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Old 12-27-2010, 06:41 PM   #1
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IMS in car repair on any 2006

I am looking at buying a nice 2006 with only 27K miles. It has a build date of 10-05. Do any early 2006 cars still have the ability to replace the IMS bearing on the car without engine teardown ?

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Old 12-28-2010, 01:51 AM   #2
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According to the LN Engineering IMS upgrade page:
http://www.lnengineering.com/ims.html

According to PET, here are the engine numbers for single or double row bearings* up until late 2005 then 2006 and later engines which received a larger, non-servicable single row bearing. *Courtesy of Scott Slauson http://www.softronic.us.

Boxster: Double Row: up to 651 12851 (M96.22) up to 671 11237 (M96.21)

Single Row: from 651 12852 (M96.22) from 671 11238 (M96.21)

996: Double Row: up to 661 14164

Single Row: from 661 14165

HINT: WE DO NOT RECOMMEND RELYING ON ENGINE NUMBERS ALONE TO IDENTIFY WHICH TYPE OF IMS YOU HAVE

***(WooHoo, my 100th post)***

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Old 12-28-2010, 05:04 AM   #3
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I have a mid-October 2005 build and would guess it has the single row bearing. Supposedly, the transition took place in mid-October on the engine assembly line but that's not etched in stone. A fellow on another board that has a 2006 Cayman S had some engine work done and found out his November build car had the single row bearing when they were in the engine.

The only way you'd know is to drop the tranny and look at the size of the bolt on the flange holding the bearing.
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Old 12-28-2010, 05:17 AM   #4
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I'll have to check the build date, but my '06 has a (M96.25) 616 06468 engine code. But, as mentioned, I guess the code is no gaurantee.
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Old 12-28-2010, 09:12 AM   #5
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Charles said

in a note to me October 4th in a discussion that began on the subject of what year of car would be best to buy if you were planning to immediately do the IMSR

"The MY02-05 should be a single row bearing, but like I have on there(we were discussing his web site...mike), we have seen some MY05 cars with the new style IMS (MY06-08m, which cannot be serviced because the bearing is a larger diameter than the hole in the rear of the case) and even some with dual row bearings (I donít have an explanation for that!). But being that Iíve only ever seen 3 engines that donít fit the norm, Iím willing to generalize that the MY05 is single row.

Yes, the housing bore in which the bearing resides, along with the casting for the sprocket and IMS flange are significantly different in the MY06-08 cars with the revised (3rd) IMS.

If the IMS has a dual row bearing or smaller single row bearing, both can be serviced with our retrofit kits."
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Old 12-28-2010, 10:34 AM   #6
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Never rely on the numbers.. They are wrong all the time.
One MUSt separate the transaxle from the engine and visually inspect the IMS flange.
if the nut in the center of the flange is 13mm, it can be retrofitted..
If the nut is 22mm reinstall the tranny and hope for the best as nothing can be done.

This is even the case for 2005 MY cars, they can have either bearing.

Also if you didn't buy the car new it could have had an engine replacement post 2006, if this occurred you will have the newer style bearing and can't retrofit the engine. All reman engines post 2006 got the new bearing.
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Old 12-28-2010, 11:55 AM   #7
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What can we do with MY06 and later? Mine serial is M9626 xxxxxxx. Have you seen any 06 and later with IMS issues?
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Old 12-28-2010, 03:59 PM   #8
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Again from LN

For the '06 (assuming it has a rev 3 design) "The last option, our IMS Upgrade, requires engine disassembly and the complete intermediate shaft to be sent in to us to be reconditioned and upgraded with our triple-bearing upgrade."

In other words...drop the engine, crack the case open, remove the complete IMS, ship it, get an upgraded one back, reinstall, etc.
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Old 12-28-2010, 06:42 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lifeisgood
What can we do with MY06 and later? Mine serial is M9626 xxxxxxx. Have you seen any 06 and later with IMS issues?
As Mike stated, nothing can be done shy of a teardown.

Yes, the later bearings are failing, I know of two in the past 3 weeks. When these bearings START to fail, the engine is compromised completely.

Now that 06 MY cars are going to be steadily ending their warranties over the coming year more reports will surface..
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Old 12-28-2010, 09:06 PM   #10
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Thank you all very much. Not sure I understand the series of engine numbers, but I'll find out what engine number is in the car to compair against the list.

