LS1 V8 in a boxster
 

So I know this has come up before. However, recently there has been some good forward motion on this and I was wondering if anyone has any more insight than what i can find on GOOGLE. So i have tracked down some threads but they drop off. I know brad roberts had hooked his up to his sixspeed but was working on the mounting of the engine. But shortly after the thread ends.


here are some pics of the build on this thread.
boxster spec thread on ls1 convert


this is a real interest since I have an older box and is a great contigency plan for IMS failure. or any other :cheers:

I also had been following Brad Robert's V8 conversion thread and was wondering what had happened. It's too bad the Cayenne/Audi engines he originally wanted to fit didn't work out.

This is the thread I had been reading: http://www.914club.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=69069

Brad lives nearby and I have seen the project in various stages. It's a long slow process and the devil is in the details.

I cant wait for this to be completed. It would be a real supercar essentially. Not only that for a fraction of what you would pay for a similar Porsche motor putting down the same power. (disregarding longterm upkeep even)


wonder how much the kit would cost. I wish I could help with it all seems groundbreaking.

I'd drop a LS1 in my car when the motor blows if someone made a kit for it.

Brad, are you listening??????

I want to know if the new 4 cyl turbo that might come out will fit our tranny and mounts. If so I will drop that in and figure out the wiring later.

I was looking through the other thread from a while ago about this and there were alot of haters. it seems maybe some people now see the merit? :cheers:

from what i have heard around the NET is that if they do the 4cyl it may still be just entry level and not meant to compete with the 987S seems childish to me.


they should do it like the 968TS


3.0 4cyl turbo


nice.

Great...a Boxster that sounds like a NASCAR.

I too had been following that thread. The deck height would be an issue, that along with probably screwing up the handling dynamics due to weight / torque. Regarding the sound, my daily driver is a LS1 6 speed and IMO it sounds MUCH better than the 3.2 Boxster, even with a B&B TriFlow exhaust.

I wonder if to help lose some height you could put a dry sump oil system in. that would let you drop the engine at least a couple inches and help with your center of gravity as well.


as far as torque... of course you would need to upgrade suspension a little but I think that if the carrera GT which weighs 3000 lbs and has about 100 more torque than even a well tuned LS1 can handle it. then the boxster should be able to also with some well invested upgrades.





widebody kit anyone? :cheers:

I have become quite familiar with the LSx to porsche G50 inverted transaxle setup through researching the Factory Five GTM. It is a doable conversion but there are numberous issues that you would face trying to shoehorn that big a setup into a chassis as small as the 986. It is very tight in the GTM and it is a much bigger car.

I suggest you go to the Factory Five website and check out some of the eye candy there. I have seen the cars in person and have the assembly manual sitting here on my desk. It is an awesome car with awesome performance. But it is not for the technically meek. There is a whole lot of problem solving and engineering that goes into the build.

Cheers!

the GTM has an LS7 motor in it. I believe much bigger than LS1. Either way Brad has some pics in those original few posts in this thread and it looks like it fits quite well actually. but it is much more tight than with the stock. (obviously)


the factory five guys have some cool toys..


I LOVE the model 65 coupe... dream car. (that and GT40) among many others of course

FYI: All LS variants are based on the same block design. So they are the same size on all naturally aspirated engines with the exception of the ancilaries but those differences are minor. The supercharged versions are taller but clearance is the same in the other dimensions.

I have lots of info on the LS engine family if anyone is interested PM me and I can email it to you.

oh ok my bad! thanks for the info! well that is good news since It opens up more power opportunities.


http://www.vividracing.com/catalog/w...997ttvents.jpg

love it. (except the wheels dont like those)

The LS7 is a 427 cu.in. engine. The 427 has historically been a big block. I know that the LS7 is nothing like the 427 of the past, but I would be very surprised if the LS7 was based on the same block as the LS1/LS2/LS3. The increase in bore and stroke would be really hard on an aluminum block engine.

I hate to burst your bubble but the LS7 is a small block. Like I said I have been up one side and down the other on the LS family and would be happy to share a fact sheet with the willing. Guessing about stuff is useless at least in the forums I am acustomed to, they would eat my lunch on a rover board.

actually sizes info and weights (im guessing factory) would be much appreciated! I do not doubt what you say be it would be nice to be able to actually get a handle on the sizes in real life as opposed to just pictures online.



but brad has fit one with the mounted tranny in a 986 so either way it should be able to happen as far as that is concerned. we will hopefully find out the rest soon.

if he can get a kit going... i know a few Turnkey motors i could possible find a new home for!

imagine the experience of having a big V8 rumbling inches behind you! only a dream for now

:dance:

Sorry to guess Landrovered. Here's some specifics for you.

The LS1 block is part number 12561166.

The LS7 block is part number 17802854.

They might both be small blocks (though I'm not sure what the definition of small block is versus big block with current motors), but they are definitely NOT the same block.

from cruising a few vette forums it seems the LS series are all short block and essentially the same block.

full motor i have seen a LS1 weigh 480ish and I saw some people say their m96 is around 430ish... not bad.

lose some ass fat on the box and you can end up with ur perfect 50/50 no prob. :cheers:

Wouldn't you expect a block with a different bore to have a different part number?

