you everyone - all input is appreciated, I am talking to some other shops and exploring my options...one thing I was told is that the 2.5 and 2.7 engines have been problematic - has anyone had any experience with installing the 3.2 engine as a replacement? I understand that it requires updating the computer as well...

Before planning on replacing this engine, make sure it really needs replacing first………

Who's a forum promoter? I need that job.

i think you have to read between the lines on the promotor statement - it's a veiled shot at Jake.

re the op, i think you've been had by your shop. throw a cookie-sized piece of the cylinder wall into the cylinder and your car will do more than run rough and blow smoke. and from what i know, d-chuck was only a problem in the earlier engines.

do your research; jfp has given you some very sound advise. if you want to swap your engine regardless, that's a different thread.

It's premature to start thinking about replacement engines when you really don't know what's going on with yours. These are failed AOS symptoms and this should be the first place you look. +1 about getting another mechanic's opinion. For someone to throw around terms like "D chunk" without first digging into it and confirming where the issues are is bad IMO.

Steve
2000 2.7L

Agreed. I've moved the car to another Porsche shop which thought it sounded like an AOS issue, I won't know until next week, but it will be a huge relief if that is the problem.

Thank you again for the good input

Call Jake Raby. He knows what he talking about.

In paralell with having your engine further checked, do your own research and learn everything you can. An easy place to start is at Wayne's Pelican Parts website which has a great technical article about engine swaps/upgrade compatibility:

http://www.pelicanparts.com/techarticles/Boxster_Tech/11-ENGINE-911_Engine_Swap/11-ENGINE-911_Engine_Swap.htm

I'm sure he already has . . .

hardly seems worth the effort.

Not at all familiar with the "promoter" label, but I don't see how it would be possible to have as many posts as you do & not be aware of the excellant reputation of JFP in PA. His frequent posts are as helpful as anyone's on this forum. :)

100% agree, JFP in PA has an EXCELLENT reputation and is a very valuable member of the forum.

:cheers:

Looks like we have a few more vendor haters in the forum.. Thats fine by me, I've learned how to use those stabs as positive energy for my program.

Anyway, this "promoter" says that nothing has been posted to date that proves this issue is anything more than a failed AOS. I believe the shop doing this work may not have the direct experience with enough of these cars not to go straight to the AOS as the culprit and then go from there.

At the tail end of last year we saved an engine for a person who posted on the forum with the exact same symptoms, he thought the engine was gone and he was ready to buy my reconstructed solution, but we saved his engine and he didn't have to..

Get several other opinions on this before you do ANYTHING other than change the AOS.

That said, no one has called me with these symptoms in several weeks, so I do not believe this person has reached out to us as of yet..

location location
 

Jake the original poster is in vancouver bc canada , which is about 2800 mi from your location,

no its wait and see time till he posts an update with the diagnosis

The end of the story...
 

As a number of you suspected, it turned out to be the AOS - much to my HUGE relief!

After writing into the forum and doing some research, I called a second shop that I have dealt with over the years. After hearing my description of what happened, they immediately concluded it was the AOS, they said 90% of the time that is what it is. I took it them, they have repaired it, and I am back on the road with it running perfectly!

Jake, I hope that you are right that the smaller shop simply didn't have the experience.
But after doing the research and calling them back, I asked if it could possibly be anything else and they were adamant that it could not (at which point I had it picked up). However, they were very keen to sell me a Boxter for $18,000, (a car the same year as mine that had had the same "issue" ), they had placed an S engine in it. They would make me a deal on my car for parts – in the neighbourhood of $2,500 – would have been a sweet deal for them, with a $150 replacement part!

I thank you all again for your invaluable input :cheers:

good news. please feel free to post the name of the company that tried to do you wrong, as there are a number of us in BC who would benefit from this info. you can PM me if you don't wish to make it public, but sharing info like this is one of the reasons we gather in this forum.

Porsche shops in Vancouver, BC
 

This forum has helped me so I would like to give back...

My car has been serviced by MCL for 95% of it's life, they are great, but expensive.

In search of a more affordable alternative I had Jakobs High Performance Porsche Specialists (North Vancouver) do my 96K service. When I had this AOS issue at 110,000km I had the car taken to them... there in began the nightmare diagnosis that lead to my posts on this site.

So, I gave Stuart at Wiessach a call, they had serviced my BMW 635 CSI many years before, and despite the fact they were backed up in service by almost two weeks, they took my car in on Friday pm and had it back to me Tuesday morning after a long weekend.


I hope this information is helpful to others in future!

Good news on the AOS (compared to an engine replacement) and thanks for following up to let us know how it turned out. :cheers:

White smoke
 

I have an '01 with 110k on it and it started smoking and running rough .We replaced the AOS and no better running.There was no water in the oil and it was due for an oil change thus we changed the oil only to fin d out upon filling with fresh oil it running onto garage floor.We found a cracked filler hose between remote filler and the block .We replaced the hose and car runs like new. Good luck.

We shipped a car back to an area about 100 miles from the OP's location two weeks ago... After you have provided specialized services for vehicles from Russia, everything else seems pretty "local" thats on the North American Continent.

Glad to see that this was the AOS, unfortunately a large number of people that don't enlist the proper shops to carry out work on their M96 powered Porsche buy new engines when they really don't need them only because of a 150.00 part.