SwayBar discussion: Anyone go from M030 to GT3/Tarett?

[Gilles]

Originally Posted by insite

gilles -

the sway bars are not fixed at the center of the car, meaning that when you twist one side, it's countered by the other side. this means that the total torque on the bar = force * (lever arm 1 + lever arm 2) and is the same from side to side. there is no difference between a left turn or a right turn in this respect. just make sure if you do this that you have adjustable sway bar links so you can dial out any pre-load resulting from uneven arm lengths.

Insite;
An interesting topic indeed.. unfortunately I don't have adjustable drop links, I am using the OEM links along with both of the H&R bars and the KW-V3 coilovers.

I like using the stiff setting on the rear bar to help you rotate the car quicker on a tight track, but on a longer track I use the softer rear setting to avoid wheel spin on the inside rear (no LSD either).

I am planning to eventually get the adjustable drop links AND also the adjustable toe links for the rear axle to have the proper toe settings, (the ones that also help you compensate for bump steer) however buying both the drop and toe links is kind of pricey.

Thereafter, a Guard clutch type LSD and a LWFW will follow, it's really easy, all I need is cash...
..ha!

[chaudanova]

Insite, thanks for the feedback and information...

Curious, have you played with the Tarett rear bar at all, or any feedback between that versus the H&R rear?

Also, regarding the different side settings. I definitely learned something today regarding the overall torque on the bars as you discussed. Theoretically, assuming a bar had an even split spread between settings, for example on a 5-setting bar..would running the L/R sides on a middle setting then be the same overall as running one side on full soft, and one side on full stiff? Just curious about the science behind it all.

[chaudanova]

On a side note, if anyone is interested in a rear base M030 19.6mm bar, I have one available.

[sb01box]

Originally Posted by chaudanova

Insite, thanks for the feedback and information...

Curious, have you played with the Tarett rear bar at all, or any feedback between that versus the H&R rear?

Also, regarding the different side settings. I definitely learned something today regarding the overall torque on the bars as you discussed. Theoretically, assuming a bar had an even split spread between settings, for example on a 5-setting bar..would running the L/R sides on a middle setting then be the same overall as running one side on full soft, and one side on full stiff? Just curious about the science behind it all.

I think if you examined the suspension as one side moving up and down while the other side is held, then the difference in the attachment point changes the piviting point as thus the force per angle change in the sway is different.

another way to look at it is if you can remove the springs, then moving one side up and down will induce different vertical motion on the other side. not good.

as for figure of merit on sway bars, I called Tarett and they sent me a table comparing GT3 front and Tarett back versus standard, standard S, M030 and m030 S sway bars as function of drop link attachment points .

[jaykay]

Thanks for the description insite....what I am getting is that the more roll control you have the more weight goes to the outside wheel thus using more and more of the available traction resulting in oversteer.....not sure I understand how throttle will control this as you over load the outside rear more as the weight transfers back althought this common knowledge

[Stroked & Blown]

Originally Posted by sb01box

as for figure of merit on sway bars, I called Tarett and they sent me a table comparing GT3 front and Tarett back versus standard, standard S, M030 and m030 S sway bars as function of drop link attachment points .

Can you post that table here?

[stephen wilson]

There's a fine line between too much power and too little! It also depends on how much torque is available at the rear tires, first gear will have lots, 4th, not so much.

Applying power shifts weight to the rear, adding grip. But nothing is free, acceleration reduces grip available for cornering (lateral acceleration), too much can create "power oversteer". Conversely, if you lift off of the throttle, or apply the brakes, weight (and grip) will shift to the front tires, also causing oversteer.

So, if you get loose while cornering, either maintain your throttle position and counter-steer to correct, or if needed reduce power slightly while still maintaining positive throttle.

[chaudanova]

Not sure if this is the same chart that sb01box has or not, but I'll post the one I have...

Here ya go!

[sb01box]

Originally Posted by chaudanova

Not sure if this is the same chart that sb01box has or not, but I'll post the one I have...

Here ya go!

Yes, the same.

[jaykay]

Originally Posted by stephen wilson

There's a fine line between too much power and too little! It also depends on how much torque is available at the rear tires, first gear will have lots, 4th, not so much.

Applying power shifts weight to the rear, adding grip. But nothing is free, acceleration reduces grip available for cornering (lateral acceleration), too much can create "power oversteer". Conversely, if you lift off of the throttle, or apply the brakes, weight (and grip) will shift to the front tires, also causing oversteer.

So, if you get loose while cornering, either maintain your throttle position and counter-steer to correct, or if needed reduce power slightly while still maintaining positive throttle.

Thanks Stephen......this is great and make sense. I guess It all depends what envelope you analyze.....in this case small throttle changes are in order.............I have over counter steered and reduced throttle drastically on occasion and found myself in a fishtail......very hard to get out of at speed in the wet...

[Stroked & Blown]

Thanks chaudanova, that is great info!