Ebay headers...updates?
 

So I have seen some threads in the past asking about the cheap 100$ ebay headers... so here is one for anyone who has them and has an update on the performance and quality/longevity.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Porsche-Boxster-986-97-98-99-2-5L-6-2-1-Exhaust-Header-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQfitsZModelQ3aBoxsterQQhashZitem 2c593e64f7QQitemZ190475822327QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fT ruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

that one there is like 85 shipped and for that price it seems so cheap why not try.
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however, what are some of the things that need to be done to the car? does it have to be flashed for ROW in order to not throw codes? what would i need to do to get these into my car and go completely cat-less?

Maybe move to Nevada. You live in the great state of Commiefornia, land of the smog Nazis. Cars with intentionally modified emission controls may be subject to impound. It doesn't happen very often, but it does happen. About 20 cars were towed from a Euro car meet not far from my house a few years ago. Periodic roadside inspection stations also scoop up cars deemed to be "not street legal in California".

well, lucky for me I am not bound to those emission rules. So does anyone have a clue as to if these are good for the job? And after that what needs to be done to the ECU or whatever else to make it run?

What year is your car? 2.5L cars don't require anything extra when switching to headers. If you have a 2.5L then it's a piece of cake. If it's a 2000 or newer good luck.

no unfortunately it is a 2.7 2001. would it require me to just flash it to ROW?

That's one option, but who will do it? The dealer wont. You're not required to do anything....you'll just have a solid CEL on all the time. I've even heard of some people putting tape over the light. Outa sight, outa mind kinda thing.

hmmm... any suggestions? Also what are the benefits and disadvantages for the ROW what does that flash entail.

My suggestion is don't put headers on the car if things like CEL's bother you. You can try messing around with 02 simulaters, relocation of 02 sensors, or ROW flash. The first two options don't work most of the time. The 3rd option is the ROW flash. Don't know much about that because nobody outside of Porsche dealerships that I know of has access to this uber expensive tool and if they do they are not advertising ROW flashes.

thanks for the help. I guess ill start looking for ROW flash solutions.

No problem, sorry it wasn't the answer you were wanting to hear. As far as I'm concerned there is no easy way around this "problem." If you find anybody selling ROW flashes let us know about it.

You don't absolutely need to have the dealer do it. There are indies and private individuals that have access to a PIWIS tester. You should ask Loren over at Renntech, he is very sharp on this stuff and may know who can do this. May be a little bit of a drive from the 831 but its an excuse to go beat on the car a little.

Adam is correct. Unlike the 2.7 and 3.2 engines that utilize four cats (two of which are incorporated into the headers), the 2.5 variant only uses one set that are located further down stream. Therefore, you could conceivably change headers and still have the vehicle remain OBD II compliant. Whether or not a set of $85.00 headers found on on Ebay is the appropriate choice is another question.

Addendum: Now that I see that your vehicle is a 2.7, that raises two immediate concerns. First, by eliminating the oem header/pre-cat set up, your vehicle will no longer be OBD II compliant. Secondly, it was my experience that "going catless" resulted in a significant loss of low end and mid range torque. This has been commented upon in numerous threads.

OK really don't know if this applies, but....I have 04 S I bought the $80 ebay headers over a year ago. put them on - no warning lights- no flash - no loss of power. I also put them previously on my 97 2.5 same results , well actually better because the car ran noticebly better. Still have the same headers on my 04 working perfectly. I did use the ports and put the o2 sensors in. Since then I installed softronic flash and eliminated the cats altogether. no problems. runs great. lots of power.

You're headed down a slippery, somewhat expensive slope, but there are power gains to be had. I've got an 00 S and I've had the Chinese headers on there for 4 years and 60,000 miles. I got CEL's and it took a Softronic reflash last year to eliminate that. The reflash also corrected a lean condition that I got, but only knew about because of taking the car for a dyno test. When I dyno'ed the car, I had the headers, gutted cats, and an EVO intake: 225 HP at the wheels, which put me around 265 flywheel. 15 HP gain isn't too bad, especially for under $400 in parts. Too bad it takes another $750 for the reflash to get things running properly.

What did your power/torque curve look like from low to mid range ?

FWIW, I have a set of the chinese headers sitting on the shelf. All the posts about broken header bolts & minimal power gains dissuaded me from installing them.

THat is a real shame, when I installed it on my 97, I had neither of those problems, if you decide to do it, make sure the engine is cold, sitting overnight, the bolts should come right out. unless someone over torqued them before. the worst thing you might have to do is adjust the holes with a dremel but that's a maybe, I have installed several now and 1 was spot on, 2 needed a slight adjustment and 1 needed more than slight adjustment. You will feel a slight difference in power and it will sound better as well, but only if you take it off your shelf and give it a shot.
Happy Holidays

Did install these on your '97 or '04 ?

I have them on my 97 and my mechanic had no problem installing them. They did give me a nice bump in HP and torque (15 or so) and the Chinese twin chamber exhaust is more throaty than normal.

It was a good mod for me.

see that right there is the reason why. with the 97 as you know has no cats on the headers so no re-flash is needed or aftermarket software. Im glad you are happy with em.. I want to go catless (right now I have only 2 cats headers only) but that software thing will make it tough on me.

Both cars plus on an 01 S (friends)

from the great amount of knowledge that i have amassed from the internet, this is what i think i know:

porsche boxster (other than early 2.5l) has two sets of cats - pre-cats located on the headers, and secondary cats located on the mid pipes.

boxster has two sets of 02 sensors: one set on the headers before any cats to determine efficacy of fuel/air mix, and a second set after the pre- ats on the headers to ensure that the cats are working.

if you put headers on that do not have cats you have four options:

1) live with the cel you get from the second set of 02 sensors telling the computer that the cats are not working.

2) extend the second set of 02 sensors (two wires each) to a location after the secondary cats on the mid pipes. this way the computer will still know you have cats in the exhaust system.

3) fool the o2 sensors. a quick seach will provide several options. if in the us of a you can buy 'foolers' (maxspeed motorsport sell a set, as should most entry-level autoparts stores). these are devices that distance the o2 sensors from the direct exhaust flow. the sensors see less exhaust as a result and think that the cats are there and working. can't find 'foolers'? go to an autoparts store and get a couple of sets of 'spark plug savers' ($6/set) - devices designed to distance the spark plug from the combustion chamber to prevent fouling - same thread pattern as the o2 sensors and bungs; drill them out and use them to distance the o2 sensors from the exhaust flow.

4) get a row flash. all piwis devises come with the ability to flash either row or us. you can buy one yourself ($4k) or find a local mechanic who has one and get it done. benefits are (a) start car without depressing the clutch, (b) computer no longer monitors secondary air pump operation, and (c) computer no longer monitors cat effectiveness (ie, no cel with catless headers).

no rockets, no science. we are smarter than the computers in our cars.

I am astonished by the fact that this type of exhaust configuration produced positive results for you . Best of luck.

JD

Do these headers work on a '98 2.5 with Tiptronic?

NOT SURE - I read on another forum somewhere that it's different - clearance issue, you will need to research

hi, I had a 2.7 that I installed a set of header ( B&B)and had lot of problems with cells. I put the same exhaust on a 01 S , 3.2 with a 2.5 cat and extened sensor wires. I also rased fuel pressure .3 bar, the car runs great, +12hp at wheels. PS much better sound and added porsche sport mufler.

Very interesting!


I safety wire the second set of 02's under the car so they can read "fresh air". Never throws a light. The secondary 02's do not effect the tune of the car and are only looking for cat efficiency (as stated above)

I have done this 20-30 times on the 2.5 race cars running the 5.2 ecu and the 7.2 cars (2.7/3.2)

The later 7.8_40 (997/987) does not like this. Porsche actually dumps a ton of full into the system to see if the secondary 02's exist in the system and throw the CEL if they do need read the predetermined amount of fuel. Porsche does this during normal freeway steady state cruisng :(


B

Actually I believe the 7.8 DME was first installed in the 03-04 986 and yes it will throw the cel light (ask me how I know) but some of the header have 2 ports so you can install both o2 and they work fine that way.

Is there such thing as headers that fit a 2.5 TIPTRONIC? My particular car is a '98.

The rest of world program is easily loaded by a PST-2 if you have the DME learning code (must be obtained from a dealer).

RoW flash is no big deal at all if you find someone with a PST2 or PIWIS (I have a PST2) and you get your DME and Immobilizer codes from the dealer.

Any other way you try to make this work on a 2000 or newer car is going to be a mickey mouse fix. You can try O2 simulators, try moving the secondary O2's behind the secondary (well now the only) cats (if you leave them, that is) cats, or just get used to seeing the little yellow lamp lit up (and never knowing if something else is wrong also).

Anyone know if CA smog check accepts ROW flash since it hooks up to OBDII port ?
:chicken:

Hello, I'm new here and I've recently installed a set of Ebay headers on my '00 Boxster S. After just a couple of kilometers (I'm from holland and we use the metric system :p) the CEL went on...

So I got some CELfix pipes that I placed between the rear O2 sensors and the header. These take the sensor out of the exhaust flow and the CEL stayed off

BUT with the CELfix things there's a new problem; when I drive the car and take it above 5500 RPM there's a huge cloud of smoke (I'm pretty sure it's fuel) out of the exhaust. When I let the rev's down the smoke is gone again. I can drive the car at WOT up to 5000 RPM with no problem, but when i get to the highet RPM's the smoke returns...

The weird thing is that the CEL doesn't light up, not even when the smoke starts..

It looks like the thing mentioned above (about the fuel dump to check the catalytic converters) but that's only on 2003 and up cars, and mine is 2000

Does anyone know if the headers are to blame for the smoke??

The engine is all stock and in mint condition and has only 72.000km on it (about 45.000 miles), recently replaced the AOS but that was more a preventive measure.

Seems unlikely. What color is the smoke?

The smoke is light grey and smells like gasoline..

I'm not trying to be a wiseguy, but I'm pretty sure it's gas...

The engine doesn't have any oil in the coolant, coolant level stays the same, no sludge in the oil system. Even the oil filler cap is perfectly clean on the inside. There's no abnormal vacuum on the filler cap or dipstick....

Tomorrow I'll put the stock manifolds (with the catalytic converters) back on and take the car for a drive to see what happens...

The thing is, even if all of the O2 sensors in you system were not working or hooked up, the engine would go to a default factory setting, which is a bit richer than optimal, but not enough to cause smoke.

I've been working on it all day, and I'm pretty sure my NEW AOS is broken...

I didn't check it right away because I thought that it could not be te source of the problem since it was a new part and only about 500 miles old...

The hose to the intake manifold and the pipe on the AOS had zo much oil in it that it started to drip once the hose was disconnected...

Now my question: was I so unlucky to get a broken new part, or did it break because of something else?

Is it possible you overfilled at the last oil change? My first inclination was toward a bad AOS...

Well, I'm pretty precise on those things, so I would say no :p

I already ordered a new AOS @ pelicanparts (somehow it's much cheaper for me to order parts in the US, even with Germany being our neighbour country, and some parts are up to 50% cheaper in the US)

In the pelicanparts forum was something very interesting; There's a PCV valve in the driver side valvecover and one of the two vacuum hoses to the AOS comes from that PCV valve. If this valve gets clogged with oil residu or something, the vacuum on the AOS will rise and result in AOS failure..

There seem to be people that replaced the AOS four or five times in just a few hundred miles before looking any further...

Problem solved!!

I saw someone else on this forum who posted a movie with the very same problem as my car had!

Maybe this is helpfull for him to:

The problem was the oil filler hose... When this gets older the plastic gets hard... My guess is that, when I replaced the AOS, the tube broke when I removed it from the oil filler tube on the engine..

There's a ribbed part in the hpse where it bends... there was a crack in between the ribs.. When the engine was at idle, the tear was closed and the vacuum under the oil filler cap was good, but when the car accellerates the engine somewhat tilts over and opened up the crack. With this, the vacuum dropped and the AOS stopped working, resulting in huge clouds of smoke.

I'm happy I found the problem and the repair only costed 30 euros!

:)