BTW, which size bearing is NOT replacable while engine is intact ?
Single ?
Double ?
Something Else ?
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Old 12-29-2010, 04:53 AM   #11
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The non-replaceable unit is the large diameter single row bearing. It has a 22mm retaining nut.
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Old 12-29-2010, 05:30 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jake Raby
The non-replaceable unit is the large diameter single row bearing. It has a 22mm retaining nut.
Jake, Thanks in advance.

Despite the already upgraded to a larger IMS in MY06-08, you still see some failure. What is the comparison between the MY06-08 with your retrofit IMS?

If it need to be tear down the engine to do the retrofit, is it worth it.
Cost wise?

I just bought an 06 boxster S with 2 year CPO. Thinking about retrofit it and keep it for a while or dump it after CPO run out.
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Old 12-29-2010, 06:21 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lifeisgood
Jake, Thanks in advance.

Despite the already upgraded to a larger IMS in MY06-08, you still see some failure. What is the comparison between the MY06-08 with your retrofit IMS?

If it need to be tear down the engine to do the retrofit, is it worth it.
Cost wise?

I just bought an 06 boxster S with 2 year CPO. Thinking about retrofit it and keep it for a while or dump it after CPO run out.
Their isn't a comparison between the two...

Currently MY 06 vehicles are just coming out of warranty, most of the reports we have heard so far of these bearings failing have come from Dealerships that slipped us some info. Now that these can't be swept under the rug as easy the reports should elevate a bit, like they did with the earlier cars.

LN and I have already produced a ceramic bearing for the MY 06, large IMS, it is in testing in a full blown track car.

Cost wise: If I tear into an engine I ONLY fully upgrade it, I refuse to just open it up and swap the IMS, because thats a waste of effort and leaves a dozen more points of possible failure in existence. Prices for a fully upgraded FSI engine start at 16K, (most are 18-20 and can reach 22-25K) but the least of those makes 30HP more than factory and includes installation, assembly by a single Human and dyno optimization.
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Old 12-29-2010, 08:52 AM   #14
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But how is a track car

a test of how a ceramic bearing will perform in the cars we have and the many of us drive?

I recall your comments that cars driven gently (and specifically TIP cars because that transmission's shift patterns promotes low-rev higher-MPG driving) suffer more failures than cars driven at high RPM.

It would seem that a track car would be testing in a very different driving style than the street car norm..or is your car babied around the track at less than 3k RPM? I'd have thought that Atlanta traffic at rush hour would be a better test environment than Road Atlanta.
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Old 12-29-2010, 09:28 AM   #15
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Mike,
More will come in street cars. This one got applied to the track car for many reasons.

We have lots of time, we won't be seeing the majority of these cars equipped with the larger diameter bearing for 2-3 more years.

The larger diameter bearing responds to engine RPM differently.

It is more difficult to carry out development and check up on the larger diameter bearing, since it can't be removed without complete teardown..

At the present, if we update an MY 06 or newer engine, we back date the IMS and use the triple row IMS update, something thats proven.
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Old 12-29-2010, 10:57 PM   #16
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I just found another MY06 with a build date of 8/05. It is a base with Sport Chrono. Would this car be more safe than the 10/05 built car ?
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Old 12-29-2010, 11:27 PM   #17
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Here is another one....2000 S 48k miles with a build date of 11/99. Is this engine safe from the terrible "99 problems ?
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Old 12-30-2010, 02:40 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Idaho Red Rocket 3
Here is another one....2000 S 48k miles with a build date of 11/99. Is this engine safe from the terrible "99 problems ?
Thats probably the better car.. It was built in Germany, too.

These engines are worst for cracked heads, do the IMSR, change out the water pump and it should be a decent driver.
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Old 01-02-2011, 06:17 PM   #19
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We bought the 2000 S for just under 14K. Ran strong the 1000 miles home. Appears to be a well cared for car with 2 previous owners both lived in Phoenix. It has one slight defect. 3 times it idled funny for a few seconds when we came to a stop.

What could that be ?
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Old 01-02-2011, 11:51 PM   #20
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Possibly the throttle body needs cleaning - search is your friend.....

Once you have the car home, you need to go through the maintenance regime - check out Mike Focke's Boxster web page...
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