All the LS engines are in the same family. They all share common components whether LS1 or LS9. They have evolved but are essntially the same design. Do you really want to go to the carpet on this one?

Much like the Gen I and II small-blocks, almost all the hardware amongst the different LS variants are interchangeable. In fact, except for the smallest (4.8L) and largest (7.0L) motors in the LS lineup, all share the same 3.622-inch stroke. In most instances, the cylinder heads, camshafts, crankshafts, and intake manifolds can all be mixed between different LS motors.

LS Engines decoded...The Ultimate Guide To Every Gen III And IV Small-Block Ever Built

Actually, 50/50 is not the "ideal" weight distribution, if there is such a thing. WD is a compromise, like everything in automotive design. But for a "sports car", you should have a 55-60% rear weight bias. Manufacturers who quote the "perfect 50/50 weight distribution" do so because that's the best they could do!
Steve

interesting... never heard that about weight distribution. well either way. It wouldnt be hard to maintain or get whatever WD you want.

It's much harder to change than you might think. Which is why no production car that I'm aware of has more than 50% on the rear axle unless it has a mid- or rear- mounted engine. The rearward bias gives more traction for acceleration.

the boxster is. So what im saying is if the extra weight of the LS throws off the the WD. it will not be hard to compensate.

but im pretty sure its more than just traction for acceleration. WD is more about the fundamentals of handling.

Yes, a heavier engine would give more rear weight. Whether that is a problem or not depends on how far back that weight is centered, and by the magnitude of the change. It would be very hard to change, the engine/transmission position is fixed, so what do you move forward to add weight there? Lead bars would add weight to the front, but obviously not be beneficial to overall performance!

I was simplifying on the effects of WD on handling, stating the most important reason, polar moment of inertia is another important benefit af a mid-engine installation. They write whole books on the subject, too much to get into here!

steve

well if its a mere 20 or so lbs some lightweight body panels and what not. and you might be able to kill two birds with one stone and go for some lightweight engine components shed some weight and increase RPMS :) and posibly even flywheel or what have you.

so if the difference is small enough it can be dealt with if it not i can be compensated. and who knows with more power maybe some rear weight wouldnt be bad atl all :cheers:

Nope. But mostly because I really don't care that much.

why cant we be friends!

haha

but I think we can all agree that an LS1 would be a blast in a box :D

http://i749.photobucket.com/albums/x...186/LS2510.jpg


hmmm very nice.

the specs from turn key

An LS1 in a Boxster with a Procharger would be even MORE fun!

Funny sideline about the GM LS series...

Turns out it seems that GM ripped off Ford's FE series motor design. A SBF distributor drops right in when an LS is setup without electronic ignition. The head bolt pattern is a mirror image of Ford's, so much that an aftermarket GM block manufacturer made his block so that either Ford or GM heads would bolt up, and you can even run GM on one side and Ford on the other to line the ports up. The deck height is the same as an FE at 9.2 inches.

I know it's not Porsche, but still interesting if you're into cars. :cheers:

it may not be porsche but we are talking GM motors in a porsche and that is some interesting stuff right there. now the FE series that wouldnt have anything to do with the element letters for Iron would it?

it would. but if this build does come reality i would want as much N/A power as possible. I can picture my wife driving it and some motorhead being like nice boxster. and she would be like ya it is fast it has a V8... and the guy thinking he knows everything and that my wife doesnt know anything about cars would think she is crazy... lol


but it would be funny to see (if you removed the canvas top and did some modifications) put a blower on there and figure out some way for alot of air to reach it (because of the windshied)

haha it would be rediculous having a blower right behind your head sticking out a foot from the boxster. lol

There was a guy that used to run around Carlsbad in a Red Acura NSX. He had a blower on the motor and the motor was exposed just behind his head. It looked really cool but man, that must have been annoying.

lol i know right. It would be approaching hotrod status at that point... ive never heard of a Boxster hot rod but hey being unique is far from a bad thing.

I had to go look that up... it's actually short for "Ford - Edsel" according to the sources I found. The FE series included goodies like the 390, 427 side-oiler and cammer, and the 428 Super Cobra Jet engines. All from back in the day when tire-shredding torque was king.

A Porsche boxer motor at full tilt makes some sweet sounds. A well-built M-code 351 Cleveland @ 7500 rpm doesn't sound bad either! Can you say "Pantera"?

nope i have no problem with the boxer motor we got. BUT i have a soft spot for the sound of american V8s. I wonder how some of these motors would sound with a higher RPM range.

Well, this is about as far away as you can get from a sports car, but this is a strong American V8, a Ford 351 Cleveland, and my ears tell me that's at least 7000 rpm or more. You can go to your local drag strip to hear them at 8-9k. Enjoy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J20IZOSqcHA

that does sound really good.

one of my favorite sounds is the vettes and vipers at LeMans :D :cheers: